Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Literature, Music, Art & Entertainment => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on October 17, 2019, 10:31:12 PM
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At least according to the BFI
https://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/news-bfi/lists/best-musical-every-year?utm_content=buffer65d54&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebookbfi&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwAR3KFD9fJdzeYjYK3A-9QS9IRnZh4jV1uZaIiWLZfBPL79qYaZu6p1mnKjI
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Least bad, they mean. Musicals are opera for stupid people.
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Least bad, they mean. Musicals are opera for stupid people.
Whereas opera is musicals for pretentious people, presumably?
O.
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Least bad, they mean. Musicals are opera for stupid people.
As are sweeping generalisations. You seem to be channelling your inner stupid in that post.
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Whereas opera is musicals for pretentious people, presumably?
O.
Yes. I'm not keen on either.
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At least according to the BFI
https://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/news-bfi/lists/best-musical-every-year?utm_content=buffer65d54&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebookbfi&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwAR3KFD9fJdzeYjYK3A-9QS9IRnZh4jV1uZaIiWLZfBPL79qYaZu6p1mnKjI
Somewhat weird selection - largely because they are films, rather than musicals which I'd have considered to be theatre productions.
So it includes many of the Disney films, which certainly include musical numbers but musicals?!?
Also The Wicker Man - a musical - who knew :o
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Yes. I'm not keen on either.
I correct myself. Channelling your inner Floo.
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Somewhat weird selection - largely because they are films, rather than musicals which I'd have considered to be theatre productions.
So it includes many of the Disney films, which certainly include musical numbers but musicals?!?
Also The Wicker Man - a musical - who knew :o
The Wicker Man is certainly an oddity. I mean I know there is music in it and one particular scene with singing was etched in my memory as an adolescent, but can't see it myself.
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I am going to see one of the listed films at the cinema on Monday, A Star is Born, which contains one of the great performances of a song in The Man That Got Away.
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Least bad, they mean. Musicals are opera for stupid people.
If they ever get around to making 'Moaning in the Rain' I'll bet you'd love it, Steve :)
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If they ever get around to making 'Moaning in the Rain' I'll bet you'd love it, Steve :)
I find it quite odd this dismissal of art forms so easily. The dismissal seems to be based on nothing more than personal preference.
I, myself, am not that keen on opera or for that matter, hip hop, but I wouldn't dismiss people as stupid based on my personal preferences. I am aware that some people who are far from stupid like, indeed love opera.
My old music teacher, a wise man called Mr Neaum, said you couldn't categorise classical music as heavyweight and therefore good, and pop(ular) music as lightweight and therefore less good. He thought all forms of music had their place, and that to be sure there is good and bad within each form, but that on a matter so subjective as music it is sensible not to categorise, or even judge, rigidly.
He didn't like much pop music, but thought that "Jambalaya" by The Carpenters was magnificent. I never quite understood that, as it is in my mind one of their weaker tracks, but doesn't that just go to prove his point.
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I am going to see one of the listed films at the cinema on Monday, A Star is Born, which contains one of the great performances of a song in The Man That Got Away.
That one performance totally disproves the idiotic thoughts expressed earlier in the thread. Wish I'd thought of that instead of wittering on. :(
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I know that some people find the idea of people suddenly bursting into song odd but all drama is odd in some sense. One of the most joyous things I have ever attended was a singalong Calamity Jane.
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I find - and it's a personal taste thing - that musical works for children's films, but I'm just not a fan of it in works for grown ups. Mary Poppins is one of my all-time favourites, but I just can't get enthused by West Side Story, Grease, Lala Land, A Star is Born... not my thing, I guess.
O.
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I find - and it's a personal taste thing - that musical works for children's films, but I'm just not a fan of it in works for grown ups. Mary Poppins is one of my all-time favourites, but I just can't get enthused by West Side Story, Grease, Lala Land, A Star is Born... not my thing, I guess.
O.
Mary Poppins is practically perfect in every way.
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I love the 1930/40's musicals best: but then I like the music of that era anyway, and no matter how contrived it all is what isn't to love about Fred and Judy doing 'We're a couple of swells' etc etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3aUAiLU0TI
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Where's the Rocky Horror Show (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umj0gu5nEGs)....?
