Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on April 30, 2021, 04:36:10 PM
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Really uncomfortable with this judgement
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56937149.amp
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Prostitutes. They're called prostitutes.
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Prostitutes. They're called prostitutes.
I think it's better to say women working as prostitutes. The sex worker thing is problematic because it is based on an agenda - but you can take that up with the BBC.
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Article from Julie Bindel which I pretty much agree with.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/disabled-men-don-t-have-a-right-to-use-prostitutes
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Article from Julie Bindel which I pretty much agree with.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/disabled-men-don-t-have-a-right-to-use-prostitutes
It is amazing to me that people of all degrees who can fuck their brains out with sex workers/prostitutes see fit to say that a 'disabled' person should not be aided to the same pleasures.
Talk about "I'm all right, Jack, and fuck you!"
Owlswing
)O(
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It is amazing to me that people of all degrees who can fuck their brains out with sex workers/prostitutes see fit to say that a 'disabled' person should not be aided to the same pleasures.
Talk about "I'm all right, Jack, and fuck you!"
Owlswing
)O(
You seem to be missing the point. This is from the viewpoint of those saying that prostitution is exploitation no matter who you are.
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You seem to be missing the point. This is from the viewpoint of those saying that prostitution is exploitation no matter who you are.
That is simplistic. There are expensive, high-class prostitutes who choose their job freely, and are not controlled by pimps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Collective_of_Prostitutes
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That is simplistic. There are expensive, high-class prostitutes who choose their job freely, and are not controlled by pimps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Collective_of_Prostitutes
And that's idiotic about what prostitution involves. Keep supporting trafficking and slavery to indulge your little wank fantasy.
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And that's idiotic about what prostitution involves. Keep supporting trafficking and slavery to indulge your little wank fantasy.
Somewhat uncalled-for, I think. I'm not in favour of prostitution in any form, but there are different kinds.
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Somewhat uncalled-for, I think. I'm not in favour of prostitution in any form, but there are different kinds.
So what point are you making0?
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So what point are you making0?
That it's a bit more complex than your earlier post suggested.
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And that's idiotic about what prostitution involves. Keep supporting trafficking and slavery to indulge your little wank fantasy.
In Sydney, Australia, while I worked in the Clubs, I was well acquainted with many of the 'working girls', a.k.a. prostitutes, and the vast majority were on the game by personal choice.
Any man trying to become a pimp would very soon find himself leaving the Cross, sometimes to move somewhere else and sometimes for hospital for the treating of various fractures.
Not all prostitutes are in the business under duress.
Of course, I realised that I would get such a comment as yours, you seem to comment from a higher plane uneducated by experience.
Be that as it may, you are, of course, entitled to see anything and everything from your own viewpoint
No one can deny you that right. especially not me!!!
Owlswing
)O(
)O(
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In Sydney, Australia, while I worked in the Clubs, I was well acquainted with many of the 'working girls', a.k.a. prostitutes, and the vast majority were on the game by personal choice.
Any man trying to become a pimp would very soon find himself leaving the Cross, sometimes to move somewhere else and sometimes for hospital for the treating of various fractures.
Not all prostitutes are in the business under duress.
Of course, I realised that I would get such a comment as yours, you seem to comment from a higher plane uneducated by experience.
Be that as it may, you are, of course, entitled to see anything and everything from your own viewpoint
No one can deny you that right. especially not me!!!
Owlswing
)O(
)O(
Quite - thanks for the back-up. That's the only point I was trying to make; that it's more complex than NS's earlier post suggested. They're not all operating under duress. I certainly don't approve of prostitution, which is dangerous for the prostitutes, even if they are independent operators. As for "wank fantasy", I find the whole idea something of a turn-off.
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I see nothing wrong with the judgement.
He wants to pay for a service the sex worker is offering.
What is the problem?
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I see nothing wrong with the judgement.
He wants to pay for a service the sex worker is offering.
What is the problem?
As per this article I put up earlier
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/disabled-men-don-t-have-a-right-to-use-prostitutes
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As per this article I put up earlier
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/disabled-men-don-t-have-a-right-to-use-prostitutes
The title of that article is a thoroughgoing straw man. No-one has a right to purchase any service or product; the vendor can always refuse their custom. However, when the vendor is willing to sell, and the transaction is legal, there shouldn't be a problem. (I repeat that I don't approve of prostitution, but, unlike some, I don't want to ban everything I personally disapprove of. Prostitution should be allowed with legal controls, and there's a case for licensed brothels.)
