Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sriram on May 02, 2023, 05:36:43 AM
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Hi everyone
Louis Pasteur has said..."Little science takes you away from God but more of it takes you to Him".
Also..."Posterity will one day laugh at the sublime foolishness of the modern materialistic philosophy".
Spoken like a true scientist...!
Cheers.
Sriram
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Hi everyone
Louis Pasteur has said..."Little science takes you away from God but more of it takes you to Him".
Also..."Posterity will one day laugh at the sublime foolishness of the modern materialistic philosophy".
Spoken like a true scientist...!
Cheers.
Sriram
Spoken like someone who was raised in a religious household and who continued the second quote with 'The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator. I pray while I am engaged at my work in the laboratory.'
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Spoken like a true scientist...!
Where "true scientist", in this context, is defined as "a scientist who has said something Sriram agrees with". ::)
Unjustified assertions are just that, no matter who said them.
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He was fond of glass or two, perhaps the first quotes were written after the imbibition of the liquid in these quotes:
"Wine is the most healthful and most hygienic of beverages.”
“A bottle of wine contains more philosophy than all the books in the world.” ― Louis Pasteur.
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A 'true scientist'....one who can integrate seemingly conflicting ideas and take a big picture view....and avoid microscopic, fanatical views.
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Louis Pasteur:
"This milk's off."
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"When you're playing cricket and a fast bowler is bowling short, make sure the ball goes pasturise".
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How easy it is to pour scorn on truly eminent people just because your microscopic view does not match their broad vision! ::)
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How easy it is to pour scorn on truly eminent people just because your microscopic view does not match their broad vision! ::)
How easy it is to be condescending to other people just because they challenge your unfounded beliefs.
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A 'true scientist'....one who can integrate seemingly conflicting ideas and take a big picture view....and avoid microscopic, fanatical views.
Which is just a negation of some of the silly things you accuse people who don't agree with you of doing. ::)
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How easy it is to pour scorn on truly eminent people just because your microscopic view does not match their broad vision! ::)
You don't understand the scientific community, do you Sriram.
The scientific community tend not to focus on the individual, they focus on the science - in other words their contribution to the advancement of science.
So Pasteur legacy is based on his science not his personal opinions.
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How easy it is to pour scorn on truly eminent people just because your microscopic view does not match their broad vision! ::)
Your sense of humour seems to be malfunctioning.
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"When you're playing cricket and a fast bowler is bowling short, make sure the ball goes pasturise".
You wouldn't believe how long I spent trying to figure out how to make that pun work - and failed.
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Spoken like someone who was raised in a religious household and who continued the second quote with 'The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator. I pray while I am engaged at my work in the laboratory.'
Religion aside you are overlooking Pasteur's verdict on materialist philosophy reached presumably by philosophy at a time when intellectuals understood philosophy rather than follow scientism unthinkingly.
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You don't understand the scientific community, do you Sriram.
The scientific community tend not to focus on the individual, they focus on the science - in other words their contribution to the advancement of science.
So Pasteur legacy is based on his science not his personal opinions.
In comes Mister Davey with a ''no true scientist argument''.
I think you are talking about Pasteur's scientific legacy aren't you Doc?
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Religion aside you are overlooking Pasteur's verdict on materialist philosophy reached presumably by philosophy...
All we have from the quote is an unargued opinion. If you know the reasoning behind it (if there was any) then feel free to present it.
...rather than follow scientism unthinkingly.
::)
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In comes Mister Davey with a ''no true scientist argument''.
Bollocks - where did I ever say that?
I think you are talking about Pasteur's scientific legacy aren't you Doc?
Which is exactly what I'd say - the thing that is important about Pasteur (and other scientists) to the scientific community is his scientific legacy.
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All we have from the quote is an unargued opinion. If you know the reasoning behind it (if there was any) then feel free to present it.
::)
I'm just presenting the likelihood that a French scientist of the time would have had a broader education encompassing philosophical literacy than someone educated in the relatively narrow english empiricist tradition of the post war era.
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I'm just presenting the likelihood that a French scientist of the time would have had a broader education encompassing philosophical literacy than someone educated in the relatively narrow english empiricist tradition of the post war era.
Great, so we're talking about your opinion about somebody else's opinion. ::)
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I'm just presenting the likelihood that a French scientist of the time would have had a broader education encompassing philosophical literacy than someone educated in the relatively narrow english empiricist tradition of the post war era.
So I presume therefore that you dismiss the narrowness of the education available until just a few centuries ago which was basically just religion, religion and more religion.
Or is this yet another example of Vlad double standards.
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You wouldn't believe how long I spent trying to figure out how to make that pun work - and failed.
Benny Hill did it better :) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e1xvyTdBZI)
O.
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I'm just presenting the likelihood that a French scientist of the time would have had a broader education encompassing philosophical literacy than someone educated in the relatively narrow english empiricist tradition of the post war era.
