Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: Anchorman on October 16, 2019, 12:56:02 PM
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Just flagging up the fact that a rather remarkable lady is celebrating her 70th birthdy....over fifty of those years confined to a wheelchair due to a diving accident in her teens. Her quadruplegia has not limited her work, and has enhanced her faith. She has written books, hosted radio shows, painted pictures, made music CDs, and leads a charity aiming to provide wheelchairs to disabled folk in the developing world. I've met her three times, and count her as more than a facebook friend. https://www.joniandfriends.org/joni-celebrates-her-70th/?fbclid=IwAR3yYII_jHIVtStcOSljAggdBLqUwDbt-XA_8rIiNsC3dgvD51aPcoGyXZo
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Just flagging up the fact that a rather remarkable lady is celebrating her 70th birthdy....over fifty of those years confined to a wheelchair due to a diving accident in her teens. Her quadruplegia has not limited her work, and has enhanced her faith. She has written books, hosted radio shows, painted pictures, made music CDs, and leads a charity aiming to provide wheelchairs to disabled folk in the developing world. I've met her three times, and count her as more than a facebook friend. https://www.joniandfriends.org/joni-celebrates-her-70th/?fbclid=IwAR3yYII_jHIVtStcOSljAggdBLqUwDbt-XA_8rIiNsC3dgvD51aPcoGyXZo
One could question why her god, if it exists and is so wonderful, didn't look upon her more kindly and heal her?
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One could question why her god, if it exists and is so wonderful, didn't look upon her more kindly and heal her?
my thoughts entirely Lr
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One could question why her god, if it exists and is so wonderful, didn't look upon her more kindly and heal her?
There's more than one kind of healing.
Every time such a thing happens in the New Testament, it's not to show some healing magic, but to illustrate a point.
Even Paul, in his later life, was losing his sight. From the tantalising clues in Acts and a few of his own letters, he may ave been almost blind.
If Christ had a purpose for Paul in his disability, then he can equally use us in ours.
By the way, Joni was a cultural Christian before her accident.
She only accepted Christ AFTER it.
Her sequal to "Joni" - which charts her accident, the depression which followed it, and her coming to Christ, entitled "A step further" is very revealing, showing just how valuable and fruitful her life could be, and would become.
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There's more than one kind of healing.
Every time such a thing happens in the New Testament, it's not to show some healing magic, but to illustrate a point.
Even Paul, in his later life, was losing his sight. From the tantalising clues in Acts and a few of his own letters, he may ave been almost blind.
If Christ had a purpose for Paul in his disability, then he can equally use us in ours.
By the way, Joni was a cultural Christian before her accident.
She only accepted Christ AFTER it.
Her sequal to "Joni" - which charts her accident, the depression which followed it, and her coming to Christ, entitled "A step further" is very revealing, showing just how valuable and fruitful her life could be, and would become.
I feel very sorry for the poor woman. :(
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Why? We do not want your sympathy. Joni certainly wouldn't. You ask why God didn't heal her? Well, here's her own answer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejbHemlrbU4&app=desktop
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Why? We do not want your sympathy. Joni certainly wouldn't. You ask why God didn't heal her? Well, here's her own answer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejbHemlrbU4&app=desktop
anchs
I had to turn it off half way through , absolute bollocks !
Although as someone who also spent 3 months on a Stryker frame I sympathise with her physical pain and suffering and wish her good health in the future
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Joni Eareckson Tada is certainly a remarkable woman who is inspirational to many, not just disabled people. I've felt inspired by her writings in the past and saw the film about her (starring her), mentioned in the first link, some years ago which was thought provoking. Her husband, Ken, is such a good man too, they're a team.
What I didn't know, Anchor, is that she had breast cancer, so far successfully treated but what an ordeal that must have been for her to go through mastectomy and chemo on top of her disability, then a recurrence and more treatment.
I certainly don't see Joni as a 'poor woman'. Can't believe she is seventy!
My personal faith is a 'quieter' one than Joni's but what she has certainly works for her (very American), and I respect that.
