Author Topic: Deeds not words  (Read 40004 times)

Sassy

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #200 on: May 31, 2016, 06:21:55 AM »
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Now you look stupid...
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Quote from: Khatru on May 30, 2016, 12:53:34 PM
There are many people who do all of the above without needing to be told to do so by an imaginary being.
Name them...
Where were those people who came across Julie all those years and did nothing...

The fact is that God is not an imaginary being but even at your level of thinking he still gets more done than those many people whom you cannot name but did nothing in this case.

Where were they then?
You tell us....you name them, go on.

Were those 'do nothing' people all atheists, all agnostics or were some of them maybe, just maybe - Christians?

The fact is I am the only Christian who helped Julie, there was not one atheist that could be named.

So who looks stupid now... YOU DO!
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #201 on: May 31, 2016, 06:24:21 AM »
So far the only weddings my kids have been to have been in church but I try to get out of as many of the wretched things as I can. I'm with Colin Firth on weddings - when everyone else is weeping with emotion I'm weeping with boredom. Hence I think the practice of boring harvest festivals and carol services useful.

Yeah! Why would you care about sharing close family or friends special day and being there for support.

I suppose you never got married because weddings are so boring. If you did get married I guess you had a quickie registry office wedding with no friends and family just two witnesses pulled off the streets.

Yeah right!
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #202 on: May 31, 2016, 07:57:14 AM »
No! They should be given all the choices and allowed to make the decision.

A parent does not always know best. If we choose we choose according to what we believe.
I wasn't saying what I think should be the case, I was telling you what the current legal position is. And indeed you are correct that most parents will make a decision on the basis of their own beliefs - that said although there are very few actively religious people in the UK (including parents) very few parents decide to remove their children from active religious worship at school. They don't really want to rock the boat.

But children have a natural belief in God which is unaltered if allowed to blossom on it's own.
What planet are you on - most kids (if they had a choice) would happily exempt themselves from religious worship at school. At best they find it boring, at worse pointless and completely wrong. Don't forget that children, once they have reached the age where they can really exercise a choice, are the least religious of all in our population.

I believe that eventually we all make our own choice. But atheists have no right to dictate what goes on in a Christian School.
Hmm, so is it your view that the children of parents who would want to remove their kids from religious worship at school should be given the right to attend against their parents wishes - but you seem to be implying that kids who don't wan't to attend against their parents wishes should still have to attend. So the kids have a choice, but only if they agree with you.

This Country has become a less moral and more hurtful place since they tried to get rid of Christianity and it's moral concepts.

In truth the godless are the ones committing the offences regardless of the walk of life they come from.

It isn't a class thing now it is a damn right of a false cry of 'live and let live' but only if it is by the atheists rules.
Rubbish - in all sorts of respects our country is far, far more moral and respectful than it has ever been. Back in your 'Christianity' days we used to systematically discriminate against people if they weren't male, or white, or straight. All of those things were morally abhorrent and we have made great strides (we aren't quite there yet) in moving to a fundamentally more moral situation in which we respect people for whom they are regardless of their gender, race or sexuality.

floo

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #203 on: May 31, 2016, 08:34:20 AM »
"But children have a natural belief in God which is unaltered if allowed to blossom on it's own."

That is not true, my grandson certainly didn't. When he was two he asked his mother why she believed in Jesus as she couldn't see, feel or hear him!

I didn't naturally believe in god either as a child, I gave into the pressure I was under to get saved eventually, but not until I was eleven.

Sassy

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #204 on: May 31, 2016, 08:47:47 AM »
I wasn't saying what I think should be the case, I was telling you what the current legal position is. And indeed you are correct that most parents will make a decision on the basis of their own beliefs - that said although there are very few actively religious people in the UK (including parents) very few parents decide to remove their children from active religious worship at school. They don't really want to rock the boat.

Judging by the posts on this forum, seems some more than willing to rock the boat and sail it.
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What planet are you on - most kids (if they had a choice) would happily exempt themselves from religious worship at school. At best they find it boring, at worse pointless and completely wrong. Don't forget that children, once they have reached the age where they can really exercise a choice, are the least religious of all in our population.

I believe religious studies did not bother anyone till we had other foreigners enter the country then want to teach their own religion in predominantly Christian Schools. I also believe that it is good for children to learn about all religions.
But you cannot call Religious Education brain washing. I live on planet earth as where else would you find life? :D
As for the last comment....I am the opposite proof that where a child does not lose the knowledge of the presence of God from childhood they never turn away from it.

