Parents shot children with BB gun

[ippy]

As it happens I agree with you in the sense that there is zero point in punishing people. Equally I agree that there are far better methods to deal with the majority of criminal offences than prison. But this is child abuse; you cannot cure an abusive personality (such as narcissism or sociopathy) with therapy. The statistics indicate that the children who have endured this abuse will suffer lifelong and will need their own therapy either to avoid repeating the abuse of the parents or to deal with sex harm, addiction, anxiety and depression and suicidal thinking. The people that cause this abuse cannot be fit to be out in society and prison is currently the only tool we have to stop them.

I referred to 'some' and 'cutting down', because of the percentage element in all cases, sexual abuse of children, it's well documented as virtualy incurable, where the offenders are more often than not unable to see anything wrong with their behaviour, in these cases the only solution I thought  was obvious.

I was generalising over the whole of this somewhat difficult area of offending, the offenders and the treatment there of, not writing a thesis.

ippy

[Rhiannon]

I referred to 'some' and 'cutting down', because of the percentage element in all cases, sexual abuse of children, it's well documented as virtualy incurable, where the offenders are more often than not unable to see anything wrong with their behaviour, in these cases the only solution I thought  was obvious.

I was generalising over the whole of this somewhat difficult area of offending, the offenders and the treatment there of, not writing a thesis.

ippy

This isn't sexual abuse. But the kinds of personality disorders that lead to other forms of abuse aren't curable either.

[Robbie]

I'm inclined to agree with you, Rhiannon; much as I would like to believe that everyone could reform, in reality it doesn't happen when it comes to persistent acts of cruelty.  The most we can hope is that the pair realise the severity of their crime and commit to not doing it again but how could anyone be sure?  They are not kids, the dad is 50!

[Rhiannon]

Possibly not, but there is nothing to suggest that these people are paedophiles. But they are abusers, and abusers have very high reoffending rates.

It may well be that neither of hear people will reoffend with pellet guns. I doubt though that their fundamental personalities will change and their desire to abuse and torture will continue.

We don't know if these particular abusers have personality disorders. But many do. It's true that not every narcissist or sociopath is a criminal - far from it, many are achievers - but once abuse has started I don't know how easy it is to redirect that tendency. Just because fists or sticks or pellet guns are no longer being used that doesn't mean the abuse has stopped. Narcissistic abuse is a thing in its own right with survivors often needing very specialised help, yet bringing the perpetrators to justice is often hard because they don't use physical violence.

[Rhiannon]

I never suggested these parents are paedophiles. I was stating that some people, like paedophiles, are not capable of being reformed.

Yes, I know. But it can be unhelpful to talk about paedophilia in discussions about other kids of abuse. We *know*that paedophiles are the lowest of the low. We need other kinds domestic and child abuse to be taken more seriously.

[ippy]

This isn't sexual abuse. But the kinds of personality disorders that lead to other forms of abuse aren't curable either.

Like I said.

ippy

[Rhiannon]

Yes all forms of domestic abuse have to be taken very seriously, especially when they involve children.

And they aren't. There's a lot of info on the site I link to in my signature.

[ippy]

I never suggested these parents are paedophiles. I was stating that some people, like paedophiles, are not capable of being reformed.

Looks to me Floo if you're not on the exactly same tack, to the letter, Rhi wont be having it, a generalisation seems to make you wrong in Rhi's eyes.

I feel strongly about teaching religion in any way to children in infant schools, it's made me think and take a step back and hope I'm not doing something similar, on another subject of course.

ippy

[jeremyp]

And how many child abusers do you know, Jeremy?

I'm not the one claiming this man is going to reoffend if given his freedom, you are. Also, we are not talking about child abusers in general but one individual whom neither of us have met whereas the judge who sentenced him has met him and probably had a report into his psychological condition.

I'm not saying the judge is right and you are wrong, just that he is in a better to position than you are to make a judgement and therefore the probability is that he is right.