Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on May 06, 2020, 09:11:53 AM
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I wonder whether the much larger celebrations for the 75th anniversary as opposed to the 50th are because there are so few people left who fought in the war. The whole thing feels facile and looks like propaganda.
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Are they larger? I don't remember 25 years ago, though I do remember the commemoration og the 50th of D-day, 26 years ago, with the then heads of State and government of the major allies standing on the beach.
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Are they larger? I don't remember 25 years ago, though I do remember the commemoration og the 50th of D-day, 26 years ago, with the then heads of State and government of the major allies standing on the beach.
Amongst other things see below.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8281015/Celebrate-75th-anniversary-VE-Day-definitive-TV-guide-plus-make-bunting.html?fbclid=IwAR3mN3Zqm7Ga6D-Xlgs-Y60GHs9rYUMP_Wlofwu419_I01QeQFwr6LCRoiM
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I wonder whether the much larger celebrations for the 75th anniversary as opposed to the 50th are because there are so few people left who fought in the war. The whole thing feels facile and looks like propaganda.
I think that is an unpleasant comment! >:( There are still people alive who fought that war and their bravery should be remembered. My home island still celebrates Liberation Day every year and will continue to do so, I hope, for a very long time.
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I think that is an unpleasant comment! >:( There are still people alive who fought that war and their bravery should be remembered. My home island still celebrates Liberation Day every year and will continue to do so, I hope, for a very long time.
I asked it because a friend of mine who is a corporal in the TA asked it. And indeed in the discussion which involved a number of people who had served in the armed forces they were unanimous that the stuff that is being done for Friday is trite and dishonours those who served.
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The other thing is whether the vacuousness of the celebrations with the bank holiday move and the twee idea of afternoon tea, and the replaying of Churchill's speech was all about a way of propagandising Brexit.
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Politically there may be a perceived link with the current corona virus situation. The enemy can be defeated with a unified effort even if it takes six years of national effort. The economic aftermath may be similar and take just as long. Get ready for Ration Books.
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Politically there may be a perceived link with the current corona virus situation. The enemy can be defeated with a unified effort even if it takes six years of national effort. The economic aftermath may be similar and take just as long. Get ready for Ration Books.
But we didn't win WW2 by sitting on our arses all day, drinking beer and watching telly, the approved anti-Covid tactic.
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I was a few days short of three years old on V E day, I've a rather vague memory of the street party and then watching the victory march in Tottenham high street, somewhere near some sort of village pump I remember this with a little more detail than the street party.
I remember the bells of the fire engines for a lot of the time and I also remember feeling put out because my parents wouldn't let me out to see them.
ippy.
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I wonder whether the much larger celebrations for the 75th anniversary as opposed to the 50th are because there are so few people left who fought in the war. The whole thing feels facile and looks like propaganda.
I've no idea whether it is larger or not - please can you justify this statement with some facts.
But even if it is I suspect it is because it is likely to be the last major landmark whether there will be significant numbers who actually fought still alive. Once we reach 80 years, most of those people will be 100 and there will be very few of them. It is the final opportunity for those who came after to remember with those who were there.
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I wonder whether the much larger celebrations for the 75th anniversary as opposed to the 50th are because there are so few people left who fought in the war. The whole thing feels facile and looks like propaganda.
The Yorkshire Post doesn't seem to agree:
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/heritage-and-retro/heritage/how-50th-anniversary-celebration-ve-day-was-biggest-party-britain-end-second-world-war-2841509
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The Yorkshire Post doesn't seem to agree:
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/heritage-and-retro/heritage/how-50th-anniversary-celebration-ve-day-was-biggest-party-britain-end-second-world-war-2841509
Actually reading this link and thinking back to the date for the 50th anniversary celebrations I think they were a very big deal.
I remember there was a point for reflection and silence and my soon to be wife (we married later in the summer) went and marked it on a ridge near Hatch End that looks right across London. It was a lovely spring early evening just like today and I found the experience very moving - remembering all who had died and suffered in the second world war, regardless of which side they were on.
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I was a few days short of three years old on V E day, I've a rather vague memory of the street party and then watching the victory march in Tottenham high street, somewhere near some sort of village pump I remember this with a little more detail than the street party.
I remember the bells of the fire engines for a lot of the time and I also remember feeling put out because my parents wouldn't let me out to see them.
ippy.
I am a few months older than you, Ippy, and my recollection is similar. In our street in Nottingham were two brick and concrete air raid shelters built in the road. I recall the day when a crane with a huge iron ball slung from it came and demolished them. On VE day we went to my grandmother's house (where I was born) and joined in their street party. There was a large bonfire in the middle of the road on which was perched an effigy of Adolf Hitler.
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Actually reading this link and thinking back to the date for the 50th anniversary celebrations I think they were a very big deal.
I remember there was a point for reflection and silence and my soon to be wife (we married later in the summer) went and marked it on a ridge near Hatch End that looks right across London. It was a lovely spring early evening just like today and I found the experience very moving - remembering all who had died and suffered in the second world war, regardless of which side they were on.
