Author Topic: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?  (Read 8387 times)

Owlswing

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Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some do what you must!

jeremyp

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2015, 08:59:49 PM »
Where to start...
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Owlswing

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2015, 09:22:15 PM »

Where to start...


Anywhere you like.
If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some do what you must!

Rhiannon

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2015, 10:16:17 PM »
Perhaps Jeremy could start by saying what it is that you and I both 'believe', Owlswing.

jeremyp

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2015, 10:28:57 PM »
Perhaps Jeremy could start by saying what it is that you and I both 'believe', Owlswing.
He did't specify that the beliefs had to be yours and Owlswing's.

Paganism covers a multitude of beliefs. Many of them are clearly not true. I'd be pretty confident that none of the gods actually exist, for example.
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trippymonkey

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2015, 10:55:06 PM »
oh j
I thought you were talking about Christianity for a mo then ?!!?!? ;) :o

Leonard James

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2015, 06:15:26 AM »

He did't specify that the beliefs had to be yours and Owlswing's.

Paganism covers a multitude of beliefs. Many of them are clearly not true. I'd be pretty confident that none of the gods actually exist, for example.

Me too!

Like religion, paganism is belief in the truth of what is nothing more than human romancing.

Emergence-The Musical

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2015, 08:29:57 AM »

He did't specify that the beliefs had to be yours and Owlswing's.

Paganism covers a multitude of beliefs. Many of them are clearly not true. I'd be pretty confident that none of the gods actually exist, for example.

Me too!

Like religion, paganism is belief in the truth of what is nothing more than human romancing.
What's more dangerous though, paganism or the simpering, sentimental self congratulation and self righteousness of secular humanism?
wwaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggghhhhhh.......I FEAST on Sh*te New Atheist argument.

Outrider

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2015, 08:51:31 AM »

He did't specify that the beliefs had to be yours and Owlswing's.

Paganism covers a multitude of beliefs. Many of them are clearly not true. I'd be pretty confident that none of the gods actually exist, for example.

Me too!

Like religion, paganism is belief in the truth of what is nothing more than human romancing.
What's more dangerous though, paganism or the simpering, sentimental self congratulation and self righteousness of secular humanism?

Vlad, are you taking time off from beating your wife just to post here?

O.
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Owlswing

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2015, 12:06:17 PM »
Perhaps Jeremy could start by saying what it is that you and I both 'believe', Owlswing.

Good idea!

NO!!!


Great idea!
If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some do what you must!

Owlswing

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2015, 12:10:53 PM »
Perhaps Jeremy could start by saying what it is that you and I both 'believe', Owlswing.
He did't specify that the beliefs had to be yours and Owlswing's.

Paganism covers a multitude of beliefs. Many of them are clearly not true. I'd be pretty confident that none of the gods actually exist, for example.

OK - presuming that you are one of the many atheists on this Forum, you are not alone in that and it is a view that is hardly peculiar to the Pagan deities - we have both male and female - we are not patriarchal and are of the view that without both male and female there is no life in the higher forms of life upon this planet. I am not sure what the highest form of life that can procreate without both sexes is but it is not very high on the ladder, of that I AM sure.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 06:56:48 PM by Owlswing »
If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some do what you must!

Owlswing

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2015, 12:11:43 PM »
oh j

I thought you were talking about Christianity for a mo then ?!!?!? ;) :o


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If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some do what you must!

Owlswing

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2015, 12:13:17 PM »

He did't specify that the beliefs had to be yours and Owlswing's.

Paganism covers a multitude of beliefs. Many of them are clearly not true. I'd be pretty confident that none of the gods actually exist, for example.

Me too!

Like religion, paganism is belief in the truth of what is nothing more than human romancing.
What's more dangerous though, paganism or the simpering, sentimental self congratulation and self righteousness of secular humanism?

