Author Topic: Christianity basically is not about good vs evil but about living forever and p  (Read 18534 times)


Outrider

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"Christianity is not about good vs evil but about living forever and power."

Sorry Rose but if that's what you believe about Christianity then you need to get out of that church you have been attending, cause it ain't Christian! It's sounds more like a cult filling your mind with poison.

If that's something you have decided all on your own then you need to get to know Christianity cause you obviously haven't a clue about it.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/464996730254283067/

There you go, folks, Johnny Canoe has spoken, and thus it was... Rather than simply making a declaration, how about making a case, JC?

If you think the history of Christianity does not constitute a quest for eternal life and temporal power, then feel free to explain why.

O.

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ippy

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I suppose making religions, people of faith, neither having any more or any less of a say than everybody else, a level playing field, would make  religious people feel as though they are being controlled, compared to the privileges they enjoy at present.
ippy, I think that the term you were thinking of when you wrote 'religious people' is 'Church of England'.  If not, perhaps you could enumerate the privileges that you believe Buddhists, Methodists, Spiritualists, members of the Churches of Scotland and Wales, Muslims, Pentecostalists, Pagans, Baptists, Hindus, members of the United Reformed Church, Greek and Russian Orthodox Christians, Brethren, Roman Catholics ... enjoy here in the UK.

I'm certain that I wrote,  "I suppose making religions, people of faith".

How would you encompass all people that have or hold a faith or religious beliefs Hope?

We can, all of us can be pedantic about language or continue speaking in a generally understood colloquial way.

It's not difficult to pick holes in many things like writing or speaking but what a pain it would be if we were to describe and say all of the exactly correct words every time we write or speak and if this kind of exactitude were taken up by anyone, who would want to speak to them or read anything they have written about for a second time?   

In short Hope you know exactly what it was I was saying and apart from some fun banter from time to time, which is always good, give it a rest.

ippy

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Mr. Out,
You, like Rose, are misguided about what Christianity is. If you had bothered to listen to the links I posted, you would not have gotten all bent out of shape over the fact that I don't believe Rose is correct on this.

Now if you think that Christianity is about lusting after power, then I have to assume you believe atheism is about the crimes committed by Pol Pot and also about lusting after power. If you can provide a Bible verse that believing in Christ or Christianity, is about lusting for power, please educate me. Hey, that should be no prob right?
Johnny Canoe has NOT spoken, he has WRITTEN!

ippy

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Mr. Out,
We are adults, nobody believes that Christianity is about the crimes committed by people who call themselves Christian. Is atheism about the crimes committed by Pol Pot? Come on now let's not get silly with something as important as this. If you had been adult about it and listen to the links I posted you would get an idea of what Christianity is about. And you would realize Rose is misguided in the extreme on this. Yes, JC has NOT spoken but I have written.

Hi there Woody, Pol Pot may well have been an atheist but he did his wicked doings because he was an extremely nasty person; yes the things he did were terrible but he didn't, unless you know something I don't, do the bad things in the name of atheism, why would he?

Atheism only means we don't believe that there is any such thing as a god or gods and that's it.

I suspect you already know this but there is no argument that can verify the existence of god or gods, that must be frustrating for you and perhaps that's why, not just you, religionists like to keep coming up with this clutching at straws, lame statement.

Oh and by the way you've missed out Starlin & Hitler, Woody they're the other two bad men that did bad things but just like Pol Pot they didn't do their wicked things in the name of atheism.

It's a bit like Canadian's keep on chopping down trees and they don't do it just to be naughty or in the name of atheism,  they only do it because they're: "I'm a Lumberjack and I Don't Care", all summed up very neatly by Messrs Python & Co, so there, that's you dealt with.

ippy

         

Outrider

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You, like Rose, are misguided about what Christianity is. If you had bothered to listen to the links I posted, you would not have gotten all bent out of shape over the fact that I don't believe Rose is correct on this.

I wasn't bent out of shape about you having a different opinion, I was a little bit amused at the colossal arrogance with which you depict that - and indeed every - difference. You say you have a definitive idea of Christianity, and any number of other people from the same limited source materials come up with any number of different takes on it.

Christianity is the sum of the thoughts and activities of those that call themselves Christian, and history will show whether that sum equates to a quest for immortality and temporal power or a tendency towards 'good'.

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Now if you think that Christianity is about lusting after power, then I have to assume you believe atheism is about the crimes committed by Pol Pot and also about lusting after power.

No, I think that authoritarianism - like with Stalin - was the motivation for Pol Pot's atrocities. His atheism neither informed it nor stopped it. There is no path from 'I don't believe your claims of gods' to 'therefore I have to kill my political enemies', unlike the path from 'Gott mit uns' (God is with us) to 'those who are against must be killed'.

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If you can provide a Bible verse that believing in Christ or Christianity, is about lusting for power, please educate me. Hey, that should be no prob right?
Johnny Canoe has NOT spoken, he has WRITTEN!

I don't care whether it's written, what's written is only part of what makes Christianity what it is. What people choose to do because of what's written is what makes Christianity what it is. All the misogyny and homophobia and racism in the Bible would make no difference whatsoever if idiots didn't go and apply it to the real world.

