Author Topic: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'  (Read 5437 times)

jeremyp

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2015, 05:14:27 PM »

But then, if you've decided what their message is before they've had the opportunity to tell you for themselves, then your judgment of her suitability for the job is just you being judgmental, not a reasoned response to the situation.

I haven't decided it, it is the reality of the situation.  By appointing Ms McCarthy a very outspoken vegan to the post, the message is sent automatically.  This is a fact of politics.  If that was not the message intended, then Mr Corbyn can manage it through his media advisors. 
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #51 on: September 16, 2015, 05:37:26 PM »

But then, if you've decided what their message is before they've had the opportunity to tell you for themselves, then your judgment of her suitability for the job is just you being judgmental, not a reasoned response to the situation.

I haven't decided it, it is the reality of the situation.  By appointing Ms McCarthy a very outspoken vegan to the post, the message is sent automatically.  This is a fact of politics.  If that was not the message intended, then Mr Corbyn can manage it through his media advisors.

Is outspoken vegan like a militant atheist?

Udayana

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #52 on: September 16, 2015, 05:41:28 PM »
She was the "World at One" today and sounded entirely reasonable, not outspoken at all.
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Shaker

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #53 on: September 16, 2015, 05:41:44 PM »
Somebody who's a vegan and says so, you mean? In the eyes (unfortunately not the brains) of some that's all it takes to be a "militant atheist."
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jakswan

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #54 on: September 16, 2015, 06:48:07 PM »
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IDS is a disgrace to humanitarian politics, despised and loathed by all who have the best interests of disadvantaged people at heart.
In other words, a Cameronite.

So might we change your original statement to:

'I despise and loathe IDS and so do forty other people who I represent'.

If we take out the rhetoric we might change your statement to:
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 10:09:55 PM by jakswan »
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jeremyp

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #55 on: September 16, 2015, 10:06:58 PM »
Somebody who's a vegan and says so, you mean? In the eyes (unfortunately not the brains) of some that's all it takes to be a "militant atheist."

The  only person so far who has compared her to "militant atheists" is Nearly Sane. I said she was outspoken on the grounds that she has some fairly anti meat farming views and hasn't been afraid to express them.  I do not criticise her for expressing her views even though I don't agree with her. I also do not criticise Corbyn for appointing her except to say that the media reaction was predictable and if he didn't want it, he could have managed it better.
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Outrider

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #56 on: September 17, 2015, 09:11:12 AM »
I haven't decided it, it is the reality of the situation.  By appointing Ms McCarthy a very outspoken vegan to the post, the message is sent automatically.  This is a fact of politics.  If that was not the message intended, then Mr Corbyn can manage it through his media advisors.

No, the message has not been sent - no message has been sent yet. You've made assumptions based on your limited information, nothing more.

That was probably foreseeable, but that doesn't mean that was the message.

O.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #57 on: September 17, 2015, 11:09:52 AM »
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IDS is a disgrace to humanitarian politics, despised and loathed by all who have the best interests of disadvantaged people at heart.
In other words, a Cameronite.

Not a fan of IDS but I do have the best interests of disadvantaged people at heart, I despise and loath people who think they speak for me, you do not.

Whilst I prefer to despise and loathe actions not people I agree completely with this.

Rhiannon

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #58 on: September 17, 2015, 11:12:06 AM »
Are we allowed to toast marshmallows? Or are they too vegan?

O.
Only if they float

They aren't vegan - or vegetarian - as they are made with gelatin.

Rhiannon

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #59 on: September 17, 2015, 11:22:06 AM »
Somebody who's a vegan and says so, you mean? In the eyes (unfortunately not the brains) of some that's all it takes to be a "militant atheist."

The  only person so far who has compared her to "militant atheists" is Nearly Sane. I said she was outspoken on the grounds that she has some fairly anti meat farming views and hasn't been afraid to express them.  I do not criticise her for expressing her views even though I don't agree with her. I also do not criticise Corbyn for appointing her except to say that the media reaction was predictable and if he didn't want it, he could have managed it better.

Agreeing with you, Jeremy. We have a public with little intent to go vegetarian or vegan and the USA with its far lower standards on welfare within farming doing some trade deal with the EU to get its produce on our tables. If Corbyn's new minister has the intent to protect hill farmers whilst improving welfare standards she will be onto a winner but if her policies are the eradication of livestock farming from England and Wales the potential consequences  - loss of livelihoods, yet another increase in farmer suicides, a knock on effect for the landscape and lower rather than higher animal welfare standards - will cost him.

For info:

http://www.fwi.co.uk/farm-life/suicide-investigating-a-farming-taboo.htm

I know Anchorman is aware of the tragic situation with farmers and suicide in Scotland.

Outrider

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #60 on: September 17, 2015, 11:22:55 AM »
Are we allowed to toast marshmallows? Or are they too vegan?

O.
Only if they float

They aren't vegan - or vegetarian - as they are made with gelatin.

That was sort of supposed to be part of the irony... :)

O.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #61 on: September 17, 2015, 11:26:48 AM »
Are we allowed to toast marshmallows? Or are they too vegan?

