Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Sports, Hobbies & Interests => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on July 09, 2023, 10:41:35 PM
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Svitolina has made clear that she won't shake hands with Russian or Belorussian players - Azarenka respected that and got booed for it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/66150367
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Shouldn't be allowed to play but that's a different question, I suppose.
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Shouldn't be allowed to play but that's a different question, I suppose.
I'm conflicted by that. Belarus isn't actually at war with anybody and even if it was, I'm not sure that individual Belarusians should carry the can for their leaders' immoral policies.
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Politics should be kept out of sport unless there's a direct connection, such as apartheid South Africa not fielding back players, which is why the sport boycott was right. Here, though, there's no connection, and Svitolina should shake hands.
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Politics should be kept out of sport unless there's a direct connection, such as apartheid South Africa not fielding back players, which is why the sport boycott was right. Here, though, there's no connection, and Svitolina should shake hands.
So politics should be kept out of sport, except when it shouldn't. Surely saying Svitolina should shake hands is political?
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Politics should be kept out of sport unless there's a direct connection, such as apartheid South Africa not fielding back players, which is why the sport boycott was right. Here, though, there's no connection, and Svitolina should shake hands.
Eh? Politics has always been mixed with sport.
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So politics should be kept out of sport, except when it shouldn't. Surely saying Svitolina should shake hands is political?
What a silly response. Any chance of a more intelligent one?
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What a silly response. Any chance of a more intelligent one?
Your inability to answer is obvious.
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Your inability to answer is obvious.
It doesn't really deserve an answer, but the childish "it should except when it shouldn't" could be said of any rule which admits of a specific exception. I gave a clear reason why the rule that politics should be kept out of sport should admit of exceptions in a few cases. It is Svitolina's refusal to shake hands with Russian or Belarussian opponents that is political. Azarenka is not personally responsible for what her government is doing.
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It is Svitolina's refusal to shake hands with Russian or Belarussian opponents that is political.
Of course it is. RuSSian's are committing genocide in her country and Belarussian's are fasciliting it. Many top Ukrainian sportsmen and women are also dying because of that.
Azarenka is not personally responsible for what her government is doing.
A majority of ruSSian altheletes are connected to the military, the same military that is committing genocide. I believe that is the case in Belarus too.
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It doesn't really deserve an answer, but the childish "it should except when it shouldn't" could be said of any rule which admits of a specific exception. I gave a clear reason why the rule that politics should be kept out of sport should admit of exceptions in a few cases. It is Svitolina's refusal to shake hands with Russian or Belarussian opponents that is political. Azarenka is not personally responsible for what her government is doing.
Making a blanket statement and then putting in exceptions is pointless. Why should your exception be allowed, and Svitolina's exception not. She doesn't think Azarenka is responsible but thinks that if she, Svitolina, shakes hands with someone from the country that has invaded her country that would be symbolically bad.
If not shaking hands is political, then so is shaking hands. Tell me you don't think a Russian winning Wimbledon would not be used by Putin symbolically?
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Politics should be kept out of sport unless there's a direct connection.
There is no real way to keep politics out of sport - if a sports body accepts entrants from a particular regime that's a tacit acceptance of their authority, which is a political stance. Refusal to accept from a particular regime is, equally, a rejection of their authority or validity, and is a political stance. Everything from there down is going to have a political tone, and all individual sports bodies can do is set out their stall early and stick by their guns.
The All England Club took a stance last year, and were penalised by the WTF for it - this year they've opted not to take the same stance, but that is itself a political stance that their outrage isn't sufficient to risk income and prestige.
The WTF's apparent acceptance of individuals taking their own positions (i.e. not shaking hands) stands in contrast to, say, FIFA's nonsense about acceptable and unacceptable armbands of inclusion which rears its head every time there's a tournament these days.
My personal take - and I've not seen any commentary from Azarenka one way or the other on her stance on the Russian invasion - is that she's a tennis player, not a politician or a military official or a diplomat, and it's therefore not something she should be personally attacked for.
O.
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....My personal take - and I've not seen any commentary from Azarenka one way or the other on her stance on the Russian invasion - is that she's a tennis player, not a politician or a military official or a diplomat, and it's therefore not something she should be personally attacked for.
O.
Agree with the post. I'd add though that I don't think Svitolina is personally attacking Russian and Belorussian players by her refusal to shake hands. I think the crowd mistoon Azarenka's respect for Svitolina's position as Azatenka refusing to shake hands.
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Agree with the post. I'd add though that I don't think Svitolina is personally attacking Russian and Belorussian players by her refusal to shake hands. I think the crowd mistoon Azarenka's respect for Svitolina's position as Azatenka refusing to shake hands.
I went and had a quick read up on this, and Svitolina's been quite critical of the tournament organisers for not making the position clearer to spectators, she certainly appears to hold no ill will personally.
O.
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There is no real way to keep politics out of sport - if a sports body accepts entrants from a particular regime that's a tacit acceptance of their authority,
At Wimbledon, the athletes are all there as individuals. They are not representing their countries nor are they entered through their government's authority.
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At Wimbledon, the athletes are all there as individuals. They are not representing their countries nor are they entered through their government's authority.
The ITF as a body doesn't recognise individual athletes, it recognises their registration with the various national tennis federations, including (currently under suspension) the Russian Tennis Federation. Although individual athletes registrations with that body are being respected, they are not permitted to compete under their nation's flag in any WTF tournament (where all athletes' national registrations are normally explicitly stated, as a requirement) and the federation has been excluded from events like the Davis and Billie Jean King Cups.
So the individual athletes are, indeed, not representing their country, but they are entered through their government's authority (under restriction, currently), and that government involvement is considerably more explicit when it comes to Russia than with most other federations, as was evidenced in the investigation into anti-doping concerns with Russian athletes from a range of sports.
O.
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Update on Azarenka's reaction
https://talksport.com/sport/tennis/1493202/victoria-azarenka-booed-off-wimbledon-simon-jordan/
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Svitolina into the semi final. Seems to be adopted by the Wimbledon crowds. Odd that at the French Open, she was booed for not shaking hands, here they booed Azarenka who simply respected her position.
Listening to her after she won today, it's very obvious that this is politically symbolic. If she gets to the final, the most likely opponents are either Rybakina - Russian who took up Kazakh citizenship 5 years ago, or Sabalenka - Russian.
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And Svitolina out. I have to admit in this case I'm quite pleased as I had a fiver on a couple of outside players to make the final and one of them was Vondrousova at 50/1
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Russian player not allowed into Czechia. Given the precedent of Wimbledon last year, it could mean no points awarded for the toournament.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/66341189
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Russian player not allowed into Czechia. Given the precedent of Wimbledon last year, it could mean no points awarded for the toournament.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/66341189
Perhaps, but perhaps not. Wimbledon was a decision by the LTA to to accept athletes, but Czechia if I recall correctly is the government not allowing entry, the tournament itself isn't implementing any restrictions. When Djokovic wasn't permitted entry to Australia there wasn't even a suggestion of penalising the Australian Open that I heard, I wonder if the same will apply here.
O.
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Fans in Washington warned during match that there would be no handshaje between Svitolina and Azarenka
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/66369434