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The title of that article is a thoroughgoing straw man. No-one has a right to purchase any service or product; the vendor can always refuse their custom. However, when the vendor is willing to sell, and the transaction is legal, there shouldn't be a problem. (I repeat that I don't approve of prostitution, but, unlike some, I don't want to ban everything I personally disapprove of. Prostitution should be allowed with legal controls, and there's a case for licensed brothels.)
Leaving aside your attempt to poison the well by imolying that my objection is simply that I disapprove of prostitution, there are real issues with your approach. If you, alliw regulation and licensing then in theory it's a valid career and one that if someone refused a job in could lead to having unemployment benefits withdrawn.
Anyway here's an article covering the Nordic Model, and note there is mention of the 'Pussy Club' a licensed brothel in Germany.
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That it's a bit more complex than your earlier post suggested.
I think you're the one being over simplistic. That there might be some people doing it willingly does not negate that millions across the world are trapped into it.
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In Sydney, Australia, while I worked in the Clubs, I was well acquainted with many of the 'working girls', a.k.a. prostitutes, and the vast majority were on the game by personal choice.
Any man trying to become a pimp would very soon find himself leaving the Cross, sometimes to move somewhere else and sometimes for hospital for the treating of various fractures.
Not all prostitutes are in the business under duress.
Of course, I realised that I would get such a comment as yours, you seem to comment from a higher plane uneducated by experience.
Be that as it may, you are, of course, entitled to see anything and everything from your own viewpoint
No one can deny you that right. especially not me!!!
Owlswing
)O(
)O(
You shouldn't make idiotic assumptions about what experience someone has based on no fucking knowledge.For 10 years I did volunteering work for a charity aimed at helping women who had worked as prostitutes out of the trap they were in. The vast majority of them had either been trafficked, or werr supporting a drug habit. I volunteered because a colleague I had worked with had a drug habit that lead to her losing her job, and then ended up working as a prostitute. 2 years later she was dead. She was 26 .
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As per this article I put up earlier
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/disabled-men-don-t-have-a-right-to-use-prostitutes
I agree that it should be allowed.
I cannot see why it would be illegal.
Everything should be allowed unless you can demonstrate a good reason why it should not be.
People finding it distasteful is not a good reason
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I agree that it should be allowed.
I cannot see why it would be illegal.
Everything should be allowed unless you can demonstrate a good reason why it should not be.
People finding it distasteful is not a good reason
Ir's not it being distasteful. It's the outcomes.
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Ir's not it being distasteful. It's the outcomes.
The outcome that he paid for sex and someone willingly offered the service and was paid.
That is an outcome.
I see nothing wrong with that
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The outcome that he paid for sex and someone willingly offered the service and was paid.
That is an outcome.
I see nothing wrong with that
The overall outcomes of prostitution
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The overall outcomes of prostitution
Just because there can be negative outcomes that should not make it completely wrong in my mind.
Drinking leads to alcoholism, driving leads to road deaths etc.
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Just because there can be negative outcomes that should not make it completely wrong in my mind.
Drinking leads to alcoholism, driving leads to road deaths etc.
And yet at some point you would think drinking was bad based on overall outcomes. Say it killed 50% of the people who started drinking?
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And yet at some point you would think drinking was bad based on overall outcomes. Say it killed 50% of the people who started drinking?
At some point yes.
We are talking about different things though. I agree with you that forced prostitution is wrong.
I do not want to remove people's freedom to do whatever they want unless it can be shown to be harmful to the community at large.
So if people want to beat each other and they both consent, I do not understand it, but I would not say they should not be able to do so
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At some point yes.
We are talking about different things though. I agree with you that forced prostitution is wrong.
I do not want to remove people's freedom to do whatever they want unless it can be shown to be harmful to the community at large.
So if people want to beat each other and they both consent, I do not understand it, but I would not say they should not be able to do so
But if forced prostitution is more likely to happen when you have a system which supports it, then the overall consequences are what you look at. Hence my post earlier with the article on the Nordic Model.
And again, if it is ok for people, mainly men, to buy sex then why would it not be something that a person, mainly women, would not have their benefits sanctioned for refusing to do?
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But if forced prostitution is more likely to happen when you have a system which supports it, then the overall consequences are what you look at. Hence my post earlier with the article on the Nordic Model.
And again, if it is ok for people, mainly men, to buy sex then why would it not be something that a person, mainly women, would not have their benefits sanctioned for refusing to do?