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Joni Eareckson Tada is certainly a remarkable woman who is inspirational to many, not just disabled people. I've felt inspired by her writings in the past and saw the film about her (starring her), mentioned in the first link, some years ago which was thought provoking. Her husband, Ken, is such a good man too, they're a team. What I didn't know, Anchor, is that she had breast cancer, so far successfully treated but what an ordeal that must have been for her to go through mastectomy and chemo on top of her disability, then a recurrence and more treatment. I certainly don't see Joni as a 'poor woman'. Can't believe she is seventy! My personal faith is a 'quieter' one than Joni's but what she has certainly works for her (very American), and I respect that.
I first met Joni at a Glasgow conference in the mid 1980s. What struck me wasn't some halo, like a spiritual Colgate ring of confidence; no, what struck me was her infectious sense of humour. We were at a symposium on disability and faith, and Joni was the keynote soeaker that year. I've met her since then, and had conversations by 'phone, etc. She's dealt with the cancer - which has returnwed twice - in the same manner as she dealt with her quadruplegia.
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She has certainly been blessed and it shows in her work. Her parents and siblings were always a great support and, of course, Ken. I wish I'd met her, you were fortunate to do so.
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She has a beautiful voice. One of my favourite songs ever:
https://youtu.be/B26yJeYY8LU
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Yes she is a good singer, very natural country style. That in itself is quite amazing considering her disability, she mentions breathing difficulties in the youtube clip Anchorman posted.
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She has a beautiful voice. One of my favourite songs ever:
https://youtu.be/B26yJeYY8LU
Yes.
Considering the fact that she has no sense of filling her lungs, the whole album "Spirit wings" is remarkable.
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Just flagging up the fact that a rather remarkable lady is celebrating her 70th birthdy....over fifty of those years confined to a wheelchair due to a diving accident in her teens. Her quadruplegia has not limited her work, and has enhanced her faith. She has written books, hosted radio shows, painted pictures, made music CDs, and leads a charity aiming to provide wheelchairs to disabled folk in the developing world. I've met her three times, and count her as more than a facebook friend. https://www.joniandfriends.org/joni-celebrates-her-70th/?fbclid=IwAR3yYII_jHIVtStcOSljAggdBLqUwDbt-XA_8rIiNsC3dgvD51aPcoGyXZo
Thanks for this Anchorman. I read Joni's first book many years ago. It is truly inspiring to know that she is still doing remarkable work and spreading the Gospel. She has achieved far more than she could ever have done if she had not had the tragic diving accident, by being an inspiration to thousands of people. A wonderful witness to how God can bring good from anything if we put our faith and trust in Him.
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One could question why her god, if it exists and is so wonderful, didn't look upon her more kindly and heal her?
One could question why you feel the need to disfigure so many threads with your adolescent, sneering cynicism.
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One could question why you feel the need to disfigure so many threads with your adolescent, sneering cynicism.
That is a good one coming from you, go back and read your posts, many of which aren't very pleasant. ::)
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One could question why you feel the need to disfigure so many threads with your adolescent, sneering cynicism.
Don't get ME started .
Only politeness has kept me silent on this thread !
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Don't get ME started .
Only politeness has kept me silent on this thread !
You have posted on this thread previously.
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There's more than one kind of healing.
Every time such a thing happens in the New Testament, it's not to show some healing magic, but to illustrate a point.
Even Paul, in his later life, was losing his sight. From the tantalising clues in Acts and a few of his own letters, he may ave been almost blind.
If Christ had a purpose for Paul in his disability, then he can equally use us in ours.
By the way, Joni was a cultural Christian before her accident.
She only accepted Christ AFTER it.
Her sequal to "Joni" - which charts her accident, the depression which followed it, and her coming to Christ, entitled "A step further" is very revealing, showing just how valuable and fruitful her life could be, and would become.
I suppose that's all you can do you have to make up elaborate excuses where reason and logic's not present.
It's a pity the poor woman couldn't give out a bit more of a realistic reason for her well meant actions although having said that I have every sympathy for her plight, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Regards, ippy.