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I find - and it's a personal taste thing - that musical works for children's films, but I'm just not a fan of it in works for grown ups. Mary Poppins is one of my all-time favourites, but I just can't get enthused by West Side Story, Grease, Lala Land, A Star is Born... not my thing, I guess.
O.
Likewise I'm not really a fan of musicals, or for that matter, opera. I have a innate gut reaction when people who are performing a dram suddenly burst into song. For me the more serious and dramatic the topic the less I get it, so my favourite musicals are those that are the most 'song and dance' type.
I also think that if you are going to write a musical then the music should be memorable in its own right. Certainly many of the musicals of the 50s and 60s are littered with memorable songs that have become hits in their right. So even if I've never actually watched West Side Story, South Pacific or the Sound of Music as musicals (which I think is the case) I'm still really familiar with 'America', 'Wash that man right out of your hair' and 'Doh, ray, me' etc.
But more recently - not so much. I've not seen Les Miserables, or Miss Saigon or Starlight Express (to name 3 blockbuster musicals) either, but I don't think I know a single song from them.
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Where's the Rocky Horror Show (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umj0gu5nEGs)....?
Lost out to Tommy it would appear. Not sure how I feel about that
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try this one , I'm in love (again)
https://youtu.be/Z84F0FIKJio
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I correct myself. Channelling your inner Floo.
I "have a dislike for" musicals, and I'm uninterested in opera, but wouldn't say I dislike it. I don't think that puts me in in LR's dislike-league.
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try this one , I'm in love (again)
https://youtu.be/Z84F0FIKJio
It's quite clever how those mashups are put together. Here's another... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1F0lBnsnkE
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I "have a dislike for" musicals, and I'm uninterested in opera, but wouldn't say I dislike it. I don't think that puts me in in LR's dislike-league.
That's ok. But would you agree that to dismiss all people who like musicals as stupid, is, well, perhaps a bit fucking thick.
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If they ever get around to making 'Moaning in the Rain' I'll bet you'd love it, Steve :)
I haven't seen Steve but can't imagine him charging around a stage, leaping in the air, waving his arms and singing gayly.
Where's the Rocky Horror Show (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umj0gu5nEGs)....?
Quite!
NS, I flinch at the thought of 'The Wicker Man' as a musical. I was traumatised watching the old film on television years ago.
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I haven't seen Steve but can't imagine him charging around a stage, leaping in the air, waving his arms and singing gayly.
Quite!
NS, I flinch at the thought of 'The Wicker Man' as a musical. I was traumatised watching the old film on television years ago.
I think it's more that Steve will cycle round the stage, fall to his knees, turn his palms up, and groan drearily.
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I haven't seen Steve but can't imagine him charging around a stage, leaping in the air, waving his arms and singing gayly.
Quite!
NS, I flinch at the thought of 'The Wicker Man' as a musical. I was traumatised watching the old film on television years ago.
A couple of years ago I saw the stage version of 'Young Frankenstein' as part of the cheap August tickets initiative.
What a mistake.
I really like the film, which apart from the obvious 'Putting on the Ritz' is, I think, blessedly song free. The film is a clever and well crafted comedy satire to the classic 30s horror films. Even the grainy black and white filming seems authentic and I think it was a kind of love letter from Mel Brookes to all those film makers.
So the stage version - for reasons beyond me they'd turned it into a musical - it was painful. All the things that made the film great had been lost and the added songs were woeful. Why, oh why, do theatre producers think that the way to make a play better is to add some rubbish songs.
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Why, oh why, do theatre producers think that the way to make a play better is to add some rubbish songs.
Because 'friends of Dorothy' tend to be a bit 'theatrical'
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"Musicals are opera for stupid people" is a quotation from somewhere-or-other. I admit I was exaggersting to be provocative: some musicals would be very enjoysble, no doubt, if I could be bothered to go and see them. Judging by the brief clips I've seen, Ooooooooooo-klahoma is probably good, and those glitzy Hollywood musicals from the 30s with the sumptuous sert-pieces and Fred Astaire dancing down a roccoco staircase (no-one could tread a stair like Fred Astaire) are quite something. What I can't stand are hundreds of chirpy cockney sparrers swinging off Victorian lamp-posts in cobbled streets to some horrible, jaunty faux-cockney song such as "Fank you very mach" or "wiva little bit of lack", or the insufferably patronising faux-yiddishness of "Fiddler on the roof", possibly the worst musical ever inflicted on humanity.
