Blatter banned

[john]

Lots of waffle here prof.

First let me say that for more than 20 years I usually attended 2 soccer matches a week as part of my work. So I do know a bit about it.

Here is a specific description between the difference Rugby (and any other sport) and Soccer.....I say soccer cos it clearly winds you up.

There is probably no much more emotive atmosphere at any rugby match than that which exists between Bath and Gloucester (the most rabid rugby town in the UK). Buy a Bath shirt and go to Gloucester for a match you will be welcome in any part of the ground even “The Shed” the standing only area where the most vociferous fans are to be found. You will be in no danger, after the match walk down the street proudly in your Bath shirt, again no danger. Go into Teagues Bar opposite the ground which will be crammed full of Glos Boys in their cherry and white shirts you will probably be one of the very few in blue, black and white, again you will be totally safe and I am prepared to bet money that several of the Glos Boys will buy you a pint especially if Bath have lost.

Then go to watch, say, Birmingham City vs Chelsea wearing a Chelsea shirt. You will only be allowed in the away end and wont get a chance to talk to any BCFC supporters. After the match walk through Birmingham in your Chelsea shirt or go into any of the local pubs and see how long you last.

[ProfessorDavey]

Lots of waffle here prof.

Nope - just actual evidence - something your prejudices, blinkered and anecdote strewn posts lack.

There is probably no much more emotive atmosphere at any rugby match than that which exists between Bath and Gloucester (the most rabid rugby town in the UK). Buy a Bath shirt and go to Gloucester for a match you will be welcome in any part of the ground even “The Shed” the standing only area where the most vociferous fans are to be found. You will be in no danger, after the match walk down the street proudly in your Bath shirt, again no danger. Go into Teagues Bar opposite the ground which will be crammed full of Glos Boys in their cherry and white shirts you will probably be one of the very few in blue, black and white, again you will be totally safe and I am prepared to bet money that several of the Glos Boys will buy you a pint especially if Bath have lost.

Hard to start a fight in an empty room - have you ever checked out how few people attend club rugby in England - even top flight matches.

Then go to watch, say, Birmingham City vs Chelsea wearing a Chelsea shirt. You will only be allowed in the away end and wont get a chance to talk to any BCFC supporters. After the match walk through Birmingham in your Chelsea shirt or go into any of the local pubs and see how long you last.

Don this plenty of times - admittedly not at Birmingham, but at Chelsea, been an obvious away fan in the Shed end - not a problem at all. Also been into pubs as an away fan with home fans loads of time - never a problem.

[ProfessorDavey]

There is probably no much more emotive atmosphere at any rugby match than that which exists between Bath and Gloucester (the most rabid rugby town in the UK). Buy a Bath shirt and go to Gloucester for a match you will be welcome in any part of the ground even “The Shed” the standing only area where the most vociferous fans are to be found. You will be in no danger, after the match walk down the street proudly in your Bath shirt, again no danger. Go into Teagues Bar opposite the ground which will be crammed full of Glos Boys in their cherry and white shirts you will probably be one of the very few in blue, black and white, again you will be totally safe and I am prepared to bet money that several of the Glos Boys will buy you a pint especially if Bath have lost.

Oh dear John.

Seems there was trouble on and off the field at that fixture last year.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2603899/RFU-officials-set-investigate-Kingsholm-Brawl-Bath-Gloucester.html

[john]

Hi Prof

Been away for a few days.

Gee all that work to find that.... Some rugby players fighting on the pitch.... I’ve got news for you that’s not unusual at all and adequately dealt with by the officials. Rugby is a very tough game all about physical confrontation; suggest you watch more rugby to see more. And one drunk throws a plastic bottle at the ref and is then restrained by the other fans around him, oh dear. 

It is nothing whatsoever like the fan vs fan violence which is endemic at soccer matches is it? 

Fighting fans close down London Railway Station.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11610851/Football-violence-grips-mjaor-London-rail-hub.html

London Bar smashed up.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/shocking-cctv-shows-the-moment-qpr-football-hooligans-attacked-rival-fans-outside-west-london-bar-10185936.html

Police fight to separate fans at Rotherham football ground.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/watch-shocking-scenes-fan-violence-5251341

Website used to co ordinate football violence by Cambridge fans.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Vile-Cambridge-football-violence-website-probe/story-26224001-detail/story.html

Etc. Etc. Etc. Just Google football violence 2015 to find hundreds of examples in the UK alone.

Many more examples can be found from all over the world. Here is just one example.

 http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/06/football/africa-cup-of-nations-violence-equatorial-guinea/index.html



It is quite clear to anyone who looks without blinkers that violence amongst football fans is endemic all over the world.

So many people are making so much money out of football though that nothing is done about it.

EVEN DAVID BECKHAM prefers watching rugby, he says the nastyness of football crowds makes him feel uncomfortable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/12036209/David-Beckham-I-prefer-watching-live-rugby-to-football.html

Open your eyes Prof stop being so naive.

[ProfessorDavey]

Hi Prof

Been away for a few days.

Gee all that work to find that.... Some rugby players fighting on the pitch.... I’ve got news for you that’s not unusual at all and adequately dealt with by the officials. Rugby is a very tough game all about physical confrontation; suggest you watch more rugby to see more. And one drunk throws a plastic bottle at the ref and is then restrained by the other fans around him, oh dear. 

It is nothing whatsoever like the fan vs fan violence which is endemic at soccer matches is it? 

