Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Science and Technology => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on February 18, 2021, 07:42:16 PM

Title: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 18, 2021, 07:42:16 PM

Fascinating stuff

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/science-environment-56101496
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Gordon on February 18, 2021, 08:04:39 PM
I hope it goes well - I'm a sucker for space stuff.
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 18, 2021, 08:59:11 PM
Landed successfully!
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Anchorman on February 18, 2021, 09:36:27 PM
 Watched it.
Incredible feat of technology.
I remember watching the Viking landers - at the time the ultimate example of space tech. How far we've come.
The concept of the tiny space helicopter seems mind boggling.
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Roses on February 19, 2021, 11:49:45 AM
It is incredible what modern technology can achieve.
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: BeRational on February 20, 2021, 12:25:59 AM
Fantastic stuff,  I love this sort of thing.

Not sure why they describe it as terror though!

If you were sat in it hoping to land that would be different!
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Sriram on February 20, 2021, 04:48:40 AM



Frankly I don't see what the big deal is about the Rover landing.  Ok....good technology and all that..... That is fine.

But what does it all mean and why are they wasting so much money and time on this? We put a man on the moon in 1969... more than 50 years ago...and what has been the benefit?

We have a natural urge to keep moving (animals do that all the time) and discovering new habitats as a part of our survival strategy. We are however allowing this urge to take us too far.

We are never going to colonize the Moon or Mars even in the far future. Face it!  We have evolved on earth over 4 billion years and cannot live anywhere outside the earth's protective environment.

The urge to run away to other habitats has made us indifferent to our own planet which is why we are facing so many problems here. 

https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/space-explorati/



Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: splashscuba on February 20, 2021, 11:41:15 AM


Frankly I don't see what the big deal is about the Rover landing.  Ok....good technology and all that..... That is fine.

But what does it all mean and why are they wasting so much money and time on this? We put a man on the moon in 1969... more than 50 years ago...and what has been the benefit?

We have a natural urge to keep moving (animals do that all the time) and discovering new habitats as a part of our survival strategy. We are however allowing this urge to take us too far.

We are never going to colonize the Moon or Mars even in the far future. Face it!  We have evolved on earth over 4 billion years and cannot live anywhere outside the earth's protective environment.

The urge to run away to other habitats has made us indifferent to our own planet which is why we are facing so many problems here. 

https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/space-explorati/
Here's NASA's take on the benefits.

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/Benefits-Stemming-from-Space-Exploration-2013-TAGGED.pdf (https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/Benefits-Stemming-from-Space-Exploration-2013-TAGGED.pdf)

That took around 5 seconds to find. Why don't you do a bit of research yourself.
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Alan Burns on February 20, 2021, 12:47:40 PM
Apparently the main aim of this incredible feat of technology is to discover signs of life where water once existed.  How  much time, effort and expense will be needed to discover that you need more than just the presence of basic ingredients for life to come into existence?
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 20, 2021, 12:52:41 PM
Apparently the main aim of this incredible feat of technology is to discover signs of life where water once existed.  How  much time, effort and expense will be needed to discover that you need more than just the presence of basic ingredients for life to come into existence?
Drivel
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Sriram on February 20, 2021, 01:06:10 PM
Here's NASA's take on the benefits.

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/Benefits-Stemming-from-Space-Exploration-2013-TAGGED.pdf (https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/Benefits-Stemming-from-Space-Exploration-2013-TAGGED.pdf)

That took around 5 seconds to find. Why don't you do a bit of research yourself.


These are banal arguments. There have been many spin-off benefits from the world wars too.  Should we therefore have a few more world wars?!! ::)
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: SusanDoris on February 20, 2021, 01:35:35 PM
Apparently the main aim of this incredible feat of technology is to discover signs of life where water once existed.  How  much time, effort and expense will be needed to discover that you need more than just the presence of basic ingredients for life to come into existence?
Trivial, trite, cloyingly saccharine nonsense. And you absolutely cannot demonstrate otherwise.
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Gordon on February 20, 2021, 03:44:35 PM
Apparently the main aim of this incredible feat of technology is to discover signs of life where water once existed.  How  much time, effort and expense will be needed to discover that you need more than just the presence of basic ingredients for life to come into existence?

