Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sriram on December 11, 2019, 04:45:14 AM
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Hi everyone,
Anyone want to live past 100...?! Here are the rules....
https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p07xdbyb/four-japanese-rules-to-live-past-100
Speaking for myself, I don't want to live beyond 80. Only 13 more years to go. Don't know what will actually happen, of course! :-\
Cheers.
Sriram
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Speaking for myself, I don't want to live beyond 80.
You wait until you get there - you'll think differently.
If you are fit and healthy, and if you are able to afford to live as you wish, why put a limit on your length of life?
For some people 80 is the new 60.
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As long as I am healthy mentally and physically, I would like to live as long as possible.
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I can't recall where I read it, but there was an article I saw earlier this year that suggested - in the developed world, at least - that although we were incrementally increasing the average lifespan still, we hadn't significantly improved the age at which we become infirm for the last twenty years, resulting in people spending longer in care and dependency before they die.
I won't know for sure until I get there, really, I think it's one of those areas in life where the reality of it being actually there probably alters your thinking but from where I sit now: I don't think I want to spend years being spoon-fed and cleaned up, that's not a dignified or rewarding life. I know that not all care is that extreme, but I'm also not sure at what point the lack of self-dependency would become an issue.
O.
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As the multitude that is me, I am aware that some of the constituent parts of me think that at some stage they will reach a point where George Sanders suicide note will apply:
'Dear World, I am leaving because I am bored. I feel I have lived long enough. I am leaving you with your worries in this sweet cesspool. Good luck.'
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...... or perhaps your boredom will resolved by spending your years along the lines of 'Elizabeth is Missing'.
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...... or perhaps your boredom will resolved by spending your years along the lines of 'Elizabeth is Missing'.
My father spent the last two years of his life slowly dissolving as we watched. Once in a lucid time he wrote a scrawled note to my mother on a piece of paper ripped from medication he was on to help deal with some of the affects of the strokes that were exacerbating his dementia. In it he asked for forgiveness for what he was doing when he was not lucid, he had some perception of it as through a glass, darkly. When he died, it was a relief for everyone. I think in part Sanders boredom was the thought of that slow dissolution.
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Whatever anyone, healthy or not, might want, there is no right of choice in how to go in most countries.
People should be demanding such a right.
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My father spent the last two years of his life slowly dissolving as we watched. Once in a lucid time he wrote a scrawled note to my mother on a piece of paper ripped from medication he was on to help deal with some of the affects of the strokes that were exacerbating his dementia. In it he asked for forgiveness for what he was doing when he was not lucid, he had some perception of it as through a glass, darkly. When he died, it was a relief for everyone. I think in part Sanders boredom was the thought of that slow dissolution.
Yes, this seems to be an increasingly familiar story. I suppose that in the past, before the vast closures of mental hospitals, there was less publicity of such end of life stories.
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Yes, this seems to be an increasingly familiar story. I suppose that in the past, before the vast closures of mental hospitals, there was less publicity of such end of life stories.
I think it's more that people live longer, I doubt that my father would have been in a mental asylum in the past as he wouldn't have been seen as a danger to himself.
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The Bible says that the normal life-span is 70, or 80 if you're lucky, and that hasn't really changed since.
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The Bible says that the normal life-span is 70, or 80 if you're lucky, and that hasn't really changed since.
That's not life expectancy though
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A French woman is the oldest person whose age can be verified, she was 122 when she died.
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That's not life expectancy though
Life expectancy figures can be very misleading. If they are based on average length of life, the average is pulled down by those who die in infancy and early childhood, which even today in the rich West is a significant factor, since a proportion of children will die early of genetic conditions. If, however, you make it out of your teens, your life expectancy, if you are fit, is much higher. In the past, of course, infant and child mortality was much higher, so when you read, as I have just done having googled, that life expectancy in 1800 was 40, that has to be taken into account. If you were 20 in 1800, and reasonably fit, you could expect to live to a reasonable age. Now, life-expectancy is 77 for men, and 81 for women, but if a man makes it to 77, he is not about to hand in his dinner-pail necessarily: the very fact of having made it to that age is itself a positive factor in weghing up life expectancy, so his life-expectancy then will probably be another few years. (I don't know whether the figures of 77 and 81 for today are adjusted to take account of infant deaths.)
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The Bible says that the normal life-span is 70, or 80 if you're lucky, and that hasn't really changed since.
