Author Topic: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament  (Read 3189 times)

2Corrie

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The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« on: October 11, 2015, 09:12:49 PM »
What would the Bereans have made of these scriptures?


But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Micah 5:2


For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6


Your throne, O God, is forever and ever: the scepter of your kingdom is a righteous scepter.7You love righteousness, and hate wickedness: therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.
Psalm 45:6-7, compare with:


I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Daniel 7:13-14


The voice of him that cries in the wilderness, Prepare you the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Isaiah 40:3 (who did John the baptist prepare the way for?)


I, even I, am the LORD; and besides me there is no savior. Isaiah 43:11


Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 14And he shall be as a sanctuary; but a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense to both the houses of Israel, for a trap and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Isaiah 8:13-14. Who is this rock of offense according to the apostle Peter?




Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him (from Ps 2)
"It is finished."

Floo

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2015, 08:45:40 AM »
I am of the opinion the gospel writers wrote up the life of Jesus to make him appear to fit the profile of the expected Jewish messiah! The fact that most Jews didn't recognise him as such speaks volumes!

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2015, 08:49:11 AM »
What would the Bereans have made of these scriptures?


But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Micah 5:2


For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6


Your throne, O God, is forever and ever: the scepter of your kingdom is a righteous scepter.7You love righteousness, and hate wickedness: therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.
Psalm 45:6-7, compare with:


I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Daniel 7:13-14


The voice of him that cries in the wilderness, Prepare you the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Isaiah 40:3 (who did John the baptist prepare the way for?)


I, even I, am the LORD; and besides me there is no savior. Isaiah 43:11


Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 14And he shall be as a sanctuary; but a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense to both the houses of Israel, for a trap and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Isaiah 8:13-14. Who is this rock of offense according to the apostle Peter?




Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him (from Ps 2)

 Good scriptures 2 Corrie a very good post for Christians a blessing for others a prophecy of doom.

  ~TW~


 
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Floo

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2015, 09:26:31 AM »
 ;D ;D ;D

trippymonkey

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2015, 09:33:47 AM »
MMM Can't see anything there about Jesus turning 'His' people into Christians either.

Yes, He was rejected by the far greater majority of Jews as not fulfilling ALL the criteria for The Messiah who was to deliver them from the Romans ??!?!!?

Nick

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2015, 10:21:22 AM »
Using the historical method Jesus didn't say he was god, so not sure how the OT fits.
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Hope

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2015, 10:38:00 AM »
I am of the opinion the gospel writers wrote up the life of Jesus to make him appear to fit the profile of the expected Jewish messiah! The fact that most Jews didn't recognise him as such speaks volumes!
And, in your opinion, what was the profile of this expected messiah, Floo?
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Hope

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2015, 10:40:08 AM »
MMM Can't see anything there about Jesus turning 'His' people into Christians either.
Well, the term 'Christian' was only given to the followers of Christ by the people of Antioch in the mid-40s AD, as a form of abuse, Nick - so obviously even the early Church wouldn't have used the term.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 10:42:30 AM by Hope »
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Sassy

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2015, 10:41:07 AM »
What would the Bereans have made of these scriptures?


But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Micah 5:2



Quote
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6

His name shall called  Son of God (The mighty God) because he not the Son of any God but the one true God. And we know God spoke through him. Deuteronomy 18:18 God was actually there with Christ so yes Where Christ was God was with him. He is the Prince of Peace and the Everlasting Father was with him.
So we Know that Thomas saying " My Lord and My God was him acknowledging God being with Christ there and then.

Quote
Your throne, O God, is forever and ever: the scepter of your kingdom is a righteous scepter.7You love righteousness, and hate wickedness: therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.
Psalm 45:6-7, compare with:
King James Bible
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

As you can see Christ anointed by God.

It is comfirmed in Acts 10:38

Quote
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Daniel 7:13-14

For the Kingdom of God is within you.

It cannot be destroyed because it is a Spiritual Kingdom. That is built on truth and Spirit.




Quote
The voice of him that cries in the wilderness, Prepare you the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Isaiah 40:3 (who did John the baptist prepare the way for?)

Deuteronomy 18:18. They prepared the way for the Messiah whom God would be with and speak through. So they prepared the way for CHRIST and they knew God would be with Christ as he was with Moses speaking directly to them through his words.

I baptise with water. But he who comes after me is greater than I, and will baptise with the Holy Spirit.


Quote
I, even I, am the LORD; and besides me there is no savior. Isaiah 43:11

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten  Son so whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have eternal life.
God sent his son to die and without God saving us that way then we would have no saviour at all.

Quote
Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 14And he shall be as a sanctuary; but a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense to both the houses of Israel, for a trap and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Isaiah 8:13-14. Who is this rock of offense according to the apostle Peter?

They builders rejected the most important stone.
Through the Jews came the PROMISE of the Messiah.
King James Bible
The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.






Quote
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him (from Ps 2)

Summing up the words of Christ best spell it out...
John 17King James Version (KJV)

17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


As you can see both Christ and God together during his ministry.  Eternal life is know the ONLY true God and Jesus Christ who the ONLY TRUE GOD, sent.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 10:43:21 AM by Sassy »
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Hope

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2015, 10:41:24 AM »
Using the historical method Jesus didn't say he was god, so not sure how the OT fits.
But using the literary method - which is of course the equivalent to the OT - he is recorded as having done so.
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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2015, 10:46:13 AM »
Rose could you provide the details please,==One of the criteria for being "the Messiah" was that he ushered in a period of world peace.

where do you get this from.