Don't be silly: if this mission does confirm that life did exist on Mars then a reasonable assumption is that Mars once also had sufficient 'basic ingredients', and that life is not confined to this planet. If these 'basic ingredients' are sufficient to get life going on two different planets then 'more' is clearly not essential (whatever 'more' actually means).   
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Sriram on February 21, 2021, 06:41:02 AM
Don't be silly: if this mission does confirm that life did exist on Mars then a reasonable assumption is that Mars once also had sufficient 'basic ingredients', and that life is not confined to this planet. If these 'basic ingredients' are sufficient to get life going on two different planets then 'more' is clearly not essential (whatever 'more' actually means).



But....if the basic ingredients for life have been present on Mars for billions of years....but  life has not formed at all (even simple organisms), then it shows that there is something special about the earth where life has not just formed but has evolved into such complex organisms.
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Gordon on February 21, 2021, 07:13:06 AM


But....if the basic ingredients for life have been present on Mars for billions of years....but  life has not formed at all (even simple organisms), then it shows that there is something special about the earth where life has not just formed but has evolved into such complex organisms.

It will be interesting to see whether or not this mission finds evidence that life did once exist on Mars: if not, I wouldn't describe Earth as being 'special' and it is perhaps more the case that conditions here were sufficiently different to those on Mars for abiogenesis to happen here, leading to evolution, and not there. Or it could even be that abiogenesis did originate on Mars but that conditions there then changed to become hostile to life.

We'll just have to wait to see what evidence is discovered - it's fascinating no matter what they find (or don't).
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Roses on February 21, 2021, 11:33:33 AM
I own an acre plot of land on Mars, it would be very interesting to know what it looks like. My darling children are planning to send me on a visit there but apologise because they will only be able to afford a one way trip. ;D 
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: BeRational on February 21, 2021, 01:04:42 PM
Actually it shows with the complexity of landing of this lander how difficult it it be to land something heavy enough to carry humans.

Parachutes will probably not be enough due to the thin atmosphere, and carrying enough fuel for retro rockets all seem a massive problem.

It will be interesting to see the solution.
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Sriram on February 21, 2021, 02:29:46 PM


But what is the point of putting a man on Mars with all its dangers and risks? 

Sending probes at least makes some sense in terms of getting some idea of what is there....though it could easily become an obsessive 'need to know'.  But putting a man there is meaningless.

If its just a silly sense of achievement and triumph...planting a flag etc....that is clearly nonsense!  En masse colonization (running away) is obviously out of the question.

Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: splashscuba on February 21, 2021, 02:31:28 PM

These are banal arguments. There have been many spin-off benefits from the world wars too.  Should we therefore have a few more world wars?!! ::)
Such a banal argument
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Roses on February 21, 2021, 02:35:23 PM

But what is the point of putting a man on Mars with all its dangers and risks? 

Sending probes at least makes some sense in terms of getting some idea of what is there....though it could easily become an obsessive 'need to know'.  But putting a man there is meaningless.

If its just a silly sense of achievement and triumph...planting a flag etc....that is clearly nonsense!  En masse colonization (running away) is obviously out of the question.


In your opinion. Who knows what might happen in the future?
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Sriram on February 22, 2021, 07:27:01 AM


Obviously...it is my opinion!

And...we do know what will happen in the future....  Global warming, arctic ice melting, sea level rise, food crisis, massive extinction of species....maybe many more pandemics...

And Mars is not the answer to any of these...
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Sebastian Toe on February 22, 2021, 03:24:31 PM

Obviously...it is my opinion!

And...we do know what will happen in the future....  Global warming, arctic ice melting, sea level rise, food crisis, massive extinction of species....maybe many more pandemics...

And Mars is not the answer to any of these...


.....nor are cricket, kabaddi, yoga or meditation.
Should they be abandoned?
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Roses on February 22, 2021, 03:38:33 PM

.....nor are cricket, kabaddi, yoga or meditation.
Should they be abandoned?

Cricket and kabaddi most certainly. Cricket is much more boring than watching paint dry. ::) I think all contact sports like kabaddi are dangerous.
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: SusanDoris on February 22, 2021, 03:42:59 PM

.....nor are cricket, kabaddi, yoga or meditation.
Should they be abandoned?
Maybe they 'should', but I think, on the whole, bearing in mind what has been discovered while looking for other things, etc, I personally come down on the no, they should not be abandoned.
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Gordon on February 22, 2021, 08:21:01 PM
Newly released video of the landing from on-board cameras.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-56159376
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Roses on February 23, 2021, 11:23:21 AM
Newly released video of the landing from on-board cameras.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-56159376