The Bible also says that grasshoppers have four legs, so.... as a biology text-book it's at least 'questionable'.
O.
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Life expectancy figures can be very misleading. If they are based on average length of life, the average is pulled down by those who die in infancy and early childhood, which even today in the rich West is a significant factor, since a proportion of children will die early of genetic conditions. If, however, you make it out of your teens, your life expectancy, if you are fit, is much higher. In the past, of course, infant and child mortality was much higher, so when you read, as I have just done having googled, that life expectancy in 1800 was 40, that has to be taken into account. If you were 20 in 1800, and reasonably fit, you could expect to live to a reasonable age. Now, life-expectancy is 77 for men, and 81 for women, but if a man makes it to 77, he is not about to hand in his dinner-pail necessarily: the very fact of having made it to that age is itself a positive factor in weghing up life expectancy, so his life-expectancy then will probably be another few years. (I don't know whether the figures of 77 and 81 for today are adjusted to take account of infant deaths.)
Yes, agree with all of this. My point was the three score and ten idea was a sort of maximum rather than an average. Anyway one other thing is the question of quality of life and one stat that's scary is that between 2 constituencies in and around Glasgow, the difference in average expected healthy years for men is 23 years.
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My intention is to try to ensure I have enough money to be able to go to Switzerland to die with dignity once life becomes burdensome. Obviously my plans may be scuppered by another few years of Tory rule, I might have to blow my death-with-dignity-savings on a small loaf before I'm infirm, but that's my goal. I've thought of other exit strategies in extremis, but of course all of those would possibly affect other people badly. Age is not relevant to my plans.
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A French woman is the oldest person whose age can be verified, she was 122 when she died.
Which was always cited by 1 BBC poster as a reason why the Bible was wrong as it contravened Genesis 6:3 'Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”
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Life expectancy figures can be very misleading. If they are based on average length of life, the average is pulled down by those who die in infancy and early childhood, which even today in the rich West is a significant factor, since a proportion of children will die early of genetic conditions. If, however, you make it out of your teens, your life expectancy, if you are fit, is much higher. In the past, of course, infant and child mortality was much higher, so when you read, as I have just done having googled, that life expectancy in 1800 was 40, that has to be taken into account. If you were 20 in 1800, and reasonably fit, you could expect to live to a reasonable age. Now, life-expectancy is 77 for men, and 81 for women, but if a man makes it to 77, he is not about to hand in his dinner-pail necessarily: the very fact of having made it to that age is itself a positive factor in weghing up life expectancy, so his life-expectancy then will probably be another few years. (I don't know whether the figures of 77 and 81 for today are adjusted to take account of infant deaths.)
Those are life-expectancy figure from birth I think. Try http://www.riskprediction.org.uk/index_lifeexp.php
for expectancy from a given age (in the UK).
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Which was always cited by 1 BBC poster as a reason why the Bible was wrong as it contravened Genesis 6:3 'Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”
Another wrong statement made by the not so good book, many Biblical characters supposedly lived a lot longer, old Methuselah was getting on for 1000 when he popped his clogs, like as if! :o
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Those are life-expectancy figure from birth I think. Try http://www.riskprediction.org.uk/index_lifeexp.php
for expectancy from a given age (in the UK).
According to that, I casn expect to make it to 84. Sorry, everyone: you'll have to put up with me for another 16 years.
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Another wrong statement made by the not so good book, many Biblical characters supposedly lived a lot longer, old Methuselah was getting on for 1000 when he popped his clogs, like as if! :o
This proclamation came after all those old geezers
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I can assure anyone who's interested that being fit, able to walk without pain, breathe without wheezing,, and able to live independently is absolutely worth aiming for. Start thinking about and doing the correct eating and moving years before.
Don't think that, just because your heart may not want to let you walk briskly, you should stay at home. Get out there and start slowly, taking a few moments rest here and there, and you'll find that you'll become able after a while to keep going for further than you thought.
Fortunately, I have quite a few friends locally, and others who live too far away to see more than very occasionally, but I do not want to be the last to go. In view of my heart - the new valve is now six and a half years old - I don't think this will happen, but I'll certainly try to make the most of my time until then.
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You wait until you get there - you'll think differently.
If you are fit and healthy, and if you are able to afford to live as you wish, why put a limit on your length of life?
For some people 80 is the new 60.
