Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sriram on April 18, 2023, 06:05:54 AM
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Hi everyone,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65307047
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A householder in the US state of Missouri has been charged with shooting a teenager who rang the wrong doorbell while picking up his younger brothers.
Andrew Lester, 84, has been charged with first-degree assault and armed criminal action, prosecutors said.
Mr Lester, who is white, allegedly shot Ralph Yarl, 16, who is black, once in the head and once in the arm last Thursday night. The boy survived.
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Another case....
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65307556
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A man has been charged with second-degree murder in the US after he allegedly shot and killed a 20-year-old woman as the car she was in mistakenly drove up the man's driveway.
Kaylin Gillis was with three other people in New York state on Saturday.
They accidentally drove into the driveway of Kevin Monahan in the town of Hebron, police say.
As the driver was leaving, Mr Monahan, 65, allegedly opened fire on the vehicle, hitting Ms Gillis.
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Why are people so insecure that they can't tolerate a stranger on their premises without gunning him or her down?
Sriram
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Why are people so insecure that they can't tolerate a stranger on their premises without gunning him or her down?
As I am sure you don't need pointing out this is a peculiarly American (USA) problem.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen elsewhere but the chances in the UK of anything like this happening is vanishingly small, as it is in the most of Europe, and indeed across large swathes of the world. We've discussed the USA's unusual relationship with firearms ad nauseum on here. Sad to say, I don't think there is anything further to be said. The issue is in the hands of the American people some of whom seem intent on maintaining the supremacy of the ownership of guns over the right to life.
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As I am sure you don't need pointing out this is a peculiarly American (USA) problem.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen elsewhere but the chances in the UK of anything like this happening is vanishingly small, as it is in the most of Europe, and indeed across large swathes of the world. We've discussed the USA's unusual relationship with firearms ad nauseum on here. Sad to say, I don't think there is anything further to be said. The issue is in the hands of the American people some of whom seem intent on maintaining the supremacy of the ownership of guns over the right to life.
Indeed
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/15/south-dakota-governor-kristi-noem-grandchild-guns-nra
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I don't think guns are the cause. There is a deep rooted insecurity that makes then want to keep guns in the first place.
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I don't think guns are the cause. There is a deep rooted insecurity that makes then want to keep guns in the first place.
It is all very complex, you have a degree of mistrust/racism towards black people in the mix. I'm not really sure that you can separate the issue of guns and insecurity. It is a bit chicken and egg.
The one thing for sure is that if you have less access to guns and less guns you have less gun deaths. It is not a difficult equation to work out. What is more difficult is getting the USA to a place where that could realistically happen.
The current ownership is high at 45% of households owning at least one gun. This figure has been in the range of 37% - 47% over the last decade.
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I don't think guns are the cause. There is a deep rooted insecurity that makes then want to keep guns in the first place.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Grant_Wood_-_American_Gothic_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg/300px-Grant_Wood_-_American_Gothic_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg)
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It is all very complex, you have a degree of mistrust/racism towards black people in the mix. I'm not really sure that you can separate the issue of guns and insecurity. It is a bit chicken and egg.
The one thing for sure is that if you have less access to guns and less guns you have less gun deaths. It is not a difficult equation to work out. What is more difficult is getting the USA to a place where that could realistically happen.
The current ownership is high at 45% of households owning at least one gun. This figure has been in the range of 37% - 47% over the last decade.
But the 2nd amendment was sometime in the 1700's ...long before the blacks started getting any rights. Individuals had rights to yield weapons against the state itself. The insecurity is built into their society.
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But the 2nd amendment was sometime in the 1700's ...long before the blacks started getting any rights. Individuals had rights to yield weapons against the state itself. The insecurity is built into their society.
1791 - just after setting up the constitution after the revolution. And at that time perhaps understandable given its context, and agreed not to do with black people but Aruntraveller did not suggest that the 2nd Amendment was to do with that.
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I don't think guns are the cause. There is a deep rooted insecurity that makes then want to keep guns in the first place.
