Author Topic: Religious and educated?  (Read 11144 times)

Maeght

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2015, 11:59:38 AM »
TW - as has been said many times, that species have and do evolve is a fact and has been observed. The process by which is occurs - natural selection - is a theory, and a very well supported one. Scientific theories are never proven. People who accept this are not brain dead, whereas people who have this explained to them numerous times yet can't grasp it ......

ippy

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2015, 12:28:48 PM »
I think it is fairly obvious that less educated people are more likely to believe god stories than vice versa, but I don't know of any recent studies on the subject.

So LJ all educated people are atheist and all duffers are Christians.


You are the first person on this thread to make that claim.  From the way you have totally misunderstood the words that Leonard wrote, I'd say you are a data point that confirms them.

Either that or a lying arsehole.

 Say what you like,all I get from you brain dead clowns is evolution is a fact and proven.When I ask for the evidence,nothing is produced,

 you all seem to be desperate to disprove scripture,as each day  you pass out drivel non stop.

  ~TW~

 

Tw, what would be the point describing the details of how evolution works to someone like yourself that wouldn't know if anything was a fact, even if it came up and poked you in the eye?

Oh and by the way when someone like yourself that's so into superstition, myth and magic, it's for you to prove that there is any substance in these ideas that you seem to be convinced are a part of reality.

Non-religious people don't hold any beliefs in superstition, myth and magic or anything like any of those things, so obviously to most people what do we need prove, the answer, Tw, is not much.

Do give yourself a bit of time if you decide to post back, a bit of time that is, to work out some really venomous insults before you spit them out. 

ippy

Leonard James

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2015, 12:31:47 PM »
I think it is fairly obvious that less educated people are more likely to believe god stories than vice versa, but I don't know of any recent studies on the subject.

So LJ all educated people are atheist and all duffers are Christians.

 Another theory,of coarse we wait for you to explain with your great brain,Why people with greater brains then you have become Christians.

 I will look in later for your answer.

   ~TW~

Jeremy's post #20 has fully answered your rather ignorant post, so I won't waste more time on you.

Floo

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2015, 01:52:19 PM »
I think it is fairly obvious that less educated people are more likely to believe god stories than vice versa, but I don't know of any recent studies on the subject.

So LJ all educated people are atheist and all duffers are Christians.


You are the first person on this thread to make that claim.  From the way you have totally misunderstood the words that Leonard wrote, I'd say you are a data point that confirms them.

Either that or a lying arsehole.

 Say what you like,all I get from you brain dead clowns is evolution is a fact and proven.When I ask for the evidence,nothing is produced,

 you all seem to be desperate to disprove scripture,as each day  you pass out drivel non stop.

  ~TW~

 

Blimey you have the cheek to call someone brain dead, when most of your posts could be attributed to someone in that condition! ::)
"When I die I hope I will be remembered with humour by my nearest and dearest."

ippy

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2015, 03:42:23 PM »
I think it is fairly obvious that less educated people are more likely to believe god stories than vice versa, but I don't know of any recent studies on the subject.

So LJ all educated people are atheist and all duffers are Christians.


You are the first person on this thread to make that claim.  From the way you have totally misunderstood the words that Leonard wrote, I'd say you are a data point that confirms them.

Either that or a lying arsehole.

 Say what you like,all I get from you brain dead clowns is evolution is a fact and proven.When I ask for the evidence,nothing is produced,

 you all seem to be desperate to disprove scripture,as each day  you pass out drivel non stop.

  ~TW~

 

Blimey you have the cheek to call someone brain dead, when most of your posts could be attributed to someone in that condition! ::)

I agree with you Floo and you could add to that Tw's in denial as well.

ippy

jeremyp

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2015, 03:54:08 PM »
the rounded and liberal education I believed I received.

Don't worry, it doesn't show.

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'andles for forks

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2015, 07:21:12 PM »
the rounded and liberal education I believed I received.

Don't worry, it doesn't show.
No,,you're just too thick to see it.
I like the ''made up in the fourth century'' hypothesis but I also like Bart Ehrman. There's only one way to sort this out. Use contradictory evidence as it suits your argument wheeeeyyyyy!