The survival instinct will probably keep doing its job even at 80 and beyond.....but lot depends on ones view of life. If we think of Life as a one time 'gift by chance' we would probably want to live as long as possible and make the most of it.
But I don't think that way. I am actually waiting to move on to the next stage. 'Been there done that'. I feel quite fulfilled and satisfied. Ready to go any minute. :D
I don't want to prolong my life unnecessarily. I have at least half a dozen relatives who are 90 and beyond. All of them are fairly healthy and walking around...but I personally find it pointless.
80 years should be enough, I think...though what my Higher Self (Unconscious mind..Common Consciousness...Paramatma...whatever) will decide, I have no idea. :-\
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The survival instinct will probably keep doing its job even at 80 and beyond.....but lot depends on ones view of life. If we think of Life as a one time 'gift by chance' we would probably want to live as long as possible and make the most of it.
But I don't think that way. I am actually waiting to move on to the next stage.
every moment spent thinking or believing that there is another life to go to, something where you will be aware etc, is a moment of this life which you could have spent learning a new fact about the brain and how it works, helping the realistic, scientific world to educate believers in mythical, entirely faith beliefs, and to learn that if they understand the difference between fact and not fact, then they will have a far greater appreciation and understanding of the brain they have had since birth and use it in more fulfilling and creative ways.
'Been there done that'. I feel quite fulfilled and satisfied. Ready to go any minute. :D
A light-hearted statement and I have a similar outlook and feeling now, but my acceptance of my going is an understanding that that is the way of life and death and that memory of me will fade into the past as it should.
I don't want to prolong my life unnecessarily. I have at least half a dozen relatives who are 90 and beyond. All of them are fairly healthy and walking around...but I personally find it pointless.
80 years should be enough, I think...though what my Higher Self (Unconscious mind..Common Consciousness...Paramatma...whatever) will decide, I have no idea. :-
Well, that's not surprising! There is of course zero evidence for any 'higher self, some sort of 'mind' *out there somewhere* and it is self-delusion to believe there is. Yes, I would not have been annoyed if I had not reached 80 - it is only because of medical knowledge and practice that I have nearly reached 84.
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My great aunt made it to 104. The brave lady who saved 2 year old me from a horse and cart, which bolted towards me in 1952 is 102, she still has all her marbles. :)
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I don't want to prolong my life unnecessarily. I have at least half a dozen relatives who are 90 and beyond. All of them are fairly healthy and walking around...but I personally find it pointless.
I am fit and (as far as I know) in good health. I work out in the gym every morning and go for walks with friends at weekends. I have a good social life. I belong to a number of organisations to whom I give illustrated talks about aspects of life and culture that are important to me. OK, I am widowed (effectively twice) and live alone. I enjoy travelling and visiting family members. I have four grandchildren whose transition from infancy to adulthood fascinates me. I enjoy films, theatre and concerts - finding them entertaining and stimulating. My life - in many respects - is fulfilling.
In less than two years time I shall be 80. Are you telling me that my life is pointless?
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I am fit and (as far as I know) in good health. I work out in the gym every morning and go for walks with friends at weekends. I have a good social life. I belong to a number of organisations to whom I give illustrated talks about aspects of life and culture that are important to me. OK, I am widowed (effectively twice) and live alone. I enjoy travelling and visiting family members. I have four grandchildren whose transition from infancy to adulthood fascinates me. I enjoy films, theatre and concerts - finding them entertaining and stimulating. My life - in many respects - is fulfilling.
In less than two years time I shall be 80. Are you telling me that my life is pointless?
No...I am saying that I would find it pointless to live beyond 80. You are free to feel as you want. I would not find any of the things that you list above as fulfilling, beyond a point.
I too watch movies, eat at restaurants, go for walks, spend time with my wife and children, travel around. These are just 'time pass'. Not 'fulfilling' for me.
'Had enough....no more of the same needs/desires surfacing again and again endlessly'.....is what I consider as fulfilling.
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I am fit and (as far as I know) in good health. I work out in the gym every morning and go for walks with friends at weekends. I have a good social life. I belong to a number of organisations to whom I give illustrated talks about aspects of life and culture that are important to me. OK, I am widowed (effectively twice) and live alone. I enjoy travelling and visiting family members. I have four grandchildren whose transition from infancy to adulthood fascinates me. I enjoy films, theatre and concerts - finding them entertaining and stimulating. My life - in many respects - is fulfilling.