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You have posted on this thread previously.
you are right , but only mildly ;)
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Joni is far from being a 'poor' woman, ippy & I am not talking about material riches though she probably has those too. She doesn't need or want you or anyone else to feel sorry for her, she loves her life.
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Joni is far from being a 'poor' woman, ippy & I am not talking about material riches though she probably has those too. She doesn't need or want you or anyone else to feel sorry for her, she loves her life.
I'm sure you knew what was meant by me when I used the word poor, I wouldn't have thought her condition was something that would be described as a welcome disability please tell me what word would you have liked me to use?
Are you telling me that if someone has a disability such as Jonie's, does that mean that I should be required to admire whatever her superstitious belief happens to be and as well as that I'm not exactly corresponding directly with her, I was writing on a blog where she's not present so whatever I think about her penchant for a bit of superstition will hardly be hurting her feelings.
Regards, ippy.
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I would just like to say, and though I don't share her religious convictions, is that she seems like a life enhancer as regards both dealing with her own situation and her impact on others who share her faith: good for her.
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I suppose that's all you can do you have to make up elaborate excuses where reason and logic's not present. It's a pity the poor woman couldn't give out a bit more of a realistic reason for her well meant actions although having said that I have every sympathy for her plight, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Regards, ippy.
In whatt way is she a 'poor woman'? Disabled people require neither sympathy or pity. Many of us use our disability as empowerment, some regard it as a means to share our faith. My own particular disabilities don't bother me as much as they seem to bother others, and if I can use them in some way to share my experience of Knowing Christ and trying to live out His Gospel in my life to someone else, then I can even get to the stage of thankung God for it.
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In whatt way is she a 'poor woman'? Disabled people require neither sympathy or pity. Many of us use our disability as empowerment, some regard it as a means to share our faith. My own particular disabilities don't bother me as much as they seem to bother others, and if I can use them in some way to share my experience of Knowing Christ and trying to live out His Gospel in my life to someone else, then I can even get to the stage of thankung God for it.
Gross generalisation, surely: you can't speak for all disabled people. Some probably regard it as a personal tragedy. How a disability can empower anyone escapes me; I suspect that you are just using a trendy word without thinking about its meaning.
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Gross generalisation, surely: you can't speak for all disabled people. Some probably regard it as a personal tragedy. How a disability can empower anyone escapes me; I suspect that you are just using a trendy word without thinking about its meaning.
Are you really telling Anchorman that he is wrong about his own experience of disability?
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I didn't see any trendy word in Anchor's post, read it three times. We can't walk in the shoes of others Steven. Anchorman has disabilities and is able to lead a useful, happy life, keeping sense of humour and helping others.
If you read some of Joni Eareckson Tada's work and saw the film of her early life, accident and rehabilitation,you'd be amazed. She is very powerful! It wasn't always like that, when she first had her accident at 17 and after some treatment, knew she would be severely handicapped thereafter it was a terrible blow. She had a struggle.
We look at people like her trying to imagine how we would be in her position and it's bleak. I think I'd consider it a personal tragedy and give up, I'm glad it hasn't happened to me so get where you're coming from. However, there's no doubt God used Joni's disability for the greater good. Once she accepted that she moved beyond her own injury, she had work to do and still does. God works through her & has helped her, guiding her towards positive relationships - most of all, her husband. She didn't think she'd have a husband, marriage wasn't on the cards for her & then she met Ken.
Please try to find more information about the lady, you'll be surprised.
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Are you really telling Anchorman that he is wrong about his own experience of disability?
No, I'm saying that he can't generalise from it, and that I can't see how a disability can be empwering. Maybe Anchorman could explain.
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No, I'm saying that he can't generalise from it, and that I can't see how a disability can be empwering. Maybe Anchorman could explain.
That's not just about generalising. So I get that you don't understand what Anchorman is saying but when you say you suspect he is just using a trendy word, it reads like dismissal.