Fighting fans close down London Railway Station.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11610851/Football-violence-grips-mjaor-London-rail-hub.html

London Bar smashed up.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/shocking-cctv-shows-the-moment-qpr-football-hooligans-attacked-rival-fans-outside-west-london-bar-10185936.html

Police fight to separate fans at Rotherham football ground.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/watch-shocking-scenes-fan-violence-5251341

Website used to co ordinate football violence by Cambridge fans.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Vile-Cambridge-football-violence-website-probe/story-26224001-detail/story.html

Etc. Etc. Etc. Just Google football violence 2015 to find hundreds of examples in the UK alone.

Many more examples can be found from all over the world. Here is just one example.

 http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/06/football/africa-cup-of-nations-violence-equatorial-guinea/index.html



It is quite clear to anyone who looks without blinkers that violence amongst football fans is endemic all over the world.

So many people are making so much money out of football though that nothing is done about it.

EVEN DAVID BECKHAM prefers watching rugby, he says the nastyness of football crowds makes him feel uncomfortable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/12036209/David-Beckham-I-prefer-watching-live-rugby-to-football.html

Open your eyes Prof stop being so naive.

I was talking about the missile throwing from the fans not the violence on the pitch, which is of course common-place in rugby. It missile throwing just high jinks if it is a rugby fan but somehow appalling violence perpetrated by an 'animal' if it is a football fan - astonishingly blinkered and prejudiced John.

But we can all trade links - so here are a few:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2603899/RFU-officials-set-investigate-Kingsholm-Brawl-Bath-Gloucester.html

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/wales-v-england-idiotic-fans-8599135

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/watch-rugby-wigan-leeds-fight-10238305

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyleague/article-2721262/Widnes-beat-Castleford-reach-Challenge-Cup-final-chaotic-scenes-final-whistle-fans-invade-pitch-fights-break-out.html

And international

http://www.rugby365.com/article/53205-crowd-violence-not-new

The notion that rugby is trouble free and every football match is attended exclusively by violent animals is non-sense as these links show.

And you have chosen to ignore my comment on attendance - very few people attend club rugby matches (and of course there are few internationals) so due to the massively greater attendance at football you are likely to get more problems on an absolute basis even if per attendance it is no greater. So just to give an astonishing statistic. The total attendance at all aviva premier rugby matches in the whole season was just about exactly the same as attendance at Man U home games - one club and only home games.

There is also another point - that there are precious few genuine club rugby fans in the way there are passionate football club fans. I know plenty of people who go to the 'event' of a 6 nations match who never go to club rugby, don't really support a club team and probably have no idea who is currently top of the league. I also know people who go to club rugby but don't really support a team - happy to trot along to Harlequins, Wasps or Saracens (when they were all in London) to fit with their social calendar, but didn't really 'support' any of them.

[john]

You're waffling Prof

No one least of all me, will deny that drunkenness and violence occur at any public order event, even Rugby matches.

But only football has regular, organised, deliberate fan vs fan violence.

All but blinkered soccer fans will see it.
 

[BeRational]

You're waffling Prof

No one least of all me, will deny that drunkenness and violence occur at any public order event, even Rugby matches.

But only football has regular, organised, deliberate fan vs fan violence.

All but blinkered soccer fans will see it.

That's fine then as I do not know any soccer fans.

Are there any in the UK?

I doubt it.

[jeremyp]

You're waffling Prof

No one least of all me, will deny that drunkenness and violence occur at any public order event, even Rugby matches.

But only football has regular, organised, deliberate fan vs fan violence.

All but blinkered soccer fans will see it.

Football does not have regular organised fan vs fan violence, at least not in the UK.

[ProfessorDavey]

Football does not have regular organised fan vs fan violence, at least not in the UK.

Sadly John doesn't seem to have understood that we are in 2015 not 1985. A lot has changed in those 30 years.

[BeRational]

I imagine John lives in the US?

[ProfessorDavey]

I imagine John lives in the US?

Perhaps - yet he claims to have 'for more than 20 years I usually attended 2 soccer matches a week as part of my work'.

Of course he failed to elaborate on where or what that work was, nor whether this was decades ago or recently.

He clearly has no understanding of the current state of football and football fans in the UK with his preposterous claims of A&Es full of fans injured by fan on fan violence with his claim:

'Visit any hospital A & E near a soccer ground and see who's there and why.'

He clearly hasn't got a clue.

[ProfessorDavey]

But only football has regular, organised, deliberate fan vs fan violence.

Never heard of the reputation of the fans at the annual Army vs Navy rugby fixture at Twickenham then have you.

And as pointed out by others your statement is totally wrong - certainly on the basis of 'regular' fan vs fan violence.

Last season there were less than 200 arrests for violent conduct (out of over 39,000,000 total attendance) at football in England. And of course there is nothing to suggest these were organised fan vs fan incidents.

Translating that to rugby to take account of the fact that there are about 20 time less total attendance at English rugby than English football, that would equate to about 10 arrests per season linked to rugby. Are you quite sure there weren't of the order of 10 arrests for violent conduct at rugby matches last season John, either inside the stadium or outside maybe due to drunken brawling. You'd be a brave man to put your money on markedly fewer than 10 arrests for the whole of last season John. But of course we don't know - why? Because proper stats aren't collected for arrests and trouble associated with rugby, because the clubs and authorities aren't really taking the issue seriously of the drinking culture and associated trouble that is so closely with watching rugby.