In less than two years time I shall be 80. Are you telling me that my life is pointless?
That's a great post. And in addition you are a much appreciated member of a vibrant messageboard filled with different characters! ;)
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A sign of old age is when you can't open the childproof top of your medicine bottle.
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'Had enough....no more of the same needs/desires surfacing again and again endlessly'.
I'm sorry you've decided to leave the forum, Sriram.
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No...I am saying that I would find it pointless to live beyond 80. You are free to feel as you want. I would not find any of the things that you list above as fulfilling, beyond a point.
I too watch movies, eat at restaurants, go for walks, spend time with my wife and children, travel around. These are just 'time pass'. Not 'fulfilling' for me.
'Had enough....no more of the same needs/desires surfacing again and again endlessly'.....is what I consider as fulfilling.
I'm with Harrowby all the way on this one. I suppose it's all about one's genes make up and cultural influences. For me, I'm naturally curious about the world and simply want to be immersed in life as far as I am able. I'm nearly 79, and had two new hips this year. Both operations have been supremely successful, I'm back walking, cycling and dancing and I can't wait to get back into some foreign birding again. Cambodia and Vietnam look most attractive at the moment.
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Oh...oh. I think all those who are approaching 80 or past it, seem to feel that I have a problem with their age.
No. I apologize if anyone feels that I am commenting adversely about older people who are 80 or beyond.
I wish all of you a long life as much as you may want. :)
I was speaking about the impression among many people that living long is somehow a 'good' think in itself. I don't think so. I would rather move on to the next stage after a reasonable time.
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There is no "next stage" ?
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Oh...oh. I think all those who are approaching 80 or past it, seem to feel that I have a problem with their age.
Certainly not. Anyway, it does not matter if you have a problem with our ages, as we don't bother to think that way.
No. I apologize if anyone feels that I am commenting adversely about older people who are 80 or beyond.
Same response as I've just written.
I wish all of you a long life as much as you may want. :)
Unlless you have a good reason for supposing that you will not live beyond 80, I suggest you have a re-think about your idea that you don't want to live beyond that age!
I was speaking about the impression among many people that living long is somehow a 'good' think in itself. I don't think so. I would rather move on to the next stage after a reasonable time.
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How wide has been your survey of 'many people'? I shall be quite surprised if, whenif you get to being 79, you have not realised that actually the end of your life is going to be the end, ! :)
[/quote]
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I was speaking about the impression among many people that living long is somehow a 'good' think in itself. I don't think so. I would rather move on to the next stage after a reasonable time.
I'd certainly agree with you that a long life is not necessarily a good thing in itself. But I'm intrigued as to what you think your 'next stage' is likely to be. Presumably you're assuming it will turn out to be a move up the spiritual career ladder and not a helter skelter down some slippery snake to one of the many hell realms available courtesy of the Atman Relocation Service. I don't really expect an answer from you but one lives in hope.
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I'd certainly agree with you that a long life is not necessarily a good thing in itself. But I'm intrigued as to what you think your 'next stage' is likely to be. Presumably you're assuming it will turn out to be a move up the spiritual career ladder and not a helter skelter down some slippery snake to one of the many hell realms available courtesy of the Atman Relocation Service. I don't really expect an answer from you but one lives in hope.
:D I don't know why some of you are going into a tizzy about my views regarding 'moving on to the next stage'. Don't worry about it.
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:D I don't know why some of you are going into a tizzy about my views regarding 'moving on to the next stage'. Don't worry about it.
Tizzy? Just interested, Sriram. Genuinely. And genuinely sorry you so predictably declined to answer my question. Strange that you seem to regard people taking an interest in you as odious. Most people quite like it.
On the matter of reincarnation it's long fascinated me how those who are attracted to the idea invariably see themselves as enjoying felicitous future lives whereas the many dungeons of the soul talked about in their religion are apparently just for other people. One might be forgiven for detecting the subtle odour of spiritual pride, not to mention a rather obvious lapse of attention during the teachings on karma.
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Tizzy? Just interested, Sriram. Genuinely. And genuinely sorry you so predictably declined to answer my question. Strange that you seem to regard people taking an interest in you as odious. Most people quite like it.
On the matter of reincarnation it's long fascinated me how those who are attracted to the idea invariably see themselves as enjoying felicitous future lives whereas the many dungeons of the soul talked about in their religion are apparently just for other people. One might be forgiven for detecting the subtle odour of spiritual pride, not to mention a rather obvious lapse of attention during the teachings on karma.