Another link to remind us of what happened 25 years ago for the 50th anniversary celebrations.
https://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/09/world/v-e-day-plus-50-london-at-buckingham-palace-solemn-and-joyful-echoes-of-1945.html
Again memories coming back - there were beacons lit across the country, starting in London - that's one of the reasons we went where we did - you could see the beacons lit one after another from the first one lit by the Queen in Hyde Park.
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Another link to remind us of what happened 25 years ago for the 50th anniversary celebrations.
https://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/09/world/v-e-day-plus-50-london-at-buckingham-palace-solemn-and-joyful-echoes-of-1945.html
Again memories coming back - there were beacons lit across the country, starting in London - that's one of the reasons we went where we did - you could see the beacons lit one after another from the first one lit by the Queen in Hyde Park.
Yep, good research. I must have expunged all.of it from my memory. My bad!
And there was some question then of the use of the anniversary in politics.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12108060.perth-and-kinross-by-election-snp-accuses-tories-of-cashing-in-on-ve-day/?fbclid=IwAR3PAHsZngwJUbcN2CIlSIs9Iag9-HrWTVAriSGW0n2-2xF6ov7Go8Mh9VM
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Yep, good research. I must have expunged all.of it from my memory. My bad!
And there was some question then of the use of the anniversary in politics.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12108060.perth-and-kinross-by-election-snp-accuses-tories-of-cashing-in-on-ve-day/?fbclid=IwAR3PAHsZngwJUbcN2CIlSIs9Iag9-HrWTVAriSGW0n2-2xF6ov7Go8Mh9VM
The reality is that the 75th anniversary celebrations will be much more muted that the 50th - but that is because of the lock down situation across Europe. Whether they'd have been larger than the 50th under normal circumstances is anyone's guess.
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I was a few days short of three years old on V E day, I've a rather vague memory of the street party and then watching the victory march in Tottenham high street, somewhere near some sort of village pump I remember this with a little more detail than the street party.
I remember the bells of the fire engines for a lot of the time and I also remember feeling put out because my parents wouldn't let me out to see them.
ippy.
I was 9 at the time and my memories are marred by somebody throwing an Army thunderflash into the bonfire for a joke which blew its contents out burning the faces and arms of some nearby school friends.
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I was 9 at the time and my memories are marred by somebody throwing an Army thunderflash into the bonfire for a joke which blew its contents out burning the faces and arms of some nearby school friends.
Interesting ekim, I also remember being stood up in one of those old butler sinks being washed by my mother and the window right next to me suddenly disintegrated the my mother wrapping towels around me in a great hurry then carrying me away, that's all I remember of that event.
Later when I was that little bit older I found out that that previous event was a V 2 that took out a block of houses about 100 meters long by 60 meters and these unfortunate houses were about 90 meters away from our own house.
This now has reminded me of how common it was as I was growing up to play on these bomb sites all over Wood Green North London, how the BBC's Alexander Palace, also in Wood Green didn't get flattened too, perhaps the large ariel was too good a fixed point, a datum for the German bombers.
Regards, ippy.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-52576176
Dame Vera Lynn has this message to commemorate VE Day, she is now 103.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-52576176
Dame Vera Lynn has this message to commemorate VE Day, she is now 103.
We used to sing a different version of 'We'll meet again'. It was called 'Whale meat again?' :)
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-52576176
Dame Vera Lynn has this message to commemorate VE Day, she is now 103.
I didn't know she was still alive or know much about her apart from singing for troops during WWll but good for her making such old bones. Saw Katherine Jenkins on the box the other night singing one of her old songs.
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I was a few days short of three years old on V E day, I've a rather vague memory of the street party and then watching the victory march in Tottenham high street, somewhere near some sort of village pump I remember this with a little more detail than the street party.
I remember the bells of the fire engines for a lot of the time and I also remember feeling put out because my parents wouldn't let me out to see them.
ippy.
My mother was three at the time and she has a photograph taken at the street party and she and her older sister are in it.
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A story of wartime from a friend, and yes, if he hasn't corrected it when anyone reads it, he's got Attlee's name wrong twice.
ETA: he's now corrected it.
https://whitehall1212.blogspot.com/2020/05/alasdair-crichton-last-of-ve-day.html?fbclid=IwAR174kK6F4yp_bskNrXbvlRDzveA6nQKxWzzRwUtVyyBJ5hzO_c0CqO2yc4
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At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
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Interesting that there are moves in Germany to make it a holiday
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52574748
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Fascinating article on the reaction in Dublin at the time
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ve-day-75-haughey-fitzgerald-and-that-irish-times-front-page-1.4247916?mode=amp&fbclid=IwAR01vAVk8PigeyDPOAiIvO2p5nQ8kD34ydI3xfCBCAo7Ttk_pkaahBzDCNs
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At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
Stop shouting!