O.
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OH MY WORLD!

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Mr. Out,
Arrogant? Oh please give it a rest. Like you wouldn't have a negative reaction when atheism is lied about. Scripture is the guide for the Christian. So produce a verse that tells me I am following Christianity when lusting for power. You can't, as Christianity is NOT about lusting for power.  You haven't been adult and listened to my links have you?

Outrider

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Arrogant? Oh please give it a rest. Like you wouldn't have a negative reaction when atheism is lied about.

Again you miss the point - it's not THAT you disagree that makes you arrogant. Many, many people here disagree with me on a range of different topics. It's the way you disagree.

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Scripture is the guide for the Christian.

I'm sure the entirety of Christianity will be so glad you made that clear for them, it's not at all arrogant to be defining Christianity for the rest of the world. Is that the golden plates scripture that Smith translated that most Christians don't accept but some do, or the Old Testament tales of Moses and the like that many Christians say has been superseded but many others don't, or is that the New Testament (King James version) which many take as the reality whilst other sects accept various elements of the apocrypha or other translations, or no translations only the original...

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So produce a verse that tells me I am following Christianity when lusting for power. You can't, as Christianity is NOT about lusting for power.  You haven't been adult and listened to my links have you?

No, I haven't listened to your links, I'm afraid I'm not in a situation where I can play audio here. You say Christianity is not about a lust for power, but the history of the middle-ages, and the Papacy in-particular, would seem to suggest that's not the case.

I note that you're not being particularly vocal about the other half, about Christianity being about the quest for eternal life?

O.
Universes are forever, not just for creation...

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OH MY WORLD!

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Yes Mr. Out and your first post about my post wasn't arrogant at all. "Johnny Canoe has spoke" Too funny you.
I see, so what you are telling me is that atheism is basically all about the horrible crimes that Pol Pot and Mao committed. Isn't that a hoot!

Outrider

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Yes Mr. Out and your first post about my post wasn't arrogant at all. "Johnny Canoe has spoke" Too funny you.

Irony hasn't reached Canada yet?

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I see, so what you are telling me is that atheism is basically all about the horrible crimes that Pol Pot and Mao committed. Isn't that a hoot!

Is the inability to get irony a product of the inability to comprehend basic written concepts, or is it separate?

O. HAS WRITTEN!!!
Universes are forever, not just for creation...

New Atheism - because, apparently, there's a use-by date on unanswered questions.

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OH MY WORLD!

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Mr. Out,
Wonderful and thanks for demonstrating your arrogance and hypocrisy again.
So nothing about atheism being basically about the murderous behaviour of Pol Pot and Mao. Noted.

ippy

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Yes Mr. Out and your first post about my post wasn't arrogant at all. "Johnny Canoe has spoke" Too funny you.
I see, so what you are telling me is that atheism is basically all about the horrible crimes that Pol Pot and Mao committed. Isn't that a hoot!

Woody you haven't got a clue about atheism or Pol Pot's motivation.

ippy

Hope

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Hi there Woody, Pol Pot may well have been an atheist but he did his wicked doings because he was an extremely nasty person; yes the things he did were terrible but he didn't, unless you know something I don't, do the bad things in the name of atheism, why would he?
No more or less so than anyone does nasty things 'in the name' of a (non)-belief system, ippy.  Oddly enough, your comment actually reiterates that which johnny said!!
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Shaker

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No, it doesn't reiterate what canoe said at all: canoe stated that atheism was basically about the murderous behaviour of Pol Pot and Mao. Ippy said the opposite.
Porn gives young people wholly unrealistic ideas about how quickly a plumber will get to your house.

ippy

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Hi there Woody, Pol Pot may well have been an atheist but he did his wicked doings because he was an extremely nasty person; yes the things he did were terrible but he didn't, unless you know something I don't, do the bad things in the name of atheism, why would he?
No more or less so than anyone does nasty things 'in the name' of a (non)-belief system, ippy.  Oddly enough, your comment actually reiterates that which johnny said!!

Oh dear Hope, Pol Pot my well have done those things if he happened to be a relogioso, the man was a shit (a modern description of a baddie).

If you think good old Pol did his deeds in the name of atheism; well it's not worth the bother.

ippy

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Hey ya Chopper,
We agree. Mr. Out believes Christianity to be about lust for power. That's a lie, he can't produce any scripture telling us that. But if he wants to walk that road he better be prepared to state that atheism is basically about the murderous actions of atheists like Pol Pot. A human is a human in my book. Just because I am a Christian doesn't mean I haven't messed up or won't in the future. Those mess ups are not what Christianity is about. Was it a mess up for the atheist governments of the USSR to try and kill off belief in God? Or is that basically what your atheism is about? No, atheism isn't about killing belief in God but some atheists have tried and failed to do just that.

ippy

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Hey ya Chopper,
We agree. Mr. Out believes Christianity to be about lust for power. That's a lie, he can't produce any scripture telling us that. But if he wants to walk that road he better be prepared to state that atheism is basically about the murderous actions of atheists like Pol Pot. A human is a human in my book. Just because I am a Christian doesn't mean I haven't messed up or won't in the future. Those mess ups are not what Christianity is about. Was it a mess up for the atheist governments of the USSR to try and kill off belief in God? Or is that basically what your atheism is about? No, atheism isn't about killing belief in God but some atheists have tried and failed to do just that.