Its nice that you are interested, Bramble. In this thread I just wanted to share the video about living beyond 100 and to get peoples views about it.
The discussion about my philosophy of life has been going on for many years hereon. By now you should have some idea of it.
About Karma, here is my view...
https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2019/10/19/karma/
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Thanks for that, Sriram, but you could simply have answered my earlier question, which is all I wanted from you. I am merely left wondering what you might be trying to hide.
I do, of course, have some idea of your philosophy from reading your posts. I have even strayed onto your website. But I have often been frustrated by your serial evasion of questions, particularly where they relate to your good self. You do seem to want to control the conversation rather than respect the interests of other people who might want to take it other places. Again, I am left wondering why you feel the need to do this. It genuinely puzzles me why, when I have tried to take an interest in your view on something, you almost always ignore my questions, even entire posts that I have written.
This is a forum intended for the debate of spiritual matters which are of necessity about personal experience. You know this perfectly well and frequently encourage others to engage in yogas and so forth, yet we never hear anything about your spiritual practice (as distinct from your beliefs). Why is that? I can appreciate why people might be shy about divulging too much of their personal life when this place (bizarrely) can seem quite hostile to anything resembling spirituality, but it seems to me that the subject matter simply becomes moribund when divorced from personal experience. For that reason I find most of the activity here of limited interest, especially when it so often ends up as 'science vs woo' squabble. Anyway, it remains your choice what you want to say here. Genuinely sorry we couldn't talk.
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:D I don't know why some of you are going into a tizzy about my views regarding 'moving on to the next stage'. Don't worry about it.
What makes you think that any of us are doing any worrying about your delusion?!!
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Oh...oh. I think all those who are approaching 80 or past it, seem to feel that I have a problem with their age.
No. I apologize if anyone feels that I am commenting adversely about older people who are 80 or beyond.
I wish all of you a long life as much as you may want. :)
I was speaking about the impression among many people that living long is somehow a 'good' think in itself. I don't think so. I would rather move on to the next stage after a reasonable time.
For those of us who don't think there is a 'next step' to move onto, this is a little more significant of an issue; on the one hand you have but one life to live, so it feels disturbing to be wishing it away, but on the other hand there's a sense of a quality of life threshold that if it's not being met then it's almost as though you're dying slowly rather than living longer.
I suspect, the closer I get to that threshold, the lower I'll feel like setting the bar :)
O.
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Thanks for that, Sriram, but you could simply have answered my earlier question, which is all I wanted from you. I am merely left wondering what you might be trying to hide.
I do, of course, have some idea of your philosophy from reading your posts. I have even strayed onto your website. But I have often been frustrated by your serial evasion of questions, particularly where they relate to your good self. You do seem to want to control the conversation rather than respect the interests of other people who might want to take it other places. Again, I am left wondering why you feel the need to do this. It genuinely puzzles me why, when I have tried to take an interest in your view on something, you almost always ignore my questions, even entire posts that I have written.
This is a forum intended for the debate of spiritual matters which are of necessity about personal experience. You know this perfectly well and frequently encourage others to engage in yogas and so forth, yet we never hear anything about your spiritual practice (as distinct from your beliefs). Why is that? I can appreciate why people might be shy about divulging too much of their personal life when this place (bizarrely) can seem quite hostile to anything resembling spirituality, but it seems to me that the subject matter simply becomes moribund when divorced from personal experience. For that reason I find most of the activity here of limited interest, especially when it so often ends up as 'science vs woo' squabble. Anyway, it remains your choice what you want to say here. Genuinely sorry we couldn't talk.
Frankly....I don't think I want to discuss my personal experiences in this forum. I don't think it is even necessary....and nor do I think anyone will appreciate or understand what I write.
My ideas and philosophies flow from my experiences and discussing these ideas should be enough. Moreover, this forum has more atheists than anyone else. So I think discussing the inter-phase between Science and my brand of spirituality would be more useful both for me and for the members of this forum.
I myself am interested in understanding how my experiences and ideas of spirituality tie in with science and its discoveries. They can't be two separate worlds. I believe there has to some link and common ground where they meet. These grey areas are what I am looking for. This is why I write here in spite of so much opposition. My website is in fact an outcome of this interest that I have.
Anyway...this thread is not for this discussion. More on this some other time.
