Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: jeremyp on October 03, 2020, 09:12:09 AM

Title: Orwell on Language
Post by: jeremyp on October 03, 2020, 09:12:09 AM

Apologies if this has been posted before* but I found it quite interesting that, if it had been published yesterday for the first time, it would still ring true.

https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/politics-and-the-english-language/

*By which I mean: I'm sorry if somebody else has already posted it.
Title: Re: Orwell on Language
Post by: Gordon on October 03, 2020, 10:17:16 AM
Thanks for posting that link, which I've never read before, and I've bookmarked it since it requires several readings.

First impressions, and as I said it probably requires several readings to digest, is that many of the examples he gives of poor use of language reminds me of some of the worst 'management speak' I used to encounter back in the day.
Title: Re: Orwell on Language
Post by: Robbie on October 03, 2020, 02:18:21 PM
It is very interesting; I too have encountered some horrible 'business-speak'.

I heard a new word this week:  situationalise.
Title: Re: Orwell on Language
Post by: ekim on October 03, 2020, 04:32:58 PM
To characterise a linguistic level L, the theory of syntactic features developed earlier is, apparently, determined by the requirement that branching is not tolerated within the dominance scope of a complex symbol.
Title: Re: Orwell on Language
Post by: Steve H on October 03, 2020, 05:35:36 PM
To characterise a linguistic level L, the theory of syntactic features developed earlier is, apparently, determined by the requirement that branching is not tolerated within the dominance scope of a complex symbol.
And in English...?
Title: Re: Orwell on Language
Post by: jeremyp on October 03, 2020, 05:45:45 PM
To characterise a linguistic level L, the theory of syntactic features developed earlier is, apparently, determined by the requirement that branching is not tolerated within the dominance scope of a complex symbol.
Good example...

... I think
Title: Re: Orwell on Language
Post by: Gordon on October 03, 2020, 06:05:22 PM
To characterise a linguistic level L, the theory of syntactic features developed earlier is, apparently, determined by the requirement that branching is not tolerated within the dominance scope of a complex symbol.

That's easy for you to say.  ;)
Title: Re: Orwell on Language
Post by: ekim on October 04, 2020, 10:24:25 AM
And in English...?
I suggested that these results would follow from the assumption that most of the methodological work in modern linguistics is necessary to impose an interpretation on the ultimate standard that determines the accuracy of any proposed grammar.
Title: Re: Orwell on Language
Post by: Steve H on October 04, 2020, 12:04:52 PM
I suggested that these results would follow from the assumption that most of the methodological work in modern linguistics is necessary to impose an interpretation on the ultimate standard that determines the accuracy of any proposed grammar.
That's supposed to be easier to understand?
Title: Re: Orwell on Language
Post by: ad_orientem on October 04, 2020, 02:43:23 PM
Apologies if this has been posted before* but I found it quite interesting that, if it had been published yesterday for the first time, it would still ring true.

https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/politics-and-the-english-language/

*By which I mean: I'm sorry if somebody else has already posted it.

Can't say I understood much of that article. I know the words but failed to understand the point. Maybe I'm stupid.
Title: Re: Orwell on Language
Post by: ekim on October 04, 2020, 03:14:54 PM
That's supposed to be easier to understand?

With this clarification, the speaker-hearer's linguistic intuition suffices to account for the traditional practice of grammarians.

OK, I'll level with you.  :) My replies were made up from a random selection of phrases under headings of Initiating phrases, Subject phrases, Verbal phrases and Terminating phrases.  It's called creating fog.  The end result is something that looks as if it could mean something, but means nothing.  e.g.

Suppose, for instance, that.....a case of semigrammaticalness of a different sort.....is not quite equivalent to...... a corpus of utterance tokens upon which conformity has been defined by the paired utterance test.
Title: Re: Orwell on Language
Post by: Steve H on October 04, 2020, 04:39:33 PM
With this clarification, the speaker-hearer's linguistic intuition suffices to account for the traditional practice of grammarians.

OK, I'll level with you.  :) My replies were made up from a random selection of phrases under headings of Initiating phrases, Subject phrases, Verbal phrases and Terminating phrases.  It's called creating fog.  The end result is something that looks as if it could mean something, but means nothing.  e.g.

Suppose, for instance, that.....a case of semigrammaticalness of a different sort.....is not quite equivalent to...... a corpus of utterance tokens upon which conformity has been defined by the paired utterance test.
;D