Author Topic: Rugby Union a bit shite!  (Read 1892 times)

Nearly Sane

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Rugby Union a bit shite!
« on: February 17, 2017, 09:11:49 PM »

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Rugby Union a bit shite!
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2017, 09:38:48 PM »
Unwatchable, really.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39006809
Not sure it is unwatchable (although poor games are), but I think there is an element of truth in the lack of technical ability. But I think that is a consequence of the fact that Rugby is very much a minority sport. Because of that there simply isn't a wide enough talent pool to be able to achieve the highest technical level.

It says something that New Zealand (a country of less than 5 million) are the number one team and have been regularly for decades. And of course the reason why they are able to do so is because it is just about the only place on the planet where Rugby Union is actually the number one sport (and don't quote Wales at me, cos it ain't true). So there is actually relatively little competition for places due to a pretty small pool of players, then it isn't surprising that those that rise to the top are good relative to the rest of that small pool, but not necessarily at a level that would allow them to rise to the top in more mainstream sports such as football, or basketball (as mentioned in the article).

Nearly Sane

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Re: Rugby Union a bit shite!
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2017, 09:48:07 PM »
But then surely that's an unavoidable fact and the 'years behind' in the article is precisely meaningless

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Rugby Union a bit shite!
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2017, 09:52:57 PM »
But then surely that's an unavoidable fact and the 'years behind' in the article is precisely meaningless
Not sure what you mean.

I just think that when you are dealing with a pretty tiny 'talent pool' - both players and coaches - then you will end up with players of fairly limited technical ability rising to the top, when they wouldn't come close in a more mainstream sport. And if they can survive it mean the very best don't need to that great technically to defeat the mediocre.

Actually the one place I think that the argument fails to stand is goal kicking, where I think there are players of very considerable technical ability. But they are effectively playing a solo sport - them against the goal posts and the distance.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Rugby Union a bit shite!
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2017, 09:59:49 PM »
Not sure what you mean.

I just think that when you are dealing with a pretty tiny 'talent pool' - both players and coaches - then you will end up with players of fairly limited technical ability rising to the top, when they wouldn't come close in a more mainstream sport. And if they can survive it mean the very best don't need to that great technically to defeat the mediocre.

Actually the one place I think that the argument fails to stand is goal kicking, where I think there are players of very considerable technical ability. But they are effectively playing a solo sport - them against the goal posts and the distance.
Not sure what you are struggling with. The link argues that RU is temporally behind the skill development but surely as your posts are arguing, it's related to the spread of involvement. So time in that sense is meaningless.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 10:04:31 PM by Nearly Sane »

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Rugby Union a bit shite!
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2017, 10:06:15 PM »
Not sure what you are struggling with. The lunk argues that RU is temporally behind the skill development but surely as your posts are arguing, it's related to the spread of involvement. So time in that sense is meaningless.
OK - I get you know - yes I think that is probably correct. I think that for sports which involve player against player (rather than say golf, or field athletic events) you can only beat the player (or team put out in front of you) and that is only ever going to be as good as the talent pool from which that team is drawn.

It is kind of telling that Rugby (at least in parts of the UK) seems obsession with putting together, nominally, the best from four separate countries (and over 70+ million people) in an attempt to beat a team put together from a country of just 5 million people. It speaks volumes to how tiny the talent pool is.

Remarkably three of the current England team were at the same school, which is just up the road from me (by the way a state school, albeit an odd one) that quite a few of my friends send their kids to. That's only likely to happen in minority sports.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Rugby Union a bit shite!
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2017, 10:21:08 PM »
I think one thing I agree in the argument  with is that the skills in American football, a sport with an overall small number of involvement, are way of in advance of what we see in RU.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Rugby Union a bit shite!
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2017, 10:39:41 PM »
I think one thing I agree in the argument  with is that the skills in American football, a sport with an overall small number of involvement, are way of in advance of what we see in RU.
I must admit that I don't follow American Football at all so I cannot comment - that said have spent a bit of time passing an american football in a 'throw-about' with my wife's cousin in Canada when we visited last summer I must say I am in awe of the ability of American footballers to throw the ball with such speed and accuracy. Beyond that American football seems like a bit of a bundle to me - but that is my lack of knowledge.

Not sure how participation in American football compare with rugby union, suspect rather more play American football than we might think as it isn't really in our psyche. But that isn't the only issue. It isn't just overall numbers but whether a sport is a minority sport or a predominant sport, meaning that the sport will attract a lot of the available talent (as most athletes tend to be good at a range of sports but need to opt for one professionally). So for American football it is a major sport in an major country (the USA - a country of some 300 million people). That contrasts with rugby which, I'd argue is only a major (or perhaps the major) sport in New Zealand, a tiny country. Nowhere else is is other than a minority sport - and that (despite all the coverage) includes Wales (with far more people playing football), South Africa, where rugby remains a major sport only in the white minority and Australia.

And interestingly that contrasts with cricket - globally a minority sport - but is huge in several countries with massive populations (India, Pakistan) - now currently the infrastructure limits development but the potential is massive. Rugby, by contrast, is very limited in terms of its development.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 11:12:54 PM by ProfessorDavey »

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Rugby Union a bit shite!
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2017, 11:28:03 PM »
I think one thing I agree in the argument  with is that the skills in American football, a sport with an overall small number of involvement, are way of in advance of what we see in RU.
just reread your post and I don't think the article (i.e. the argument) actually mentions american football - the comparison is with basketball, clearly a major global sport, albeit one with limited presence in the UK.