Do me a favour, if you cannot post a sensible argument piss off with the -isms!
If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some do what you must!

ippy

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2015, 06:51:29 PM »
Paganism strikes me it's like another one of those beliefs where is it really worth even a minute or twos worth of bother, I very much doubt it is.

ippy

trippymonkey

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2015, 06:54:28 PM »
AAH So you admit you know naff all about it ?!?!? ;) ::)

Owlswing

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2015, 07:02:44 PM »
Paganism strikes me it's like another one of those beliefs where is it really worth even a minute or twos worth of bother, I very much doubt it is.

ippy

I would have thought that you would have seen that I have posted more often than I can think of that I consider MY religious beliefs to be a matter of faith, not proven reality - I consider your LACK of belief to be equally a matter of faith!

I should have realised that I would not be able to get a straight answer to my OP question from just about anyone on this forum. They will denigrate and dismiss and diss my beliefs but not one of them can tell me why with any specifity!

Sassy, Hope, Censored, and all the rest of you hide-bound Christians - tell me in what way my beliefs are "in error". With the exception, of course, of the flat statement that "the bible says so"!
If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some do what you must!

jeremyp

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2015, 10:33:29 PM »

OK - presuming that you are one of the many atheists on this Forum, you are not alone in that and it is a view that is hardly peculiar to the Pagan deities
I don't believe I ever claimed that it was.

I am correct in assuming that at least some pagans believe in a god or gods aren't I?

Quote
we have both male and female - we are not patriarchal and are of the view that without both male and female there is no life in the higher forms of life upon this planet. I am not sure what the highest form of life that can procreate without both sexes is but it is not very high on the ladder, of that I AM sure.
There's a belief that probably isn't true. The concept that some forms of life are "higher" than others is highly questionable. As humans we have a prejudiced point of view. However, on many objective criteria we lose. E. coli is far more successful than human kind in numerical terms and will probably outlast us.
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Owlswing

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2015, 11:45:51 PM »

OK - presuming that you are one of the many atheists on this Forum, you are not alone in that and it is a view that is hardly peculiar to the Pagan deities
I don't believe I ever claimed that it was.

I am correct in assuming that at least some pagans believe in a god or gods aren't I?[/quote}

Almost all Pagans believe in at least one god or goddess and more than a few believe in quite a few of both. Your point is?

And where does in male P{gan belief "in error"?

Quote
we have both male and female - we are not patriarchal and are of the view that without both male and female there is no life in the higher forms of life upon this planet. I am not sure what the highest form of life that can procreate without both sexes is but it is not very high on the ladder, of that I AM sure.
There's a belief that probably isn't true. The concept that some forms of life are "higher" than others is highly questionable. As humans we have a prejudiced point of view. However, on many objective criteria we lose. E. coli is far more successful than human kind in numerical terms and will probably outlast us.

Where is the rror of pagan belief in having deities of bath sexes?

If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some do what you must!

ippy

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2015, 11:51:01 PM »
Paganism strikes me it's like another one of those beliefs where is it really worth even a minute or twos worth of bother, I very much doubt it is.

ippy

I would have thought that you would have seen that I have posted more often than I can think of that I consider MY religious beliefs to be a matter of faith, not proven reality - I consider your LACK of belief to be equally a matter of faith!

I should have realised that I would not be able to get a straight answer to my OP question from just about anyone on this forum. They will denigrate and dismiss and diss my beliefs but not one of them can tell me why with any specifity!

Sassy, Hope, Censored, and all the rest of you hide-bound Christians - tell me in what way my beliefs are "in error". With the exception, of course, of the flat statement that "the bible says so"!

It would be rational to take absolute proof of anything and accept it.

Everything I have seen and have heard points to man made, when anyone refers to these superstitious, magical and mythical beliefs such as the beliefs, the ones mentioned on this thread.

I've yet to see or hear anything convincing that would or could support any of these beliefs, all, any of them are able to do is assert the magical, mystical and superstition based parts, that without them, every one of them falls apart.

You could call me a man of faith, I do have faith that these rather dated beliefs will eventually go off in the same way as the beliefs or faiths in Zeus, Wotan, Thor, Cargo Cults etc, it's just a matter of time, mind you there'll allways be a few stubborn hangers on, appart from them.

ippy

Owlswing

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2015, 12:07:26 AM »
Paganism strikes me it's like another one of those beliefs where is it really worth even a minute or twos worth of bother, I very much doubt it is.

ippy

I would have thought that you would have seen that I have posted more often than I can think of that I consider MY religious beliefs to be a matter of faith, not proven reality - I consider your LACK of belief to be equally a matter of faith!