 ~TW~
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ippy

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2015, 10:48:42 AM »
What would the Bereans have made of these scriptures?


But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Micah 5:2


For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6


Your throne, O God, is forever and ever: the scepter of your kingdom is a righteous scepter.7You love righteousness, and hate wickedness: therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.
Psalm 45:6-7, compare with:


I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Daniel 7:13-14


The voice of him that cries in the wilderness, Prepare you the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Isaiah 40:3 (who did John the baptist prepare the way for?)


I, even I, am the LORD; and besides me there is no savior. Isaiah 43:11


Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 14And he shall be as a sanctuary; but a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense to both the houses of Israel, for a trap and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Isaiah 8:13-14. Who is this rock of offense according to the apostle Peter?




Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him (from Ps 2)

I see that the weather report says there's another wet weekend coming up.

ippy

Hope

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2015, 10:51:07 AM »
Rose could you provide the details please,==One of the criteria for being "the Messiah" was that he ushered in a period of world peace.

where do you get this from.

 ~TW~
It is one of Maimonides' 13 Principles of Faith.  See wikipedia article on Messiah
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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2015, 11:46:42 AM »
Rose could you provide the details please,==One of the criteria for being "the Messiah" was that he ushered in a period of world peace.

where do you get this from.

 ~TW~
It is one of Maimonides' 13 Principles of Faith.  See wikipedia article on Messiah

Hope I am not interested in what   Maimonide says or wikipedia But I do take notice of what my Lord has to say


                  34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36     a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.


 ~TW~
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Floo

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2015, 11:49:16 AM »
 ;D ;D ;D

trippymonkey

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2015, 11:53:21 AM »
TW
Sounds a right ....... Please insert offensive detail as appropriate !!!

Floo

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2015, 12:13:55 PM »
TW
Sounds a right ....... Please insert offensive detail as appropriate !!!

It is better to laugh at such garbage than use naughty words, imo.

~TW~

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2015, 12:19:40 PM »
Rose if you are going to start post/thread,please pick a subject you know something about.

                  ~TW~
" Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs/George Burns

Leonard James

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2015, 12:34:20 PM »
Rose if you are going to start post/thread,please pick a subject you know something about.

                  ~TW~

I think what you mean is "agree with me all the time and there will be no problem".

Floo

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2015, 12:38:34 PM »
Rose if you are going to start post/thread,please pick a subject you know something about.

                  ~TW~

Take your own advice, you just make it up as you go along! ;D ;D ;D

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2015, 12:44:35 PM »
Quote



 Rose if you are going to start post/thread,please pick a subject you know something about.

                  ~TW~


Re posted for TW

 I do know something about it, because I went and found out what the Jews expected of a Messiah.

I'm not going to accept Christian theology uncritically unlike many Christians.

Nor am I going to be intimidated by Christians who believe in their own theology more than anything else and who would like to silence me.

Probably because they haven't been taught how to answer real questions.

There is no reason why I should accept anyone's theology.


Not all Christians accept all of each other's theology anyway.


If you expect me to couch my questions safely within your own theology then you are going to be out of luck.

 so rose then you must accept your facts  ;D are in a muddle you have told a third temple is required and you do not know why,you have told us the jews need to return to Israel and you do not know why.

 And in the last book of the bible which is a blessing for those that understand it {like me}------  3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Also one group of jews are are called a synagogue of Satan-----! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Strange these people were Jews but Jesus says they are not,did you ask your Jewish friends why then also we read ,all Israel is not Israel.------It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.Romans 9:6.

So Rose a third temple !no :) do a bit more study or should I say start again.

    ~TW~

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jakswan

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2015, 12:50:10 PM »
Using the historical method Jesus didn't say he was god, so not sure how the OT fits.
But using the literary method - which is of course the equivalent to the OT - he is recorded as having done so.

I don't know what that method is, please expand.
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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2015, 01:07:31 PM »
Rose I take my information from scripture the links you sent were what men say/hearsay,I prefer what Jesus says.

 ~TW~
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DaveM

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2015, 01:12:20 PM »
MMM Can't see anything there about Jesus turning 'His' people into Christians either.

Yes, He was rejected by the far greater majority of Jews as not fulfilling ALL the criteria for The Messiah who was to deliver them from the Romans ??!?!!?

Nick

One of the criteria for being "the Messiah" was that he ushered in a period of world peace.

No one has managed that one yet, although many have claimed to be.

Xxxxxxxxx

The Messiah was supposed to

Ezekiel 37:26-28: Build the Third Temple

Isaiah 43:5-6: Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel

Isaiah 2:4: Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore."

Zechariah 14:9: Spread universal knowledge of the G-d of Israel - uniting the entire human race as one: "G-d will be King over all the world—on that day, G-d will be One and His Name will be One"

If a candidate fails one he fails them all.
We are certainly seeing some like Isaiah 43 coming to fruition.  Then considering that a thousand years are like a day or a watch in the night in the Lord's eyes why not give Him a few more minutes to completely fulfil the others?

BeRational

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Re: The Deity of Christ in the Old Testament
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2015, 01:27:33 PM »
Rose I take my information from scripture the links you sent were what men say/hearsay,I prefer what Jesus says.

 ~TW~

You cannot be sure you have any of the words uttered by Jesus.

You also have what men wrote down as hearsay.

It could all be made up fantasy and you have no way to rule this out.
I see gullible people, everywhere!