I am not sure forced prostitution is bound to happen , and I would hope the police would take action.
Prohibiting people freedom do do what they want should not be taken away lightly.
Are you saying there are no sex workers who do it voluntarily and are happy to make money that way. They sell a service
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I am not sure forced prostitution is bound to happen , and I would hope the police would take action.
Prohibiting people freedom do do what they want should not be taken away lightly.
Are you saying there are no sex workers who do it voluntarily and are happy to make money that way. They sell a service
No, I'm not saying that there are no people working as prostitutes who do it willingly. Forced prostitution happens in all regimes. It is packed with trafficked women, and drug addicted women, and women for whom it is the only choice though they hate it.
The Nordic Model seems the most effective way to reduce tgat. Any answer on the benefits issue?
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No, I'm not saying that there are no people working as prostitutes who do it willingly. Forced prostitution happens in all regimes. It is packed with trafficked women, and drug addicted women, and women for whom it is the only choice though they hate it.
The Nordic Model seems the most effective way to reduce tgat. Any answer on the benefits issue?
I don't have to show benefit. That is shifting the burden.
Those that want to make it illegal have the burden to say why it should be illegal.
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I don't have to show benefit. That is shifting the burden.
Those that want to make it illegal have the burden to say why it should be illegal.
You seem confused . The benefits question is about someone having their benefits sanctioned if they were refuse the offer of a job as a prostitute.
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You seem confused . The benefits is about someone having their benefits sanctioned if they were refuse the offer of a job as a prostitute.
I would not agree with that
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I would not agree with that
The problem is if you just go down the 'sex work is work' mantra then that's the only consistent view if you support benefits sanctions for refusing work.
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The problem is if you just go down the 'sex work is work' mantra then that's the only consistent view if you support benefits sanctions for refusing work.
I am not saying that though.
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I am not saying that though.
Do you support benefits sanctions for people who refuse work?
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Do you support benefits sanctions for people who refuse work?
Yes as long as they are able to work.
I would not class prostitution as work though.
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Yes as long as they are able to work.
I would not class prostitution as work though.
So the idea that it's just based around a normal offer to treat as your posts originally indicated isn't what you think. If it isn't work, what is it?
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Do you support benefits sanctions for people who refuse work?
Now is you being daft!
There is a difference between a woman refused benefits because she refuses to work as a clerk or bus driver.
A woman who chooses not to work in her own premises at her own choice of hi=urs is NOT NOT NOT being OFFERED work that she can refuse!
Therefore the question of benefits sanctions dies not arise
Owlswing
)O(
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Now is you being daft!
There is a difference between a woman refused benefits because she refuses to work as a clerk or bus driver.
A woman who chooses not to work in her own premises at her own choice of hi=urs is NOT NOT NOT being OFFERED work that she can refuse!
Therefore the question of benefits sanctions dies not arise
Owlswing
)O(
And if she refuses work in a licensed brothel?
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And if she refuses work in a licensed brothel?
As long as she is obeying the relevant hygiene laws and is breaking no other laws why must she work in a brothel if she is happy working from home?
Owlswing
)O(
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As long as she is obeying the relevant hygiene laws and is breaking no other laws why must she work in a brothel if she is happy working from home?
Owlswing
)O(
Because that's where the work is being offered.
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And again, if it is ok for people, mainly men, to buy sex then why would it not be something that a person, mainly women, would not have their benefits sanctioned for refusing to do?
It shouldn't be difficult to make a specific exception to the rules.
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It shouldn't be difficult to make a specific exception to the rules.
Why do want a specific exception made?
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Because that's where the work is being offered.
If that is the case then I would think that the Brothel in question was staffed by prostitutes who wished to work there as any who wished to work from home would do so.
What you seem to be suggesting is the brothel in question was operating illegally with prostitutes under threat, not of their own free will!
As has been said by others I am against any form of coercion but your suggestion seems to imply that the women in the brothel in question were there under force but the prostitute was quoted as being perfectly willing to service the gentleman in question
You have made protests that do not apply to this case purely on the basis of an unpleasant personal experience involving a prostitute.
I am not prepared to continue this argument as long as you refuse to accept that your comments do not fit the case in point!!
Owlswing
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Why do want a specific exception made?
Because, while prostitution should not be illegal, it is not desirable either, and shouldn't be encouraged.
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Leaving aside your attempt to poison the well by imolying that my objection is simply that I disapprove of prostitution...
I implied nothing of the sort. I said that I disapproved of it.