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Hmm, so is it your view that the children of parents who would want to remove their kids from religious worship at school should be given the right to attend against their parents wishes - but you seem to be implying that kids who don't wan't to attend against their parents wishes should still have to attend. So the kids have a choice, but only if they agree with you.

I didn't say that... I said:
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I believe that eventually we all make our own choice. But atheists have no right to dictate what goes on in a Christian School.
I said we eventually make our own choice. ATHEISTS have no right to dictate what goes on in a Christian School.
School is about education I believe it is wrong to suggest religious education is brain washing. As I believe science is not brainwashing... Only teaching no God and science as if it relates to God is the real serious brain washing that can be done by atheists in a school. But Children are not idiots and we in schools do not tell them what to believe we simply present the facts and let them choose. 1+ 1 = 2 but it won't make them bad or good to know this. Won't add to their stature but might stop them getting ripped off. :)


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Rubbish - in all sorts of respects our country is far, far more moral and respectful than it has ever been.

Really! and they say Christians wear Rose Coloured Spectacles.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/six-men-charged-connection-child-10749311

Six men charged in connection with child sexual exploitation in Rochdale.


Joshim Miah, 31, of Yorkshire Street, Rochdale , has been charged with two counts of rape and one count of trafficking a person within the UK for sexual exploitation. The charges relate to one alleged victim.

Mohammed Sadeer, 27, of Brimrod Lane, Rochdale, has been charged with one count of rape, relating to one complainant.

Naheem Akhram, 39, of Manley Road, Rochdale, has been charged with one count of rape, which relates to one alleged victim.

A fourth man, who cannot be named for legal reasons, has been charged with four counts of rape relating to two people.

Ittefaq Yousaf, 25, of Stanley Street, Rochdale, has been charged with one count of sexual assault and one count of causing/inciting a girl to engage in sexual activity. These charges relate to two alleged victims.

Arfan Iqbal, 25, of Park Road, Rochdale, has been charged with one count of attempted rape, relating to one person.

All six men are due before Bury and Rochdale Magistrates Court on Thursday, January 21


Spot the English, Scottish or Welsh man amongst them. They call the British people and insult us. Treat their own women
badly. They abused our children... Where is their respect for our Country and way of life. When did our children become second class citizens and abuse fodder for foreigners. Respect... in your dreams

How many celebrities have been accused of molesting children? How many so called respected people turned a blind eye?
We have become the breeding ground for those who call themselves moral to do their immoral acts using our children.
Nah! No such moral or respect exists.

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Back in your 'Christianity' days we used to systematically discriminate against people if they weren't male, or white, or straight. All of those things were morally abhorrent and we have made great strides (we aren't quite there yet) in moving to a fundamentally more moral situation in which we respect people for whom they are regardless of their gender, race or sexuality.
I have news for you... there are more atheist who discriminate against people if they were male, or white or straight.
In parts of America racism is as bad as ever. Christians do no discriminate against anyone not being male, female, white or straight.

In Christ there is no male or female, Jew or Gentile, Black or White. We are the body of Christ representative of the things Christ did.

Your discrimination against Christians is quite plain to see. I have don't have problems with the above.

We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

floo

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #205 on: May 31, 2016, 09:02:58 AM »
Child abusers come from ALL walks of life, religions, colour or creed. Think how many Christians have abused children, the pastor at our Pentecostal church touched me up when I was 14!

Gordon

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #206 on: May 31, 2016, 09:57:29 AM »

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/six-men-charged-connection-child-10749311

Six men charged in connection with child sexual exploitation in Rochdale.


Joshim Miah, 31, of Yorkshire Street, Rochdale , has been charged with two counts of rape and one count of trafficking a person within the UK for sexual exploitation. The charges relate to one alleged victim.

Mohammed Sadeer, 27, of Brimrod Lane, Rochdale, has been charged with one count of rape, relating to one complainant.

Naheem Akhram, 39, of Manley Road, Rochdale, has been charged with one count of rape, which relates to one alleged victim.

A fourth man, who cannot be named for legal reasons, has been charged with four counts of rape relating to two people.

Ittefaq Yousaf, 25, of Stanley Street, Rochdale, has been charged with one count of sexual assault and one count of causing/inciting a girl to engage in sexual activity. These charges relate to two alleged victims.

Arfan Iqbal, 25, of Park Road, Rochdale, has been charged with one count of attempted rape, relating to one person.

All six men are due before Bury and Rochdale Magistrates Court on Thursday, January 21


Spot the English, Scottish or Welsh man amongst them. They call the British people and insult us. Treat their own women
badly. They abused our children... Where is their respect for our Country and way of life. When did our children become second class citizens and abuse fodder for foreigners. Respect... in your dreams

How do you know the nationality of those named?