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"Musicals are opera for stupid people" is a quotation from somewhere-or-other. I admit I was exaggersting to be provocative: some musicals would be very enjoysble, no doubt, if I could be bothered to go and see them. Judging by the brief clips I've seen, Ooooooooooo-klahoma is probably good, and those glitzy Hollywood musicals from the 30s with the sumptuous sert-pieces and Fred Astaire dancing down a roccoco staircase (no-one could tread a stair like Fred Astaire) are quite something. What I can't stand are hundreds of chirpy cockney sparrers swinging off Victorian lamp-posts in cobbled streets to some horrible, jaunty faux-cockney song such as "Fank you very mach" or "wiva little bit of lack", or the insufferably patronising faux-yiddishness of "Fiddler on the roof", possibly the worst musical ever inflicted on humanity.
So when you were exaggerating what did you mean to say?
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So when you were exaggerating what did you mean to say?
Eh? If you mean "what are my true views of musicals", see above post.
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Eh? If you mean "what are my true views of musicals", see above post.
You said when you were exaggerating about people being stupid if they liked musicals, so if it was an exaggeration what were you exaggerating?
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Eh? If you mean "what are my true views of musicals", see above post.
Steve H
did you know?
every true cockney swaggers down the road with his thumbs in his lapels and every third step he jumps in the air and clicks his heels .
its true , I've been there once and seen it
oiy oiy!
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Steve H
did you know?
every true cockney swaggers down the road with his thumbs in his lapels and every third step he jumps in the air and clicks his heels .
its true , I've been there once and seen it
oiy oiy!
Oh so who wrote the known Cockney musicals? That would be Lionel Bart. Where was he from? Stepney. But let's hear the objections from you.
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Oh so who wrote the known Cockney musicals? That would be Lionel Bart. Where was he from? Stepney. But let's hear the objections from you.
objections about what?
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... the known Cockney musicals?
the known Cockney musicals
Are you implying that there are unknown Cockney musicals waiting to be discovered in an attic in Poplar? ;) They aren't like the Dead Sea scrolls.
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That would be Lionel Bart. Where was he from? Stepney.
That would be Oliver! - I guess the other well known Cockney musical is Mary Poppins, written by Russian Jewish brothers from New York and starring an actor from Missouri as Cock-er-ney in chief.
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Steve H
did you know?
every true cockney swaggers down the road with his thumbs in his lapels and every third step he jumps in the air and clicks his heels .
its true , I've been there once and seen it
oiy oiy!
:D
NS - you're being tiresome again. Stop it.
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The fact that Lionel Bart was a cockney himself doesn't alter the fact that his cockney musicals are patronising mockeries of East End life
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Somewhat weird selection - largely because they are films, rather than musicals which I'd have considered to be theatre productions.
Late in the day - I admit - I'm sorry this is so late in the thread.
But what do you expect from a list compiled by the British Film Institute? I agree with your point about cinema versus theatre production. Musical is an abbreviation of musical play.
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Why, oh why, do theatre producers think that the way to make a play better is to add some rubbish songs.
Because 'friends of Dorothy' tend to be a bit 'theatrical'
If Sherlock Holmes used to talk about a 'three pipe problem'?, i suppose your post was a 'six pint wummery'.
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If Sherlock Holmes used to talk about a 'three pipe problem'?, i suppose your post was a 'six pint wummery'.
sir I'm sure I don't know what you mean and no mistake ?
oiy oiy , click
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sir I'm sure I don't know what you mean and no mistake ?
oiy oiy , click
There's a little ditty
They're singing in the city
Ecspecilly when they've been
On the gin
Or the beer
If you've got the patience
Your own imaginations
Will tell you just exactly what you want to hear...
Oom-pah-pah! Oom-pah-pah!
That's how it goes
Oom-pah-pah! Oom-pah-pah!
Ev'ryone knows
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Somewhat weird selection - largely because they are films, rather than musicals which I'd have considered to be theatre productions.
So it includes many of the Disney films, which certainly include musical numbers but musicals?!?
Also The Wicker Man - a musical - who knew :o
Well it's the web site of the BFI. It was always going to be film musicals. I've seen 11 including the Wicker Man which is really not a musical IMO.