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Lots of Union Jacks and bunting round my way.
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Forgotten how much I like The Man Who Never Was, been watching it on BBC2
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Never_Was
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Lots of Union Jacks and bunting round my way.
Nary a flag nor a bunt to be seen here.
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Fascinating article on the reaction in Dublin at the time
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ve-day-75-haughey-fitzgerald-and-that-irish-times-front-page-1.4247916?mode=amp&fbclid=IwAR01vAVk8PigeyDPOAiIvO2p5nQ8kD34ydI3xfCBCAo7Ttk_pkaahBzDCNs
I believe that, though the Irish government, to its shame, was neutral, many Irishmen fought the Nazis by travelling to N. Ireland, and joining the British army there.
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I believe that, though the Irish government, to its shame, was neutral, many Irishmen fought the Nazis by travelling to N. Ireland, and joining the British army there.
Some details here
http://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/the-forgotten-volunteers-of-world-war-ii/
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I believe that, though the Irish government, to its shame, was neutral, many Irishmen fought the Nazis by travelling to N. Ireland, and joining the British army there.
Why "to its shame"?
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I have Irish and British citizenship, but think it was shameful that the Irish Republic didn't take a stand against Nazi tyranny. >:(
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Why "to its shame"?
They should have played their part in the fight against Nazism and fascism. They'd've been seriously in the shit if the Axis had won. (And to think I used to be an absolute pacifist, and member of the Peace Pledge Union! Actually, I still am a near-pacifist, but WW2 was the one war that just had to be fought and won.)
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Nary a flag nor a bunt to be seen here.
Nor here.
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There is a lot of flags and bunting around our way. I have put my Guernsey flag in the upstairs window where it can be seen. I didn't think it was a good idea to put my Irish flag on display.
Our eldest girl played, 'The Last Post,' on her trumpet outside her vicarage, just before 3pm this afternoon.
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Loads of bunting round here.
My partner for reasons not known to me has insisted on greeting all or neighbours with a cheery "Guten Tag".
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Loads of bunting round here.
My partner for reasons not known to me has insisted on greeting all or neighbours with a cheery "Guten Tag".
I suspect some people could find that offensive. :o
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I just find the whole thing weird.
If Hitler and the Nazis had won, people might now be out celebrating the downfall of the degenerate democratic race traitors that had brought Britain to the brink of ruin!
“History is written by the victors.” - Churchill .. or Machiavelli ...
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One take
http://ruthwishart.scot/blog/why-ill-be-a-ve-day-dodger?fbclid=IwAR3y7u-lbrp80O0bZv3uw7Zi5oVHtwwjg-onFMV8OfDxAB1mKoAfDVqOOKk
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Good piece.
Also, first time I've ever heard of Peter Hitchens having sensible view on anything. "The Phoney Victory" might be worth seeking out.
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I suspect some people could find that offensive. :o
Anyone who finds it offensive jolly well deserves to be offended.
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Good piece.
Also, first time I've ever heard of Peter Hitchens having sensible view on anything. "The Phoney Victory" might be worth seeking out.
Whateve Hitchens believes, I believe the opposite on principle, even if until then I agreed with him.
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Loads of bunting round here.
My partner for reasons not known to me has insisted on greeting all or neighbours with a cheery "Guten Tag".
Something to do with bread or pastry, wheat and barley day?
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They should have played their part in the fight against Nazism and fascism. They'd've been seriously in the shit if the Axis had won. (And to think I used to be an absolute pacifist, and member of the Peace Pledge Union! Actually, I still am a near-pacifist, but WW2 was the one war that just had to be fought and won.)
Not long before WW2 there were plenty of fascists in England & no one batted an eyelid. The Irish probably felt the same and weren't that keen on the British given recent history. Don't be too hard on the Irish, hindsight is all very well.
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Whateve Hitchens believes, I believe the opposite on principle, even if until then I agreed with him.
;D Glad you're clear about that.
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Whateve Hitchens believes, I believe the opposite on principle, even if until then I agreed with him.
Was talking to him the other day, and he said he thought you were ok, and not a complete dick.
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Not long before WW2 there were plenty of fascists in England & no one batted an eyelid. The Irish probably felt the same and weren't that keen on the British given recent history. Don't be too hard on the Irish, hindsight is all very well.
I'm not being. I think their government should have declared war, but as I said, and NS expanded on, many Southern-Irishmen did fight, with the British Army.
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The Channel Islands, including my home island of Guernsey, were liberated the day after VE Day, on May 9th. Sadly the large celebrations, which were planned for today won't be able to go ahead due to the virus. Similar ones to those here in the UK will take place people's gardens instead.
I have no doubt the song Sarnia Cherie will be sung. This is the chorus in English.
Sarnia Cherie. Gem of the sea.
Home of my childhood, my heart longs for thee.
Thy voice calls me ever, forget thee I'll never,
Island of beauty. Sarnia Cherie.