For some, perhaps, but it's a cultural artefact. There are any number of, particularly rural, Americans for whom gun ownership is as much a sign of their participation in the culture as a response to particular threats or situations. It's not that they necessarily need a gun for anything, but rather that within those circles owning, and particularly carrying, a gun is part of what it is to be American (and especially their sort of American).
There are other countries with high levels of gun ownership (although typically more consistent - American gun ownership is very clustered) which don't have commensurately high rates of gun violence; it's not the number of guns alone, but the attitude towards those guns that's the problem.
O.
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There are other countries with high levels of gun ownership
I've heard this argument before but it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country
You will note that gun ownership is roughly twice that of the nearest in the table - The Falklands - which will have gun ownership for other reasons.
The nearest comparable country is Canada which has gun ownership which is roughly a quarter of the figure for the USA. So I don't buy this appeal to other countries with high levels of gun ownership.
Lots of factors play into gun deaths in the USA including as you say the attitude towards guns. This does not change the fact that if you had fewer guns you would have fewer deaths. Until that basic fact is dealt with in the States the appalling death rate will continue.
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I've heard this argument before but it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country
You will note that gun ownership is roughly twice that of the nearest in the table - The Falklands - which will have gun ownership for other reasons.
The nearest comparable country is Canada which has gun ownership which is roughly a quarter of the figure for the USA. So I don't buy this appeal to other countries with high levels of gun ownership.
Lots of factors play into gun deaths in the USA including as you say the attitude towards guns. This does not change the fact that if you had fewer guns you would have fewer deaths. Until that basic fact is dealt with in the States the appalling death rate will continue.
That's the wrong statistic. What you need is the percentage of people who own at least one gun. There's a difference between one man owning 100 million guns and 100 million people owning one gun each. The latter is the more deadly scenario.
That said, I'd being willing to bet the USA also tops the correct league table.
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"That's the wrong statistic. What you need is the percentage of people who own at least one gun."
Upthread I Posted this:
"The current ownership is high at 45% of households owning at least one gun."
I think that figure veers more to the deadly scenario.
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An American's thoughts on this:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/19/why-are-americans-being-shot-for-knocking-on-the-wrong-door
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It's Aymerrycay - what do you expect?
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65325867
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Police in North Carolina are searching for a man accused of shooting a 6-year-old girl and her father after their basketball rolled into the suspect's yard.
Two other victims, a woman and a man, were also injured.
Police said the suspect, 24-year-old Robert Louis Singletary, remains at large.
Mr Singletary faces four counts of first-degree attempted murder.
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...long before the blacks started getting any rights..
They do have the right to be called black people (or people of colour). But "the blacks"? No.
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65437185
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Police in Texas say they believe a man killed five of his neighbours after an argument about him practice-shooting with a semi-automatic weapon nearby.
The victims were all from Honduras, and included an eight-year-old child.
The shooting happened on Friday night in the small town of Cleveland, San Jacinto County, north of Houston.
Among those killed were two women who were found lying on top of two surviving children, according to local Sheriff Greg Capers.
"In my opinion, they were actually trying to take care of the babies and keep them alive," Sheriff Capers told a local station KTRK. He added that all the victims had been shot "from the neck up, almost execution style, basically in the head".
Investigators believe that the victims had asked Mr Oropez, who it is thought had been drinking, to stop shooting as they were trying to put a baby to sleep.
According to Sheriff Capers, the man replied: "I'll shoot out in my front yard, do what I want to in my own residence."
After both parties returned to their houses, the gunman "topped off his magazine, and walked down his driveway... into the people's house and started shooting," Sheriff Capers said.
A total of 10 people were at the property at the time. The adults were declared dead at the scene, and the eight-year-old died at a hospital.
The gunman is believed to have used an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle.
Neighbour Veronica Pineda said she heard the shooting, but that the sound of gunfire was a regular occurrence: "It's normal, in this neighbourhood they're always shooting. They're always calling the cops and there's nothing done for that.
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