Thanks & cheers, Bramble :)
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For those of us who don't think there is a 'next step' to move onto, this is a little more significant of an issue; on the one hand you have but one life to live, so it feels disturbing to be wishing it away, but on the other hand there's a sense of a quality of life threshold that if it's not being met then it's almost as though you're dying slowly rather than living longer.
I suspect, the closer I get to that threshold, the lower I'll feel like setting the bar :)
O.
Yes...that is my point. If we think we have only one life to live...we would naturally make the most of it. That is fine.
People who believe in an after life or another life once again...their view of death would be very different. Why hang around here eating and drinking and doing the same old again and again...when we can move on to better things?!
It is obviously true that the longer we live, the longer our old age is. We prolong old age not youth. Even assuming that one is fairly youthful...how long could we keep doing the same things and feel fulfilled...knowing fully well that we will be popping off sooner than later....and more so when our loved ones are likely to be going away one by one?
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I myself am interested in understanding how my experiences and ideas of spirituality tie in with science and its discoveries. They can't be two separate worlds. I believe there has to some link and common ground where they meet. These grey areas are what I am looking for.
But that is youre personal incredulity. Have you investigated what this probability means?
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Anyway...this thread is not for this discussion.
Except that you did bring up the subject of 'moving on to the next stage' but now refuse to discuss it. Anyway, if you should come back as my pet cat be sure to let me know and I promise to put you on a vegan diet. ;D
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Why hang around here eating and drinking and doing the same old again and again...when we can move on to better things?!
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So... is sitting around twiddling your thumbs and getting bored part of your actions towards good karma or the result of previous bad karma?
If there is a grand scheme for life, why would it continue if it was no longer necessary or useful?
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So... is sitting around twiddling your thumbs and getting bored part of your actions towards good karma or the result of previous bad karma?
If there is a grand scheme for life, why would it continue if it was no longer necessary or useful?
Yes...and that's why I said that my Higher Self or Paramatma will decide when I should leave my body. This would be based on karmic issues.
I was only stating my preference and my view that a long life (past 100) is not necessarily attractive to everyone.
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:D I don't know why some of you are going into a tizzy about my views regarding 'moving on to the next stage'. Don't worry about it.
It's more care about your welfare Sriram, not so much that we're tizzing about.
You seem to have this impulse to pull against logical and the reasoned out way of thinking and apparently want to dive head first into the 'twilight zone' where all of the woo's thriving and evidential thinking is repulsed out of the picture at all costs.
It's just such a shame to see an otherwise, on the whole, intelligent good forum friend going away down to this illogical dead end.
So in effect you could look on our responses as though we're trying to save you.
Regards and a happy Newton's day, ippy.
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Sririam:- "Had enough....no more of the same needs/desires surfacing again and again endlessly'.....is what I consider as fulfilling."
I totally get that sririam, felt something like it (by whichI mean not exactly), myself most of this year.
This is an interesting thread; I don't want to live past 100 but I would like to be a bit more lively right now and for next few years while I'm still fit and well. I've lost interest in many things & gone quiet' (my sis described me as having gone quiet cheeky woman).
Regardless of whether or not a person believes in an afterlife it's alwasy been my view that we should make the most of this life and the wonderful world, with all its flaws, in which we live.
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It's more care about your welfare Sriram, not so much that we're tizzing about.
You seem to have this impulse to pull against logical and the reasoned out way of thinking and apparently want to dive head first into the 'twilight zone' where all of the woo's thriving and evidential thinking is repulsed out of the picture at all costs.
It's just such a shame to see an otherwise, on the whole, intelligent good forum friend going away down to this illogical dead end.
So in effect you could look on our responses as though we're trying to save you.
Regards and a happy Newton's day, ippy.
Thanks for your kind words, ippy. :)
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Sririam:- "Had enough....no more of the same needs/desires surfacing again and again endlessly'.....is what I consider as fulfilling."
I totally get that sririam, felt something like it (by whichI mean not exactly), myself most of this year.
This is an interesting thread; I don't want to live past 100 but I would like to be a bit more lively right now and for next few years while I'm still fit and well. I've lost interest in many things & gone quiet' (my sis described me as having gone quiet cheeky woman).
Regardless of whether or not a person believes in an afterlife it's alwasy been my view that we should make the most of this life and the wonderful world, with all its flaws, in which we live.