I'm a little bit disappointed that The Rocky Horror Picture Show didn't get the nod for 1975. It's way better than Tommy.
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Late in the day - I admit - I'm sorry this is so late in the thread.
But what do you expect from a list compiled by the British Film Institute? I agree with your point about cinema versus theatre production. Musical is an abbreviation of musical play.
But "musical" is also used to denote a genre of film, a category that definitely doesn't include "The Wicker Man".
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I'm a little bit disappointed that The Rocky Horror Picture Show didn't get the nod for 1975. It's way better than Tommy.
As a film perhaps - as music, no way. Currently listening to the version of Tommy on the extended Live at Leeds album (on vinyl of course). Just an amazing piece of music.
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As a film perhaps - as music, no way. Currently listening to the version of Tommy on the extended Live at Leeds album (on vinyl of course). Just an amazing piece of music.
I think Tommy is by far the better film but Rocky Horror is a better film with music. But no argument Tommy as a live band performance is amazing.
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There's a little ditty
They're singing in the city
Ecspecilly when they've been
On the gin
Or the beer
If you've got the patience
Your own imaginations
Will tell you just exactly what you want to hear...
Oom-pah-pah! Oom-pah-pah!
That's how it goes
Oom-pah-pah! Oom-pah-pah!
Ev'ryone knows
jeez that takes me back
3 kids of varying ages , that video must have played every day for 6 years 😤
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They all grew up clicking their heals and talking mockney
One of em became Chas and Dave in later life ! 😂👏👽
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I think Tommy is by far the better film but Rocky Horror is a better film with music. But no argument Tommy as a live band performance is amazing.
The original album studio version is pretty special.
Still have the Live at Leeds version on - what is amazing is their ability to faithfully reproduce the music with just the four of them live on stage - no over-sums, no additional musicians, no backing singers, no synths adding waves of sound - no need for that they could produce the most amazing waves of sound just of the four of them - remarkable.
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I think Tommy is by far the better film but Rocky Horror is a better film with music. But no argument Tommy as a live band performance is amazing.
Saw Rocky Horror for the first time as part of a double bill with Young Frankenstein (see above!) - preferred the latter.
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They all grew up clicking their heals and talking mockney
One of em became Chas and Dave in later life ! 😂👏👽
Rabbit, Rabbit
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Saw Rocky Horror for the first time as part of a double bill with Young Frankenstein (see above!) - preferred the latter.
i hope he was old enough to get in 😝
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i hope he was old enough to get in 😝
;D
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Rabbit, Rabbit
i don't care
I don't care
Got my beer on the side board here
Let muvva sort it artif he comes round here
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Saw Rocky Horror for the first time as part of a double bill with Young Frankenstein (see above!) - preferred the latter.
I take it that it was a late night double feature?
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i don't care
I don't care
Got my beer on the side board here
Let muvva sort it artif he comes round here
Ain't no pleasing you
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I take it that it was a late night double feature?
I think it was a bolt-on
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I take it that it was a late night double feature?
It was in the mid 80s in Aberystwyth - they did double features, late nights ... not so much. They probably wanted Life of Brian on the programme, but it was still banned, and would be for years to come!!
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Coming back to a previous post about people bursting into song being artificial - I can kind of see their point. Some films notably "Cabaret" get around this by setting nearly all the songs within a theatrical setting. The funny thing for me is however, that the most effective and affecting song in Cabaret was the one song set outside the Kit Kat Club, that song being "Tomorrow Belongs to Me". It still makes me shudder to think of that scene.
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Coming back to a previous post about people bursting into song being artificial - I can kind of see their point. Some films notably "Cabaret" get around this by setting nearly all the songs within a theatrical setting. The funny thing for me is however, that the most effective and affecting song in Cabaret was the one song set outside the Kit Kat Club, that song being "Tomorrow Belongs to Me". It still makes me shudder to think of that scene.
It's a brilliant piece of songwriting as it 'feels' like it could be original. Kander and Ebbs are hugely underestimated imffho.
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It's a brilliant piece of songwriting as it 'feels' like it could be original. Kander and Ebbs are hugely underestimated imffho.
imffho?
Wtfdtm ?
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In my far from humble opinion.
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In my far from humble opinion.
😂😂😂
Best musical ??