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I didn't see any trendy word in Anchor's post, read it three times. We can't walk in the shoes of others Steven. Anchorman has disabilities and is able to lead a useful, happy life, keeping sense of humour and helping others.
If you read some of Joni Eareckson Tada's work and saw the film of her early life, accident and rehabilitation,you'd be amazed. She is very powerful! It wasn't always like that, when she first had her accident at 17 and after some treatment, knew she would be severely handicapped thereafter it was a terrible blow. She had a struggle.
We look at people like her trying to imagine how we would be in her position and it's bleak. I think I'd consider it a personal tragedy and give up, I'm glad it hasn't happened to me so get where you're coming from. However, there's no doubt God used Joni's disability for the greater good. Once she accepted that she moved beyond her own injury, she had work to do and still does. God works through her & has helped her, guiding her towards positive relationships - most of all, her husband. She didn't think she'd have a husband, marriage wasn't on the cards for her & then she met Ken.
Please try to find more information about the lady, you'll be surprised.
Robbie
before you can make statements like that you will have to prove the existance of god first .
just saying ::)
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I can't prove the existence of God Walter. I was speaking to someone who also believes in God.
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No, I'm saying that he can't generalise from it, and that I can't see how a disability can be empwering. Maybe Anchorman could explain.
I was not generalising.
I help run a club for blind and visually impaired folk, the majority of whom aquire their condition in later life. Some ajust; many do not. People are people.
And I use 'empowering' deliberately.
Yes, like most disabled people, I face discrimination - have done since I started school. Some in my situation crumbled into depression or in one case, suicide. I didn't.#
I never asked "Why me".
Instead, "Why not me?"
And, when things took their first major downturn in the early 1980s, I relied on my faith, trusting God that whatever happened, there was purpose in it. And purpose there was. I could rise above thehealth problems, and realise they don't limit me; I can even use them as a focus for what I need to do.
Like Joni, I can even thank God for the situation I'm in, and that He can still find mischief for me to get up to.
So, yes, 'empowered' is the right word here.
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I was not generalising.
I help run a club for blind and visually impaired folk, the majority of whom aquire their condition in later life. Some ajust; many do not. People are people.
And I use 'empowering' deliberately.
Yes, like most disabled people, I face discrimination - have done since I started school. Some in my situation crumbled into depression or in one case, suicide. I didn't.#
I never asked "Why me".
Instead, "Why not me?"
And, when things took their first major downturn in the early 1980s, I relied on my faith, trusting God that whatever happened, there was purpose in it. And purpose there was. I could rise above thehealth problems, and realise they don't limit me; I can even use them as a focus for what I need to do.
Like Joni, I can even thank God for the situation I'm in, and that He can still find mischief for me to get up to.
So, yes, 'empowered' is the right word here.
Anchs,
what ever gets you through pal . But that god nonsense doesn't do it for me.
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I was not generalising.
I help run a club for blind and visually impaired folk, the majority of whom aquire their condition in later life. Some ajust; many do not. People are people.
And I use 'empowering' deliberately.
Yes, like most disabled people, I face discrimination - have done since I started school. Some in my situation crumbled into depression or in one case, suicide. I didn't.#
I never asked "Why me".
Instead, "Why not me?"
And, when things took their first major downturn in the early 1980s, I relied on my faith, trusting God that whatever happened, there was purpose in it. And purpose there was. I could rise above thehealth problems, and realise they don't limit me; I can even use them as a focus for what I need to do.
Like Joni, I can even thank God for the situation I'm in, and that He can still find mischief for me to get up to.
So, yes, 'empowered' is the right word here.
I can understand why your faith is so important to you and I do not decry it at all. I'm quite sure that this remarkable lady is a source of inspiration and comfort to many, both to those who have severe disabilities and those who haven't. I certainly find such people inspirational.