Unless there is more information in this link, and if so you haven't mentioned it, these people could well be UK citizens. Since you mention 'Scottish', I'd add that two of my grandson's friends have traditional Asian names and they are no less 'Scottish' than is my grandson.

Your post could be read as being racist, given that you are generalising from this one case, even if that wasn't the impression you intended to give.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #207 on: May 31, 2016, 10:22:52 AM »
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The fact is I am the only Christian who helped Julie, there was not one atheist that could be named.

Where were all the other Christians that could have helped Julie?

Seems a pretty poor response from your fellow believers. Only one person in the whole world - or did a Hindu or a Muslim help as well??
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Rhiannon

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #208 on: May 31, 2016, 10:24:35 AM »
Perhaps the others didn't make such a point of telling everyone.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #209 on: May 31, 2016, 10:26:02 AM »
Perhaps the others didn't make such a point of telling everyone.

Well that could be the case - but Sassy is pretty definite that she was the only Christian to help.  ???
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Owlswing

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #210 on: May 31, 2016, 10:57:06 AM »

Well that could be the case - but Sassy is pretty definite that she was the only Christian to help.  ???


Sassy is pretty (should read extremely, totally, utterly) definite in absolutely everything that she posts, even when it is known, by everyone except Sassy, to be total and utter rubbish and Fundamentalist Christian propaganda with no basis in truth - except, of course, her definition of "the Truth".
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Khatru

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #211 on: May 31, 2016, 11:12:24 AM »
But atheists have no right to dictate what goes on in a Christian School.


If that school is falling below the standards of education that we expect from our schools then the state/local authority has every right to intervene.

It doesn't really matter what the ju-ju is, whether it be Christian, Islamic, Jewish, etc, that is not the issue.

Personally I would see all faith schools abolished as they are divisive and place their superstitious mumbo jumbo ahead of Maths, English, Sciences, etc
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Owlswing

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #212 on: May 31, 2016, 11:59:04 AM »
If that school is falling below the standards of education that we expect from our schools then the state/local authority has every right to intervene.

It doesn't really matter what the ju-ju is, whether it be Christian, Islamic, Jewish, etc, that is not the issue.

Personally I would see all faith schools abolished as they are divisive and place their superstitious mumbo jumbo ahead of Maths, English, Sciences, etc

Ah, but it has been posted on here that it is Sciences that are the mumbo-jumbo.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 03:43:01 PM by Owlswing »
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Rhiannon

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #213 on: May 31, 2016, 12:39:42 PM »
Yeah! Why would you care about sharing close family or friends special day and being there for support.

I suppose you never got married because weddings are so boring. If you did get married I guess you had a quickie registry office wedding with no friends and family just two witnesses pulled off the streets.

Yeah right!

If only I were more like you, Sass.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #214 on: May 31, 2016, 12:42:56 PM »
Christians do no discriminate against anyone not being male, female, white or straight.
What planet are you on Sassy?

Religious organisations, including Christian ones, are the last bastions of institutionalised discrimination in the UK, sadly. So just taking our two largest Christian denominations in the UK, the CofE and RCC. Both overtly discriminate against gay people, refusing to permit openly gay people attain positions of responsibility (e.g. priest, Bishop etc) within their organisations and/or blocking their promotion within the church due to their sexuality.

Both fail to provide complete equality on there basis of gander - so women are completely banned from becoming priests etc in the RCC, and while the CofE does allow women priests and latterly bishops there isn't complete equality as congregations can demand to the placed under the authority of a male bishop if they don't like a woman being in that position, but the converse isn't the case.

On race, well there is little overt discrimination, but there is little evidence that there is equality in practice. Given that the RCC and the wider Anglican community (lead by the Archbishop of Canterbury) are likely majority black organisations it seems somewhat odd (if there is equality in practice) that we have seen neither a black pope, nor a black ABofC.

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #215 on: May 31, 2016, 12:50:05 PM »


The fact is I am the only Christian who helped Julie, there was not one atheist that could be named.

So who looks stupid now... YOU DO!
Of all of the other people who came across Julie and did not help in the past - were none of those people Christians?
Name all of those people who did not help her in the past and give their religion.
Go on.....
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
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Sebastian Toe

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #216 on: May 31, 2016, 02:25:19 PM »
since February when I contacted the people including mp and chased them, he made sure she got her electric supply.

Is the MP, who made sure that she got her electric supply, a Christian?
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
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Brownie

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #217 on: May 31, 2016, 03:18:17 PM »
Rhiannon said, yesterday:  This whole thread makes me uncomfortable. I don't like the question asked and I don't like the nature of some of the replies either.