Robbie
I am glad at least someone gets what I am saying...! :)
I am of the view that satisfying our needs and desires is not fulfillment. That is an endless effort. Having no needs and desires or minimizing them, is what leads to fulfillment.
I agree that living a full life and being happy on a day to day basis is more important than living long.
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" one life -live it"
That's all there is to say !
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Robbie
I am glad at least someone gets what I am saying...! :)
I am of the view that satisfying our needs and desires is not fulfilment. That is an endless effort. Having no needs and desires or minimising them, is what leads to fulfilment.
I agree that living a full life and being happy on a day to day basis is more important than living long.
So much for having the desire to do good?
In my case I would like to think I've contributed to making the world a little bit of a better place than it was when I entered, hopefully due to my efforts over the few years I've managed to spend here.
Regards, ippy.
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So much for having the desire to do good?
In my case I would like to think I've contributed to making the world a little bit of a better place than it was when I entered, hopefully due to my efforts over the few years I've managed to spend here.
Regards, ippy.
thank you , St ippy 😇
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I don't get you ippy. You say:- So much for having the desire to do good?
Living a happy (as far as possible, no one is happy all the time), fulfilling life includes doing good, I doubt many of us would be happy and fulfilled if we were mean spirited & cared nothing about others, social issues etc. If we take care of ourselves we are better equipped to care for other people. Does that make sense to everyone else? It has little to do with belief in an afterlife.
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I don't get you ippy. You say:- So much for having the desire to do good?
Living a happy (as far as possible, no one is happy all the time), fulfilling life includes doing good, I doubt many of us would be happy and fulfilled if we were mean spirited & cared nothing about others, social issues etc. If we take care of ourselves we are better equipped to care for other people. Does that make sense to everyone else? It has little to do with belief in an afterlife.
It certainly makes sense to me. :) I am far from being any kind of saint, that is for sure, but I do get satisfaction from helping others when I can.
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So much for having the desire to do good?
In my case I would like to think I've contributed to making the world a little bit of a better place than it was when I entered, hopefully due to my efforts over the few years I've managed to spend here.
Regards, ippy.
There is a somewhat subtle issue here. Needs and desires are natural...including the desire to help and be a useful member of society. There is however a hierarchy of needs and desires.
During spiritual practice we try to eliminate that part which is selfish and increase that part which is selfless. But after a point of time we realize that life is largely destiny and predetermined. The desire to help itself becomes an obstacle....not very different from other desires.
So, the ego attached to helping others needs to get eliminated. Helping becomes spontaneous, not a desire anymore.
That is when fulfillment is reached.
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thank you , St ippy 😇
I'm not looking for Sainthood but if you insist Walter :D :D :D
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I don't get you ippy. You say:- So much for having the desire to do good?
Living a happy (as far as possible, no one is happy all the time), fulfilling life includes doing good, I doubt many of us would be happy and fulfilled if we were mean spirited & cared nothing about others, social issues etc. If we take care of ourselves we are better equipped to care for other people. Does that make sense to everyone else? It has little to do with belief in an afterlife.
Robbie,
Can't say I think I've written anything that outrageous, or even anything giving a hint I might be considered to be one of those obnoxious holier than thou brigade members.
Do you mean people in general can't have kindly thoughts toward their fellow persons unless the individuals happen to be a religioso based type person?
ippy.
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There is a somewhat subtle issue here. Needs and desires are natural...including the desire to help and be a useful member of society. There is however a hierarchy of needs and desires.
During spiritual practice we try to eliminate that part which is selfish and increase that part which is selfless. But after a point of time we realize that life is largely destiny and predetermined. The desire to help itself becomes an obstacle....not very different from other desires.
So, the ego attached to helping others needs to get eliminated. Helping becomes spontaneous, not a desire anymore.
That is when fulfillment is reached.
Look up ' Medecins Sans Frontieres' Sriram, helping people anywhere in the world without the expectation of gaining any sort of heavenly 'Brownie Points', it justifiably could hold up a two finger salute to any faith based charity you may wish to mention and it fits your remit, like a glove.
Regards, ippy.
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Look up ' Medecins Sans Frontieres' Sriram, helping people anywhere in the world without the expectation of gaining any sort of heavenly 'Brownie Points', it justifiably could hold up a two finger salute to any faith based charity you may wish to mention and it fits your remit, like a glove.
Regards, ippy.