O.
Only if they float

They aren't vegan - or vegetarian - as they are made with gelatin.

That was sort of supposed to be part of the irony... :)

O.

Vegans don't do irony.

Outrider

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #62 on: September 17, 2015, 11:27:47 AM »
Agreeing with you, Jeremy. We have a public with little intent to go vegetarian or vegan and the USA with its far lower standards on welfare within farming doing some trade deal with the EU to get its produce on our tables.

It gets worse - if TTIP goes through, there's the prospect of American farming companies suing the government if they impose standards above those of the US for lost potential profits as soon as they make any sort of change to the standards.

O.
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Outrider

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #63 on: September 17, 2015, 11:28:41 AM »
Are we allowed to toast marshmallows? Or are they too vegan?

O.
Only if they float

They aren't vegan - or vegetarian - as they are made with gelatin.

That was sort of supposed to be part of the irony... :)

O.

Vegans don't do irony.

I'm pretty sure I was told that spinach and broccoli are high in irony?

O.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #64 on: September 17, 2015, 11:53:46 AM »
Agreeing with you, Jeremy. We have a public with little intent to go vegetarian or vegan and the USA with its far lower standards on welfare within farming doing some trade deal with the EU to get its produce on our tables.

It gets worse - if TTIP goes through, there's the prospect of American farming companies suing the government if they impose standards above those of the US for lost potential profits as soon as they make any sort of change to the standards.

O.

I heard that, although I did hope it was hysterical press speculation.

Apparently not.

Hope

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #65 on: September 17, 2015, 04:39:28 PM »
I heard that, although I did hope it was hysterical press speculation.

Apparently not.
If anything, Rhi, O was probably understating the reality of what could happen.

The US have a number of this kind of agreement - with different parts of the world - I believe.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #66 on: September 17, 2015, 04:49:51 PM »
So if TTIP is indeed worse than this and there are various agreements around the world, can we have cited the cases brought under these which have already happened?

Outrider

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #67 on: September 17, 2015, 04:52:03 PM »
I heard that, although I did hope it was hysterical press speculation.

Apparently not.
If anything, Rhi, O was probably understating the reality of what could happen.

The US have a number of this kind of agreement - with different parts of the world - I believe.
Indeed, TTIP is the start of a race to the loosest regulatory framework setting the standard - on a day when the Tory government announced swingeing cuts to the benefit system, the newspapers were filled with stories of Jeremy Corbyn not singing at a memorial event - what chance something like this gets reasonable time?

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wigginhall

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #68 on: September 17, 2015, 05:27:36 PM »
Good God, man, singing, God, the Queen, wearing a suit - the Empire was built upon these things, upon the playing fields of Eton, 'Forty years on, when afar and asunder, Parted are those who are singing today'.   Ah, what bliss, now where was I? 
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Udayana

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #69 on: September 19, 2015, 06:53:59 PM »
So if TTIP is indeed worse than this and there are various agreements around the world, can we have cited the cases brought under these which have already happened?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement

 - Discusses the issue in some detail and provides examples of previous disputes. Because of the nature of these cases I expect that many are resolved without the need for public disclosure.

Fairly sure this has been discussed before  ???
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #70 on: October 12, 2015, 07:40:31 PM »
Interesting change of plan so that Labour will now vote against Osborne's spending plans.

jakswan

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #71 on: October 12, 2015, 08:44:08 PM »
Interesting change of plan so that Labour will now vote against Osborne's spending plans.

They are voting against fiscal charter, which would require Governments in a growing economy to sustain a surplus.

As I understand it the charter is flaky as hell, the Tories playing politics. 
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Outrider

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #72 on: October 13, 2015, 09:36:28 AM »
Interesting change of plan so that Labour will now vote against Osborne's spending plans.

They are voting against fiscal charter, which would require Governments in a growing economy to sustain a surplus.

As I understand it the charter is flaky as hell, the Tories playing politics.

I'ts pointless, baseless, bullshit attention seeking, so yes the Tories playing politics - that's to be expected of them, no-one's going to be disappointed.

By changing their tune and suddenly deciding to vote against, though, Corbyn's Labour suddenly look like they're playing politics, and they're supposed to be different.

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jakswan

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #73 on: October 13, 2015, 11:03:44 AM »
Interesting change of plan so that Labour will now vote against Osborne's spending plans.

They are voting against fiscal charter, which would require Governments in a growing economy to sustain a surplus.

As I understand it the charter is flaky as hell, the Tories playing politics.

I'ts pointless, baseless, bullshit attention seeking, so yes the Tories playing politics - that's to be expected of them, no-one's going to be disappointed.

By changing their tune and suddenly deciding to vote against, though, Corbyn's Labour suddenly look like they're playing politics, and they're supposed to be different.

Agree Labour would be better off explaining its a total waste of time and just abstain / not bother turning up for the vote.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Potential policies from 'Team Corbyn'
« Reply #74 on: October 13, 2015, 06:46:11 PM »
So to ridicule the bill they were going to vote for it?


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