I should have realised that I would not be able to get a straight answer to my OP question from just about anyone on this forum. They will denigrate and dismiss and diss my beliefs but not one of them can tell me why with any specifity!

Sassy, Hope, Censored, and all the rest of you hide-bound Christians - tell me in what way my beliefs are "in error". With the exception, of course, of the flat statement that "the bible says so"!

It would be rational to take absolute proof of anything and accept it.


So give me absolute proof of the non-existence of the deities of my Pagan belief.

Quote


Everything I have seen and have heard points to man made, when anyone refers to these superstitious, magical and mythical beliefs such as the beliefs, the ones mentioned on this thread.

I've yet to see or hear anything convincing that would or could support any of these beliefs, all, any of them are able to do is assert the magical, mystical and superstition based parts, that without them, every one of them falls apart.


What beliefs? What magical based parts? What mystical based parts/ What superstition based paarts?

Quote

You could call me a man of faith, I do have faith that these rather dated beliefs will eventually go off in the same way as the beliefs or faiths in Zeus, Wotan, Thor, Cargo Cults etc, it's just a matter of time, mind you there'll allways be a few stubborn hangers on, apart from them.

ippy

Which, to any Pagan, demonstrates your abject ignorance.

There are Pagans today who follow the Greek Gods and Goddesses; there are Pagans who refer to their branch of Paganism as Asatru, to themselves as Heathens, and follow the entire pantheon of Norse Gods and Goddesses, including Wotan and Thor.

And I would doubt that anyone except a Christian Missionary would refer to the South Sea Islander's Cargo Cults as being pagan 
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 02:19:04 PM by Owlswing »
If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some do what you must!

Nearly Sane

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2015, 06:37:07 AM »
I am not sure the concept of absolute proof is rational.

torridon

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2015, 07:30:47 AM »
Paganism strikes me it's like another one of those beliefs where is it really worth even a minute or twos worth of bother, I very much doubt it is.

ippy

I would have thought that you would have seen that I have posted more often than I can think of that I consider MY religious beliefs to be a matter of faith, not proven reality - I consider your LACK of belief to be equally a matter of faith!


That makes no sense to me, nobody has a faith in things unbelieved.  If we hold to positive claims, then it is those positive claims that require justification, and as far as I can see on this thread you have made no attempt to explain the grounds that justify your faith, rather you have indulged in diversionary tactics and avoidance.

Rhiannon

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2015, 10:12:20 AM »
I've yet to meet a pagan who thinks that he or she 'knows' what deity is or even if it exists. We have experiences; some of us have a framework through which to understand them, we form 'beliefs' about them. Some of these beliefs involve gods, some don't. But I don't think many pagans think their beliefs/experiences are accurate and objective; we know we've got it wrong, we just find a way that works for us - sometimes others too.

Emergence-The Musical

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2015, 10:43:47 AM »

He did't specify that the beliefs had to be yours and Owlswing's.

Paganism covers a multitude of beliefs. Many of them are clearly not true. I'd be pretty confident that none of the gods actually exist, for example.

Me too!

Like religion, paganism is belief in the truth of what is nothing more than human romancing.
What's more dangerous though, paganism or the simpering, sentimental self congratulation and self righteousness of secular humanism?

Do me a favour, if you cannot post a sensible argument piss off with the -isms!
This post shows you wouldn't know a sensible argument if it slapped you on your face.
wwaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggghhhhhh.......I FEAST on Sh*te New Atheist argument.

Emergence-The Musical

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Re: Pagan beliefs are "in error". In what way in error and who says so?
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2015, 10:46:31 AM »

There's a belief that probably isn't true. The concept that some forms of life are "higher" than others is highly questionable.
Wot?   They all got A Levels now Jeremy?
wwaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggghhhhhh.......I FEAST on Sh*te New Atheist argument.