Searching for GOD...

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's the evidence, you've just said. Now you need a methodology by which to examine it.

Oh, so glad you so rigorously failed to put forward anything resembling an argument, that makes it so much easier to dismiss your comment out of hand. You might not think an infinite regress 'cuts it' - fine, but why?

O.

But what IS the evidence for there being no good reasons to believe in God as Gordon positively asserted?

[Gordon]

But what IS the evidence for there being no good reasons to believe in God as Gordon positively asserted?

Easy peasy - just the absence of good reasons for 'God': as in the 'reasons' being offered by the likes of yourself can easily be dismissed as incoherent or fallacious, and especially since you offer no robust methods to assess, for example, how miracle claims can be investigated and confirmed.

You can't even explain how you've assessed the risks of mistakes or lies in the NT.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Easy peasy - just the absence of good reasons for 'God': as in the 'reasons' being offered by the likes of yourself can easily be dismissed as incoherent or fallacious, and especially since you offer no robust methods to assess, for example, how miracle claims can be investigated and confirmed.

You can't even explain how you've assessed the risks of mistakes or lies in the NT.

You are trying to shift the burden of proof here.
Anyway, I'm off. Good luck everybody.

[Alan Burns]

Easy peasy - just the absence of good reasons for 'God': as in the 'reasons' being offered by the likes of yourself can easily be dismissed as incoherent or fallacious, and especially since you offer no robust methods to assess, for example, how miracle claims can be investigated and confirmed.

Have you ever considered how the miracle of life came into existence from the chaos of an exploding cloud of gas?  (Before evolution or biology came to exist)

You can't even explain how you've assessed the risks of mistakes or lies in the NT.

Have you ever considered the risk of ignoring the possibility of the NT being true?

[Stranger]

Have you ever considered how the miracle of life came into existence from the chaos of an exploding cloud of gas?  (Before evolution or biology came to exist)

FALLACY: Personal incredulity.

Also, what "exploding cloud of gas"? If you mean the big bang, that's a staggeringly ignorant description.

Have you ever considered the risk of ignoring the possibility of the NT being true?

FALLACY: False dichotomy.

Have you ever considered the risk of ignoring the possibility that you believe in the wrong God?

[Gordon]

Have you ever considered how the miracle of life came into existence from the chaos of an exploding cloud of gas?  (Before evolution or biology came to exist)

Of course, though I don't think its is 'miraculous': but then I consider that it may be we can never really know how abiogenesis happened, though we can be sure it did else I wouldn't be typing this.

Have you ever considered the risk of ignoring the possibility of the NT being true?

No - it seems to me that the possibility of mistakes and/or lies remains unresolved by you guys and that some of the claims can't be taken seriously - therefore I'd say the NT can be dismissed.

[Outrider]

But what IS the evidence for there being no good reasons to believe in God as Gordon positively asserted?

The evidence is that after a few thousand years of human culture none of the believers have managed to come up with one. It's evidence, it's not proof.

O.

[Alan Burns]

Have you ever considered the risk of ignoring the possibility that you believe in the wrong God?

The risk is absolute zero because I and many other Christians have a personal relationship with the risen Jesus.

[Nearly Sane]

The risk is absolute zero because I and many other Christians have a personal relationship with the risen Jesus.

So you are infallible. Bold claim

[Gordon]

The risk is absolute zero because I and many other Christians have a personal relationship with the risen Jesus.

You just think that, Alan: and that is not enough to convince anyone thinking critically.

[Maeght]

The risk is absolute zero because I and many other Christians have a personal relationship with the risen Jesus.

You could be mistaken.

[Stranger]

The risk is absolute zero because I and many other Christians have a personal relationship with the risen Jesus.

So that's why you're terrified of learning critical thinking.   

[Spud]

So that's why you're terrified of learning critical thinking.   

To be fair, he answered your question. It's not unlike when you have to prove you're not a robot. You are asked a question and the nature of your answer shows if you are real or not.

[torridon]

We cannot choose the truth - it needs to be discerned by consciously considering and evaluating the logic and evidence available.
And in order to achieve this we need the freedom to consciously direct our own thought processes to reach verifiable conclusions.
A freedom which is impossible in the fall out from a material brain entirely driven by physical reactions beyond our conscious control.

Here you are contradicting what you wrote your previous post, reply #52082, you need to make your mind up

[torridon]

The risk is absolute zero because I and many other Christians have a personal relationship with the risen Jesus.

Therefore you presumably must accept that Allah is real given that Sufis likewise claim a mystical union with Allah.

[Alan Burns]

Therefore you presumably must accept that Allah is real given that Sufis likewise claim a mystical union with Allah.