Leonard James

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2015, 07:28:52 PM »

'andles for forks

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I like the ''made up in the fourth century'' hypothesis but I also like Bart Ehrman. There's only one way to sort this out. Use contradictory evidence as it suits your argument wheeeeyyyyy!

jeremyp

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2015, 10:48:26 PM »
the rounded and liberal education I believed I received.

Don't worry, it doesn't show.
No,,you're just too thick to see it.

Given only your postings on this forum as evidence, I think Albert Einstein would be too thick to see the effects of your rounded and liberal education on you.
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Leonard James

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2015, 06:45:15 AM »

I'm glad you said it Len.

Sadly, education is not always able to overcome the adverse effects of previously planted ideas.

'andles for forks

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2015, 08:48:05 AM »

I'm glad you said it Len.

Sadly, education is not always able to overcome the adverse effects of previously planted ideas.
Len, I don't think there is a text book that outlines the case for atheism in the core subjects, geography, history, music or art.
It may crop up in RE but let's not forget, lots of atheists are campaigning for atheism to get INTO the curriculum.

So i'm afraid your contention looks like trouser talk.
I like the ''made up in the fourth century'' hypothesis but I also like Bart Ehrman. There's only one way to sort this out. Use contradictory evidence as it suits your argument wheeeeyyyyy!

jeremyp

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2015, 08:58:16 AM »

Len, I don't think there is a text book that outlines the case for atheism in the core subjects, geography, history, music or art.


No, because it is assumed.  In geography, the processes they describe that shape the landscape are assumed to be naturalistic, in history the events are assumed to be caused by humans not gods.  Music is assumed to be written by humans and people are asked to practice their instruments rather than expect divine intervention.  Art is assumed to be created by humans and wherever inspirations comes from, art teachers don't tell us to pray until something pops into our heads.

Quote
It may crop up in RE but let's not forget, lots of atheists are campaigning for atheism to get INTO the curriculum.

It would be a short lesson

Teacher: Can anybody tell me what atheism is?

Johnny: A lack of belief in gods miss.

Teacher: Correct.  Class dismissed.
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'andles for forks

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2015, 09:02:48 AM »

Len, I don't think there is a text book that outlines the case for atheism in the core subjects, geography, history, music or art.


No, because it is assumed.  In geography, the processes they describe that shape the landscape are assumed to be naturalistic, in history the events are assumed to be caused by humans not gods.  Music is assumed to be written by humans and people are asked to practice their instruments rather than expect divine intervention.  Art is assumed to be created by humans and wherever inspirations comes from, art teachers don't tell us to pray until something pops into our heads.

Quote
It may crop up in RE but let's not forget, lots of atheists are campaigning for atheism to get INTO the curriculum.

It would be a short lesson

Teacher: Can anybody tell me what atheism is?

Johnny: A lack of belief in gods miss.

Teacher: Correct.  Class dismissed.

The lesson would match the attention span of the average antitheist.
I like the ''made up in the fourth century'' hypothesis but I also like Bart Ehrman. There's only one way to sort this out. Use contradictory evidence as it suits your argument wheeeeyyyyy!

Maeght

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2015, 09:08:26 AM »
....... let's not forget, lots of atheists are campaigning for atheism to get INTO the curriculum.

Who is campaigning for that and what is it they are actually wanting to happen?

'andles for forks

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2015, 09:09:47 AM »

Len, I don't think there is a text book that outlines the case for atheism in the core subjects, geography, history, music or art.


No, because it is assumed.  In geography, the processes they describe that shape the landscape are assumed to be naturalistic, in history the events are assumed to be caused by humans not gods.  Music is assumed to be written by humans and people are asked to practice their instruments rather than expect divine intervention.  Art is assumed to be created by humans and wherever inspirations comes from, art teachers don't tell us to pray until something pops into our heads.




I agree atheism can be described in terms of THE BIG NON i.e atheism is the lack of belief in God/Gods.

But I disagree that THAT is implicit in textbooks or lessons.

For a curriculum to be atheist it would have to have religion filleted out of it. Particularly in terms of art, music and history
I like the ''made up in the fourth century'' hypothesis but I also like Bart Ehrman. There's only one way to sort this out. Use contradictory evidence as it suits your argument wheeeeyyyyy!