Ah, so not the 'no true scientist' argument, just 'playing the man, not the ball'.... whilst their comparative educations might have altered the likelihood of a given argument prior to the event, once the science is documented it stands or falls on its own merits. Pasteur's work on vaccination, bacterial contamination and fermentation is independent of how many other things he was wrong about or whether it was because of or despite his education.
O.
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So I presume therefore that you dismiss the narrowness of the education available until just a few centuries ago which was basically just religion, religion and more religion.
Or is this yet another example of Vlad double standards.
If a 15th century monk theologian had proceeded to talk Bollocks about modern science then yes. It is well realised I think that in England students are allowed to realise their disrespect for subjects they don’t like when choosing A levels.
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Ah, so not the 'no true scientist' argument, just 'playing the man, not the ball'.... whilst their comparative educations might have altered the likelihood of a given argument prior to the event, once the science is documented it stands or falls on its own merits. Pasteur's work on vaccination, bacterial contamination and fermentation is independent of how many other things he was wrong about or whether it was because of or despite his education.
O.
Why was he wrong in this case?
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Modern materialistic philosophy is already beginning to look foolish IMO. We don't have to wait for the distant future.
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Modern materialistic philosophy is already beginning to look foolish IMO. We don't have to wait for the distant future.
I think it was John Gribben who famously told us he’d stopped looking for the ghost in the machine....not because of the ghost but that there wasn’t a machine.
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Why was he wrong in this case?
Lack of education, possibly?
O.
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Lack of education, possibly?
O.
I will record your thumbs up for materialism for when the next person wheadlingly whines that ‘nobody is pleading materialism’.
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I will record your thumbs up for materialism for when the next person wheadlingly whines that ‘nobody is pleading materialism’.
I quite openly agree that to all practical purposes I'm a materialist - I'm open to listening to other ideas, but I'm not going to accept them just because they make you feel warm and fuzzy. You need a methodology, you need some validation, you need a basis to suggest there's something else that's more than 'I don't like the materialist conclusion' or 'but the materialists don't have absolute proof'.
O.
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I quite openly agree that to all practical purposes I'm a materialist - I'm open to listening to other ideas, but I'm not going to accept them just because they make you feel warm and fuzzy. You need a methodology, you need some validation, you need a basis to suggest there's something else that's more than 'I don't like the materialist conclusion' or 'but the materialists don't have absolute proof'.
O.
For pretty much all practical purposes the vast majority of theists I know are materialists
I'd clarify that in that they don't think of themselves as materialists, and I am a bit sispucious the idea of anyone being any sort of -ist but they live their life avoiding cars.
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I think it was John Gribben who famously told us he’d stopped looking for the ghost in the machine....not because of the ghost but that there wasn’t a machine.
Who is John Gribben?
I thought the name was familiar so did a bit of googling and the reason I recognise the name is because we've worked at the same institution at one time. But totally unclear where this 'famous' quote might have come from nor why his expertise (he's an oncologist) would extend to this.
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Who is John Gribben?
I thought the name was familiar so did a bit of googling and the reason I recognise the name is because we've worked at the same institution at one time. But totally unclear where this 'famous' quote might have come from nor why his expertise (he's an oncologist) would extend to this.
My apologies Professor I meant John Gribbin not Gribben.
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My apologies Professor I meant John Gribbin not Gribben.
He's a popular science writer and journalist - and while he's pretty good at that why should his opinions be considered to be particularly notable. It isn't as if he, himself, comes up with original ideas in the manner that a researcher might.
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He's a popular science writer and journalist - and while he's pretty good at that why should his opinions be considered to be particularly notable. It isn't as if he, himself, comes up with original ideas in the manner that a researcher might.
Loads of scientists are popular science writers and even the almighty Hillside advocates them.
But you've left off the bit about him being an Astrophysicist and a visiting fellow at the University of Sussex.
Whether his phrase makes him a spiritualist I know not
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Loads of scientists are popular science writers and even the almighty Hillside advocates them.
But you've left off the bit about him being an Astrophysicist and a visiting fellow at the University of Sussex.
I didn't say he wasn't a scientist - I said he wasn't a scientific researcher. Two different things - a scientist is trained in science. A researcher uses that training to generate new knowledge and ideas. As far as I'm aware Gribbin doesn't do that, although he is good at taking the ideas of researchers and writing them in a manner that is understandable by the public.
So in that context Gribbin isn't like either Hawking or even Cox who are (or were) both researchers as well are great exponents for public understanding of science.
As far as I can see Gribbin hasn't been actually involved in any research since he completed his PhD (which is itself considered training to be a researcher) over 50 years ago.
I cannot find details of him being a visiting fellow of Univ Sussex but this was where he did his degree back in the late 60s and being a visiting fellow doesn't imply any involvement in research - it may be for profile and for his public engagement activities.