I hope I may be allowed to mention someone who was also inspirational to me. He had severe disabilities because of his cerebral palsy, and, indeed, spent most of the last twelve years confined to a wheelchair, and had carers to look after him(e.g. dressing, toilet etc.) Despite the obvious problems he had, he managed to hold down a job, got married(unfortunately his wife died some seven years ago), was an active committee member of his local RSPCA(indeed he was invited and went to one of the Queen's tea parties on the strength of his work with this organization), he had an active interest in reading (until he became unable to continue to hold a book successfully) , and his enthusiasms were the Titanic(he had an impressive range of books on the subject) and history, especially Egyptology. He had a sense of humour which was second to none. At his best he had a joy and purpose in life which was plain for all to see even though he had no religious faith of any kind.
Sadly he died some months ago at the age of 77. I can safely say that he had led a very full and positive life despite his disabilities.
He was my wife's brother and he was my friend. I would ask you to read the eulogy which my wife gave at his funeral, which, I think, reflects his hugely positive attitude to life. You will find it here:
http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=16573.0
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In whatt way is she a 'poor woman'? Disabled people require neither sympathy or pity. Many of us use our disability as empowerment, some regard it as a means to share our faith. My own particular disabilities don't bother me as much as they seem to bother others, and if I can use them in some way to share my experience of Knowing Christ and trying to live out His Gospel in my life to someone else, then I can even get to the stage of thankung God for it.
I have to hand it to you Anchor and Robbie you're determined to be offended.
Regards to the pair of you, ippy.
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Thanks for re-posting your wife's eulogy, enki. I remember it when you first posted, it's moving.
I've learned something new on this thread: 'empowering' is a trendy word :-). I had no idea it was, it seems to have been around so long. I looked up 'empowerment' and it is a very old word but has been in common usage since around 1986 (coincidentally the year I married).
I like Anchor's post of 0910 today, sums it up for me. To those who don't share Joni's faith, nobody on this thread has said you should; the opening post wasn't written to evangelise, just to share news about someone of whom many Christians know.
(Just saw ippy's latest post: I'm not in the least offended and doubt Anchorman is either :-).)
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Thanks for re-posting your wife's eulogy, enki. I remember it when you first posted, it's moving.
I've learned something new on this thread: 'empowering' is a trendy word :-). I had no idea it was, it seems to have been around so long. I looked up 'empowerment' and it is a very old word but has been in common usage since around 1986 (coincidentally the year I married).
I like Anchor's post of 0910 today, sums it up for me. To those who don't share Joni's faith, nobody on this thread has said you should; the opening post wasn't written to evangelise, just to share news about someone of whom many Christians know.
(Just saw ippy's latest post: I'm not in the least offended and doubt Anchorman is either :-).)
You both might as well have been, still whatever floats your boat?
Regards to the pair of you
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I didn't see any trendy word in Anchor's post, read it three times. We can't walk in the shoes of others Steven. Anchorman has disabilities and is able to lead a useful, happy life, keeping sense of humour and helping others.
If you read some of Joni Eareckson Tada's work and saw the film of her early life, accident and rehabilitation,you'd be amazed. She is very powerful! It wasn't always like that, when she first had her accident at 17 and after some treatment, knew she would be severely handicapped thereafter it was a terrible blow. She had a struggle.
We look at people like her trying to imagine how we would be in her position and it's bleak. I think I'd consider it a personal tragedy and give up, I'm glad it hasn't happened to me so get where you're coming from. However, there's no doubt God used Joni's disability for the greater good. Once she accepted that she moved beyond her own injury, she had work to do and still does. God works through her & has helped her, guiding her towards positive relationships - most of all, her husband. She didn't think she'd have a husband, marriage wasn't on the cards for her & then she met Ken.
Please try to find more information about the lady, you'll be surprised.
I'm not trying to walk in anybody else's shoes.
Ihave seen Joni's film, and know a fair amount about her. I'm not asenamoured of her as some on here, because I don't like her brand of evangelical Christianity, or her anti-choice stance on euthanasia, but she has certainly taken a positive attitude to her disability, so desreves my grudging admiration, I suppose.
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I too am not keen on her brand of evangelical Christianity, it's not my sort of faith. For example if I knew her I wouldn't be accompanying her to church but, like you, admire how she has turned her disability into something positive, bringing comfort to others.