'andles for forks

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2015, 09:14:49 AM »
....... let's not forget, lots of atheists are campaigning for atheism to get INTO the curriculum.

Who is campaigning for that and what is it they are actually wanting to happen?
Young atheists handbook for schools (YAH4schools).
Aloha Shaha the author.
British Humanist Association. 
I like the ''made up in the fourth century'' hypothesis but I also like Bart Ehrman. There's only one way to sort this out. Use contradictory evidence as it suits your argument wheeeeyyyyy!

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2015, 09:25:56 AM »

Len, I don't think there is a text book that outlines the case for atheism in the core subjects, geography, history, music or art.


No, because it is assumed.  In geography, the processes they describe that shape the landscape are assumed to be naturalistic, in history the events are assumed to be caused by humans not gods.  Music is assumed to be written by humans and people are asked to practice their instruments rather than expect divine intervention.  Art is assumed to be created by humans and wherever inspirations comes from, art teachers don't tell us to pray until something pops into our heads.




I agree atheism can be described in terms of THE BIG NON i.e atheism is the lack of belief in God/Gods.

But I disagree that THAT is implicit in textbooks or lessons.

For a curriculum to be atheist it would have to have religion filleted out of it. Particularly in terms of art, music and history
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by a curriculum to be atheist.

What I think is important is that the curriculum specifically recognises that lack of belief in god or gos is a view held by very many people - quite likely a majority of the kids in your average UK classroom. So to clearly indicate that being an atheist is both acceptable and normal. By its exclusion if RE lessons fail to every mention atheism then there is a default assumption that people should be religious, not necessarily any particular religion, but religious.

There is a further point. RE in curriculums is often linked to ethics, and if atheism fails to be mentioned then that helps to perpetuate the myth that ethics is something to do with religion only.

Maeght

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2015, 09:32:25 AM »
....... let's not forget, lots of atheists are campaigning for atheism to get INTO the curriculum.

Who is campaigning for that and what is it they are actually wanting to happen?
Young atheists handbook for schools (YAH4schools).
Aloha Shaha the author.
British Humanist Association.

My understanding of 'Young atheists handbook for schools', written by Aloha Shaha, is that it is a support book for atheists and that the British Humanist Association are looking to ensure that this book is available in all schools. As far as I can see this is part of the NHA's campaign to introduce secularism to or society including schools i.e no privilege or discrimination on grounds of religion or belief. If this is what you were referring to then what is actually wrong with that? If its not, what were you referring to? There should be an awareness of atheism within the school curriculum just as there should be an awareness of religions.

'andles for forks

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2015, 09:55:06 AM »

Len, I don't think there is a text book that outlines the case for atheism in the core subjects, geography, history, music or art.


No, because it is assumed.  In geography, the processes they describe that shape the landscape are assumed to be naturalistic, in history the events are assumed to be caused by humans not gods.  Music is assumed to be written by humans and people are asked to practice their instruments rather than expect divine intervention.  Art is assumed to be created by humans and wherever inspirations comes from, art teachers don't tell us to pray until something pops into our heads.




I agree atheism can be described in terms of THE BIG NON i.e atheism is the lack of belief in God/Gods.

But I disagree that THAT is implicit in textbooks or lessons.

For a curriculum to be atheist it would have to have religion filleted out of it. Particularly in terms of art, music and history
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by a curriculum to be atheist.

What I think is important is that the curriculum specifically recognises that lack of belief in god or gos is a view held by very many people - quite likely a majority of the kids in your average UK classroom. So to clearly indicate that being an atheist is both acceptable and normal. By its exclusion if RE lessons fail to every mention atheism then there is a default assumption that people should be religious, not necessarily any particular religion, but religious.

There is a further point. RE in curriculums is often linked to ethics, and if atheism fails to be mentioned then that helps to perpetuate the myth that ethics is something to do with religion only.
I agree that atheism should be on the curriculum and it's impact on society should be evaluated.