Medicines sans frontiers is one of a number of charities we support, they do a good job. :)
Btw I suggest St Ippy's day is January 31st, you being the patron saint of Brexit. :P ;D
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Medicines sans frontiers is one of a number of charities we support, they do a good job. :)
Btw I suggest St Ippy's day is January 31st, you being the patron saint of Brexit. :P ;D
Trying my hardest to not burst about the result, shhh.
Regards L R, ippy.
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Trying my hardest to not burst about the result, shhh.
Regards L R, ippy.
I realise you must having been skipping around with glee, but will give you credit where credit is due in that regard.
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Ippy i never had you figured as someone who didn't read people's posts; I said:-
"It has little to do with belief in an afterlife." and I meant that, there are many I've known who would put me to shame and often I do not know what people believe or not. Everybody can access their social conscience, compassion, empathy.
Anyway not to worry, ippy. I don't want to go off at a tangent so let's leave it there except for what LR said:-
It certainly makes sense to me. :) I am far from being any kind of saint, that is for sure, but I do get satisfaction from helping others when I can.
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Ippy i never had you figured as someone who didn't read people's posts; I said:-
"It has little to do with belief in an afterlife." and I meant that, there are many I've known who would put me to shame and often I do not know what people believe or not. Everybody can access their social conscience, compassion, empathy.
Anyway not to worry, ippy. I don't want to go off at a tangent so let's leave it there except for what LR said:-
I put my point, 'by posing the question', about what is was that you were meaning, a little different to nailing your words down on all four corners.
You need to be a lot more careful when you're writing any reply to me in the future Robbie, I've been put forward for beatification, so there! Get out of that one!
Best regards, ippy.
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I put my point, 'by posing the question', about what is was that you were meaning, a little different to nailing your words down on all four corners.
You need to be a lot more careful when you're writing any reply to me in the future Robbie, I've been put forward for beatification, so there! Get out of that one!
Best regards, ippy.
;D
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Ippy, canonisation looms! :-), what a magnificent
explosion celebration that will be!
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I put my point, 'by posing the question', about what is was that you were meaning, a little different to nailing your words down on all four corners.
You need to be a lot more careful when you're writing any reply to me in the future Robbie, I've been put forward for beatification, so there!
Right then. Perform a miracle: turn Alexander B Johnson into a caring, considerate human being whose brain is not located in his glans penis. And if you want canonisation: make him become a true leader not someone who just follows populist opinion.
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Right then. Perform a miracle: turn Alexander B Johnson into a caring, considerate human being whose brain is not located in his glans penis. And if you want canonisation: make him become a true leader not someone who just follows populist opinion.
Let's assume everything you've put in this post of yours about Boris is correct, it still remains that he is very likely to complete the leave process and after that I doubt I'll be voting Conservative again.
You see even us Saints are not not seen as perfect to everyone, and next time you post to me you should be showing more reverence for my newfound position, if not, I might see it fit to cut quite a few of your future brownie points.
Regards, ippy.
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Getting back to the subject of this thread, the actor June Spencer, who plays Peggy Woolley in 'The Archers', had her 100th earlier this year. It is good that she is still able to contribute to the longest running radio soap opera. :)
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Getting back to the subject of this thread, the actor June Spencer, who plays Peggy Woolley in 'The Archers', had her 100th earlier this year. It is good that she is still able to contribute to the longest running radio soap opera. :)
The Archers is one reason I would not want to live beyond 100. It's a Dementor made into a radio programme in my opinion. The best thing about it is the music because it means it gives you enough time to switch it off.
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The Archers is one reason I would not want to live beyond 100. It's a Dementor made into a radio programme in my opinion. The best thing about it is the music because it means it gives you enough time to switch it off.
Oh dear, dear! :P As I have said before, I have been listening to the programme since I was a year old and will continue to do so.
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Getting back to the subject of this thread, the actor June Spencer, who plays Peggy Woolley in 'The Archers', had her 100th earlier this year. It is good that she is still able to contribute to the longest running radio soap opera. :)
And of course it's worth noting that Sheila Mercier - Annie Sugden died on Friday at the age of 100
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7790455/Emmerdale-actress-Sheila-Mercier-played-Annie-Sugden-dies-age-100.html
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And of course it's worth noting that Sheila Mercier - Annie Sugden died on Friday at the age of 100
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7790455/Emmerdale-actress-Sheila-Mercier-played-Annie-Sugden-dies-age-100.html
Not a programme I bothered to watch.