Sufis are a good example of manmade efforts to seek a personal relationship with God.  I do not know how successful their attempts are because I do not have personal contact with any Sufis.

Personal encounters with Jesus however are not usually the result of our own efforts.  The many witness stories I have come across involve Jesus making Himself known in surprising and unexpected ways.  This is particularly true in the case of Muslim and Jewish converts to Christianity where they are overwhelmed with the Love of Jesus in contrast to the remote, distant God of their previous faith.

So I must confirm that my personal relationship with God in the person of Jesus Christ dispells any doubts I may have over my Christian faith.

[Stranger]

So I must confirm that my personal relationship with God in the person of Jesus Christ dispells any doubts I may have over my Christian faith.

Being absolutely certain is irrational. That would be why you are forever running away from logic and critical thinking, I guess. 

[Nearly Sane]

Sufis are a good example of manmade efforts to seek a personal relationship with God.  I do not know how successful their attempts are because I do not have personal contact with any Sufis.

Personal encounters with Jesus however are not usually the result of our own efforts.  The many witness stories I have come across involve Jesus making Himself known in surprising and unexpected ways.  This is particularly true in the case of Muslim and Jewish converts to Christianity where they are overwhelmed with the Love of Jesus in contrast to the remote, distant God of their previous faith.

So I must confirm that my personal relationship with God in the person of Jesus Christ dispells any doubts I may have over my Christian faith.

many people say the same about aliens.

[torridon]

Sufis are a good example of manmade efforts to seek a personal relationship with God.  I do not know how successful their attempts are because I do not have personal contact with any Sufis.

Personal encounters with Jesus however are not usually the result of our own efforts.  The many witness stories I have come across involve Jesus making Himself known in surprising and unexpected ways.  This is particularly true in the case of Muslim and Jewish converts to Christianity where they are overwhelmed with the Love of Jesus in contrast to the remote, distant God of their previous faith.

So I must confirm that my personal relationship with God in the person of Jesus Christ dispells any doubts I may have over my Christian faith.

From what I understand, Sufis claim experience of Allah through their practices, just like you claim personal experience of Jesus.  What is the common factor here ? People have all sorts of mystical experiences and they are often channeled through a cultural lens.

Furthermore, your claim that most people claiming experience of Jesus are the beneficiaries of unsought encounters from above strikes me as being unfair to those that are left out.  A loving God would not pick and choose whom to gift an encounter, the experience would be gifted to all without this arbitrary discrimination.

[Alan Burns]

Furthermore, your claim that most people claiming experience of Jesus are the beneficiaries of unsought encounters from above strikes me as being unfair to those that are left out.  A loving God would not pick and choose whom to gift an encounter, the experience would be gifted to all without this arbitrary discrimination.

The witness stories I have encountered usually involve the person seeking a direction in their unfulfilled lives and actually inviting God to give them guidance.  They may well be surprised that the God of their Muslim or Jewish faith makes Himself known in the person of Jesus.  This is the key - by inviting God into your life you are opening the door to God's love as depicted in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.  It is the forces of evil which encourage us to keep the door closed.  God will not force his love on anyone - we need to invite Him into our lives using God's amazing gift of free will.

[Stranger]

The witness stories I have encountered usually involve the person seeking a direction in their unfulfilled lives and actually inviting God to give them guidance.  This is the key - by inviting God into your life you are opening the door to God's love.  It is the forces of evil which encourage us to keep the door closed.  God will not force his love on anyone - we need to invite Him into our lives using God's amazing gift of free will.

Just like self-delusion then. Can't happen unless you decide that you really want to believe something. 

[Alan Burns]

Just like self-delusion then. Can't happen unless you decide that you really want to believe something.

I would correct that to say "we really need to believe in something."
We are made to believe - we are not just unintended consequences resulting from unguided purposeless random forces.

[Stranger]

I would correct that to say "we really need to believe in something."

Even more likely to result in delusion, then.

We are made to believe - we are not just unintended consequences resulting from unguided purposeless random forces.

Dishonest misrepresentation. I thought your imaginary friend didn't approve of "bearing false witness".

[Gordon]

I would correct that to say "we really need to believe in something."

I don't.

We are made to believe

I don't think I am.

- we are not just unintended consequences resulting from unguided purposeless random forces.

So you say, fallaciously - and even if we are, there is nothing we can do about it anyway except enjoy the ride as best we can.

[Alan Burns]

Even more likely to result in delusion, then.

Dishonest misrepresentation. I thought your imaginary friend didn't approve of "bearing false witness".

I witness to the truth.
I hope and pray that you will one day discover the truth of God's love.