I feel a bit queasy about it, tried to respond but not sure I could get across precisely what I meant.  Not to worry.  I'm sure we all do what we can when we can, how much varies from time to time, but we don't really want to talk about unless there is a sound reason.  There is a good reason sometimes. 

The very title is - 'goading', for want of a better word.  I don't know why (edit:) Floo started it.
(I originally put "Sassy" instead of floo, came back and altered it, very sorry)
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 06:26:44 PM by Brownie »
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Owlswing

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #218 on: May 31, 2016, 03:52:50 PM »


The very title is - 'goading', for want of a better word.  I don't know why Sassy started it, it's not her usual.


Sassy, NOT goading!

I am sorry Brownie but she does nothing else.

Anyone who dares to question her interpretation of the bible, its contents and/or the interpretation thereof is immediaely dismissed as ignorant and not knowing what they are talking about!

The fact that it is the "revealed Word of God" should make it entirely unnecessary for it to be interpreted by mere humans! Even one so erudite on the bible as Sassy.

She even has the gall to inform me that I don't know what paganism is all about. How does she know this? Because she knows ONE witch! One witch who probably tells her just what she wants to hear just to shut her up.

I seerm to remember that you have claimed Sassy as a personal friend - this friendship seems, at times anyway, to blind you to the Sassy that others on her see.
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Enki

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #219 on: May 31, 2016, 05:53:40 PM »
Rhiannon said, yesterday:  This whole thread makes me uncomfortable. I don't like the question asked and I don't like the nature of some of the replies either.

I feel a bit queasy about it, tried to respond but not sure I could get across precisely what I meant.  Not to worry.  I'm sure we all do what we can when we can, how much varies from time to time, but we don't really want to talk about unless there is a sound reason.  There is a good reason sometimes. 

The very title is - 'goading', for want of a better word.  I don't know why Sassy started it, it's not her usual.

She didn't.  Floo did.
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Brownie

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #220 on: May 31, 2016, 06:22:58 PM »
Ive just noticed, so sorry to Sassy!
I was reading a couple of your posts on this thread Sass and that must have been where the connection was made. 
 :-[ :-[ :-[

So sorry to Floo too, I've amended the original post and explained.  Hopefully.  :-[ :-[ :-[

Owl, I don't have ''personal friends'' on forums.  You have to spend time and break bread with someone before you become friends.  On forums there are people whose humour you appreciate, find their posts interesting, come across as genuinely decent people, and as far as that goes, I like most fellow posters but I don't know them and they don't know me.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 06:35:19 PM by Brownie »
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Hope

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #221 on: May 31, 2016, 07:08:11 PM »
So far the only weddings my kids have been to have been in church but I try to get out of as many of the wretched things as I can. I'm with Colin Firth on weddings - when everyone else is weeping with emotion I'm weeping with boredom. Hence I think the practice of boring harvest festivals and carol services useful.
Who says that everyone else is weeping with emotion, Rhi.  I've been to several weddings (though not as many as I might as most of my friends got married whilst i was living abroad), and never wept.  Instead, I feel that I'm there to support the couple and their families in their promises.  A far more positive, interesting and involving process than either weeping or being bored.  After all, why else would they have invited me to the wedding (unless it was to do the sound/projection/music, etc)?
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Shaker

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #222 on: May 31, 2016, 07:30:00 PM »
Supporting the couple and their families in their promises, besides being an odd idea in itself, for a few hours on just one day at the very start of the marriage seems downright peculiar, given that it's the months, years, even decades following when any such support is more likely to be needed. 
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Rhiannon

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #223 on: May 31, 2016, 07:47:13 PM »
I was going to make exactly the same point.

Khatru

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Re: Deeds not words
« Reply #224 on: May 31, 2016, 09:59:38 PM »
Ah, but it has been posted on here that it is Sciences that are the mumbo-jumbo.

Yes indeed, no doubt by people like Dr Georgia Purdom who sometimes writes for "Answers In Genesis"

If anyone has the intestinal fortitude, they can get her take on science right here....

www.scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/03/16/shermer-at-the-creation-museum/

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Ugh. Georgia Purdom is a blind weasel: for example, she berates Christian evolutionists for “interpreting” the bible instead of reading it literally, and then says, "We know from scripture that the earth is no more than 6000 years old:. The bible says nothing of the kind. That is a product of peculiar interpretations of the book.

Then when Shermer presses her on what kinds of experiments she would do to test her assertions, she says," We wouldn’t do that because we know there’s no point in doing that, because the Bible has the answer.” There’s no science there; that’s a plain admission.

"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

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