Amazing. :)
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Alan Burns on February 23, 2021, 08:15:40 PM
Don't be silly: if this mission does confirm that life did exist on Mars then a reasonable assumption is that Mars once also had sufficient 'basic ingredients', and that life is not confined to this planet. If these 'basic ingredients' are sufficient to get life going on two different planets then 'more' is clearly not essential (whatever 'more' actually means).
By "more" I refer to the intelligently driven willpower needed to create the incredible complexity of living cells as opposed to the destructive nature of random forces.
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 23, 2021, 08:34:06 PM
By "more" I refer to the intelligently driven willpower needed to create the incredible complexity of living cells as opposed to the destructive nature of random forces.
woo, holy infinite regress, ABman.
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Gordon on February 23, 2021, 08:48:07 PM
By "more" I refer to the intelligently driven willpower needed to create the incredible complexity of living cells as opposed to the destructive nature of random forces.

So, assuming for now that evidence of, say, extinct unicellular life is found on Mars your view would that, if so, it was 'God' that done it - yes?

The problem there, Alan, is how you then explain why this "intelligently driven willpower", what with it being omniscient etc, would go to the trouble of creating life on Mars in the full knowledge that it was doomed - that doesn't sound much like "intelligently driven willpower" to me: it sounds to me like 'God' made a mistake.
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Alan Burns on February 23, 2021, 11:14:59 PM
So, assuming for now that evidence of, say, extinct unicellular life is found on Mars your view would that, if so, it was 'God' that done it - yes?
Yes of course - random forces could never do it.
Quote
The problem there, Alan, is how you then explain why this "intelligently driven willpower", what with it being omniscient etc, would go to the trouble of creating life on Mars in the full knowledge that it was doomed - that doesn't sound much like "intelligently driven willpower" to me: it sounds to me like 'God' made a mistake.
I would not consider that my limited human intelligence could somehow compete with the unimaginable intelligence needed to create and develop life to come up with such an explanation.  I do not presume to know the mind of God.
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: torridon on February 24, 2021, 08:01:58 AM
Apparently the main aim of this incredible feat of technology is to discover signs of life where water once existed.  How  much time, effort and expense will be needed to discover that you need more than just the presence of basic ingredients for life to come into existence?

'Goddidit' is never going to be a satisfying answer for people with an enquiring mind.
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Gordon on February 24, 2021, 09:12:19 AM
Yes of course - random forces could never do it.I would not consider that my limited human intelligence could somehow compete with the unimaginable intelligence needed to create and develop life to come up with such an explanation.  I do not presume to know the mind of God.

No doubt you think that, Alan: but I really don't think we should pursue this line here given that this is the 'Science and Technology' Board.
 
If I get time later on I might start a thread on this in the 'Theism and Atheism' Board.

Done that here:

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=18406.new#new
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: jeremyp on February 24, 2021, 01:50:23 PM


But....if the basic ingredients for life have been present on Mars for billions of years....but  life has not formed at all (even simple organisms), then it shows that there is something special about the earth where life has not just formed but has evolved into such complex organisms.

In comparison to Earth, Mars only receives 40% of the energy from the Sun per unit area. It may just be that there's not enough.
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Sriram on February 24, 2021, 02:57:57 PM
In comparison to Earth, Mars only receives 40% of the energy from the Sun per unit area. It may just be that there's not enough.


But...life (in general) does not appear to have specific requirements. Life could form and evolve under very different conditions suitably. Bacteria on earth live and thrive in the darkest and most inhabitable places...even without oxygen and sunlight.  Why not on Mars?
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Gordon on March 03, 2021, 06:26:26 PM
Great pics from Mars.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-56238018
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Roses on March 03, 2021, 06:30:47 PM
Fascinating. Earth may look like that in the future if global warming is not brought under control. :(
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: SusanDoris on March 26, 2021, 05:00:34 PM
Unconnected question but seems an appropriate place to ask it:

When a space probe or something is sent to go round a planet so that it can be flung off in another required direction, what is the word or phrase for that?

I've been trying to think of it for days! I tried asking a google search question but couldn't find the right question to ask.

Any help much appreciated.
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 26, 2021, 05:13:10 PM
Unconnected question but seems an appropriate place to ask it:

When a space probe or something is sent to go round a planet so that it can be flung off in another required direction, what is the word or phrase for that?

I've been trying to think of it for days! I tried asking a google search question but couldn't find the right question to ask.

Any help much appreciated.
Gravitational slingshot
Title: Re: Mars landing and 7 minutes of terror
Post by: SusanDoris on March 26, 2021, 05:58:17 PM
Gravitational slingshot
Many thanks - the word slingshot is what I was looking for. I hadn't thought about the word gravitational, but I'll use it in future along with slingshot!