I don't know that being an atheist is acceptable and normal ISN'T accepted in education. If your are saying that Children who have a belief are not accepted and are not normal then I believe you are on dodgy ground.

When you talk about atheism being involved in ethics you are going beyond atheism being merely the lack of belief in Gods which I believe is just a cover to retreat behind whenever nefarious antitheist subterfuge is exposed anyway.

Finally, are the majority of children dyed in the wool atheists...rather than agnostic?
I'm not sure but atheists will have to watch that they don't fall into patterns of indoctrination.
I like the ''made up in the fourth century'' hypothesis but I also like Bart Ehrman. There's only one way to sort this out. Use contradictory evidence as it suits your argument wheeeeyyyyy!

'andles for forks

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2015, 09:59:00 AM »
....... let's not forget, lots of atheists are campaigning for atheism to get INTO the curriculum.

Who is campaigning for that and what is it they are actually wanting to happen?
Young atheists handbook for schools (YAH4schools).
Aloha Shaha the author.
British Humanist Association.

My understanding of 'Young atheists handbook for schools', written by Aloha Shaha, is that it is a support book for atheists and that the British Humanist Association are looking to ensure that this book is available in all schools. As far as I can see this is part of the NHA's campaign to introduce secularism to or society including schools i.e no privilege or discrimination on grounds of religion or belief. If this is what you were referring to then what is actually wrong with that? If its not, what were you referring to? There should be an awareness of atheism within the school curriculum just as there should be an awareness of religions.
I am not against a wide curriculum. Serious Atheism is an increasing world view and therefore there is nothing wrong with books in school libraries from an atheist position.

Len, though believes that the school curriculum naturally leads to atheism....if that were so, why the need for ANY BHA CAMPAIGN?
I like the ''made up in the fourth century'' hypothesis but I also like Bart Ehrman. There's only one way to sort this out. Use contradictory evidence as it suits your argument wheeeeyyyyy!

Shaker

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2015, 10:35:02 AM »
I don't mock religion - religion mocks itself; I just narrate. - Anon.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2015, 10:39:58 AM »
Serious Atheism is an increasing world view
Yay  :D

I have no idea what Serious Atheism is. I have no real idea how any such thing would count as a world view, though to be honest dressing up the vast majority of people's set of mixed up prejudices, desires and reactions as a world view is, in my far from humble opinion, like putting a hat on a WII and saying it is your best friend Charlie

Outrider

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2015, 10:41:04 AM »
When you talk about atheism being involved in ethics you are going beyond atheism being merely the lack of belief in Gods which I believe is just a cover to retreat behind whenever nefarious antitheist subterfuge is exposed anyway.

Atheism has an indirect impact on ethics, as you need to explain the source of your particular view on any given moral point - religious people fall back on 'because God' (not meaning that dismissively, I appreciate there are scriptural citations to support a given point) whereas as atheism becomes more prevalent a moral philosophy has to be supported that does not rely on supernatural agencies for its foundation.

Quote
Finally, are the majority of children dyed in the wool atheists...rather than agnostic?

They are 'default' atheists - they have no concept of a god, and therefore no belief in one.

Again, to note, atheism and agnosticism are not differing positions on the same axis, they are perfectly compatible with each other, and are positions on two fundamentally different questions.

Quote
I'm not sure but atheists will have to watch that they don't fall into patterns of indoctrination.

People remain atheists by not falling prey to patterns on indoctrination. I'm not sure how you'd 'indoctrinate' someone into a position they are born into by default - if we don't mention gods, so children don't consider the idea, are we indoctrinating them? As it is, the best option is to introduce all the various concepts of divinity - at worst you'll get some sort of vague pantheist, and at best an atheist, but the chances of getting someone who picks one particular myth out of the bunch to cling to as 'truth' is diminished.

O.
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Maeght

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Re: Religious and educated?
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2015, 10:52:18 AM »

I am not against a wide curriculum. Serious Atheism is an increasing world view and therefore there is nothing wrong with books in school libraries from an atheist position.

Len, though believes that the school curriculum naturally leads to atheism....if that were so, why the need for ANY BHA CAMPAIGN?

Okay so Len might believe that - so what? That would be his personal view - one I don't necessarily agree with.