Woody you still don't get it.

Why would I or anyone else set up a regime putting all of the Canadian lumberjacks into concentration camps with a view to polishing them all off, based on my non-belief in Unicorns? Or polish them off in the name of aunicornism?

Do you get it now? Anymore than I wold be killing your numerous lumberjacks off because I'm an atheist? In the name of atheism?   

Does that Help Woody?

ippy

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Chopper!! Stop playing so stunted. I AGREE. If I lusted for power that would be NOT BE what Christianity is about. MR. OUT SAYS IT IS. NO, he can't show me that in scripture. But he must also believe that POL POT's murdering rampage was what atheism is about. NOW PAY ATTENTION!! I do NOT believe atheism is about slaughtering people. Pol Pot just happened to be an atheist. A Christian lusting for power is in sin and not living what Christianity is about. Please listen to my link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L-uv2AM6qc

Hope

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No, it doesn't reiterate what canoe said at all: canoe stated that atheism was basically about the murderous behaviour of Pol Pot and Mao. Ippy said the opposite.
No, in his first reference to atheism - posted yesterday at 02:38:30 (post no longer available it would seem - but quoted in ippy's post #55) jc said

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We are adults, nobody believes that Christianity is about the crimes committed by people who call themselves Christian.  Is atheism about the crimes committed by Pol Pot? Come on now let's not get silly with something as important as this.
From even a simple understanding of English, it is obvious that the 'nobody believes' bit in the first sentence is mirrored in the 2nd and 3rd sentences.  Unfortunately, ippy has a habit of misreading or misunderstanding simple English constructions.

In post #54, which still stands, he then said this:

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Now if you think that Christianity is about lusting after power, then I have to assume you believe atheism is about the crimes committed by Pol Pot and also about lusting after power.

All ippy did was to reiterate this understanding!!
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 05:56:42 AM by Hope »
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Hope

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I suppose making religions, people of faith, ..., compared to the privileges they enjoy at present.
ippy, I think that the term you were thinking of when you wrote 'religious people' is 'Church of England'.  If not, perhaps you could enumerate the privileges that you believe Buddhists, Methodists, Spiritualists, members of the Churches of Scotland and Wales, Muslims, Pentecostalists, Pagans, Baptists, Hindus, members of the United Reformed Church, Greek and Russian Orthodox Christians, Brethren, Roman Catholics ... enjoy here in the UK.

I'm certain that I wrote,  "I suppose making religions, people of faith".
You did, ippy. Well done.  You then went on to indicate that you believe that all people of faith enjoy privileges here in the UK (see that section of your original post that I have requoted above).  All I did was ask what privileges various people of faith have here and noting that I thought that most religious privileges here pertain to the Church of England.  Perhaps, rather than trying to back out from your original assertion, you will now answer my question.
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Outrider

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Wonderful and thanks for demonstrating your arrogance and hypocrisy again.

Ah, the time-honoured 'I know you are, but what am I?' defence.

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So nothing about atheism being basically about the murderous behaviour of Pol Pot and Mao.

Atheism is about the behaviour of Pol Pot and Mao? If you'd suggested that the behaviour of Pol Pot and Mao was about their atheism then I'd invite you to fail to make a coherent case, but to suggest that atheism - which existed long before either of them - could be about them...? That's just nonsense.

O.

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ippy

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I suppose making religions, people of faith, ..., compared to the privileges they enjoy at present.
ippy, I think that the term you were thinking of when you wrote 'religious people' is 'Church of England'.  If not, perhaps you could enumerate the privileges that you believe Buddhists, Methodists, Spiritualists, members of the Churches of Scotland and Wales, Muslims, Pentecostalists, Pagans, Baptists, Hindus, members of the United Reformed Church, Greek and Russian Orthodox Christians, Brethren, Roman Catholics ... enjoy here in the UK.

I'm certain that I wrote,  "I suppose making religions, people of faith".
You did, ippy. Well done.  You then went on to indicate that you believe that all people of faith enjoy privileges here in the UK (see that section of your original post that I have requoted above).  All I did was ask what privileges various people of faith have here and noting that I thought that most religious privileges here pertain to the Church of England.  Perhaps, rather than trying to back out from your original assertion, you will now answer my question.

As if someone that has spent the amount of time in education that you tell everybody you have, doesn't know about the privileges most religions have in education here in the UK? Yes the C of E is, as always, in the forefront.

ippy

 

Dicky Underpants

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Scripture is the guide for the Christian.

However, there is a very large body of those who profess to be Christian who would affirm that Sola Scriptura is heresy.

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And that opinion is not scriptural.

"And these things brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another."   1Corinthians 4:6

trippymonkey

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And THAT'S why there's only ONE Christian group !  ;D

Oh Hang on a mo.........  ;) ::)