Sunshine on Leith
Proper tunes !!! Hahaha 👏👏👏
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😂😂😂
Best musical ??
Sunshine on Leith
Proper tunes !!! Hahaha 👏👏👏
As a film musical my favourite is Singin in the Rain, then The Jungle Book, then Cabaret.
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As a film musical my favourite is Singin in the Rain, then The Jungle Book, then Cabaret.
there's summat wrong wi you pal !!!
😝😝😝
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there's summat wrong wi you pal !!!
😝😝😝
It's me being right so often makes me wrong for so many other people.
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It's me being right so often makes me wrong for so many other people.
keep telling it to yourself if it makes you feel good
👽 pal x
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Well it's the web site of the BFI. It was always going to be film musicals. I've seen 11 including the Wicker Man which is really not a musical IMO.
I thought the inclusion of 'The Wicker Man' was bizarre. I saw it many years ago, and don't remember any songs, though there was apparently one sung by kids round a Maypole. They might as well have included 'Reds', for the Russian workers singing the 'Internationale'.
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I would just like to confess, at the risk of being vilified, that I cannot stand 'The Sound of Music', though it is easily avoided.
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keep telling it to yourself if it makes you feel good
👽 pal x
My acolytes do all that for me
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I thought the inclusion of 'The Wicker Man' was bizarre. I saw it many years ago, and don't remember any songs, though there was apparently one sung by kids round a Maypole. They might as well have included 'Reds', for the Russian workers singing the 'Internationale'.
You missed the Britt Ekland song?
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I would just like to confess, at the risk of being vilified, that I cannot stand 'The Sound of Music', though it is easily avoided.
I've never seen 'The Sound of Music' - the film. The nearest I've got is watching a school production of the musical a couple of years ago.
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I thought the inclusion of 'The Wicker Man' was bizarre. I saw it many years ago, and don't remember any songs, though there was apparently one sung by kids round a Maypole. They might as well have included 'Reds', for the Russian workers singing the 'Internationale'.
It has great music - a soundtrack CD was available.
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It has great music - a soundtrack CD was available.
I suspect it still is:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wicker-Man-S-T-Magnet/dp/B07GW6G2NG/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3M1ZY1136ZDAI&keywords=wicker+man+soundtrack&qid=1571520966&sprefix=wicker+man+sou%2Caps%2C169&sr=8-1
But just because a film soundtrack is available doesn't mean the film was a musical - most films release their soundtracks - most aren't musicals.
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I've never seen 'The Sound of Music' - the film. The nearest I've got is watching a school production of the musical a couple of years ago.
prof
I've never seen Star Wars
I think that trumps you 👽
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It has great music - a soundtrack CD was available.
I love this clip from 'Reds', and also the Internationale itself. Maybe it is a musical - I've never seen the whole film.
https://youtu.be/c13q2wYZr_0
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I'm not kidding , there's a woman in the pub tonight with a figure like Marylin Monro
She's turning some heads
I think they've both been dead for the last 50 years 😂😝👍
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prof
I've never seen Star Wars
I think that trumps you 👽
My father had a colleague who swore blind there was a special secret society for people who:
1. Had never seen the sound of music
2. Had never held a driving licence of any sort, including a provisional licence
3. And some other random thing I cannot remember
And having not seen the Sound of Music makes you cool - not having seen Star Wars just makes you a bit odd ;)
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My father had a colleague who swore blind there was a special secret society for people who:
1. Had never seen the sound of music
2. Had never held a driving licence of any sort, including a provisional licence
3. And some other random thing I cannot remember
And having not seen the Sound of Music makes you cool - not having seen Star Wars just makes you a bit odd ;)
odd ?
That's definitely me old chap
Why do you think I live alone traveling from place to place ?
No one can put up with me for more than a few days 😇😇😇
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As a film perhaps
Which is, of course, how we should be judging it given that this is a list of the best film musicals not the best albums.
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Which is, of course, how we should be judging it given that this is a list of the best film musicals not the best albums.
But surely the whole point about a musical is that the music is the key element - the clue is in the name. So I think you can so easily divorce the two. So a musical with the better music inherently starts in a stronger position.
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Which is, of course, how we should be judging it given that this is a list of the best film musicals not the best albums.
... this is a list of the best film musicals randomly chosen films with some music content ...
- fixed :)