Heaven

[Shaker]

To be honest, in those situations you hear every excuse going.

Yup, Shakes, I've heard some wonderful ones from medics.

We've only your word for that, and given your record if you said it was raining I'd go outside to check. I was referring to the parade of excuses we get from believers in a deity supposed to be omnipotent (though not to you - you've implied that very clearly) whose alleged powers suddenly desert it whenever it's actually supposed to do stuff.

[Shaker]

I'm thinking of starting the stopwatch on my phone to see how long Hopeless (who has conveniently disappeared again) will duck, dive, dodge, evade and avoid the fact that yet again he's made an assertion he can't back up ... only I don't think the stopwatch will go up that high.

[OH MY WORLD!]

"...if you said it was raining I'd go outside and check."  No you wouldn't Shaker, I doubt you could find ten people that would bother rolling your sofa out the door. And I betcha your doors aren't wide enough for both you and your arrogance.

[Shaker]

 Isn't there a harmless wild animal you should be out killing somewhere, Moodie?

[ippy]

"...if you said it was raining I'd go outside and check."  No you wouldn't Shaker, I doubt you could find ten people that would bother rolling your sofa out the door. And I betcha your doors aren't wide enough for both you and your arrogance.

You have to be seen as evenhanded about these things Woody, sorry Shaker, if Hope says it's raining outside he will be right for most of the time, I think you've forgotten Hope lives in wales, the Welsh don't ask if it's raining there, they only ask is it dry today?

It's the mountains it sends all of that moisture laden air gathered on it's path over the North Atlantic on it's way upwards into the cold where it precipitates it's self into that almost continuous band of rain dropping on to this western part of our British isles called Wales.

Living in the South East we have to thank our fellow UK, Welsh division for suffering that rain and at the same time handing us the driest part of the country with the fewest dark, rain sodden days.

I wouldn't want to be seen as making a meal out of the fact that this part of the UK on average has the driest weather it's possible to have if you live here in the UK but I did think it might be relevant to mention how dry it is here for most of the time, that is that it's so dry compared to Wales.

By the way did you know we have the same amount of average rainfall as Jerusalem Jordan here in Essex?

ippy
       

[Free Willy]

"...if you said it was raining I'd go outside and check."  No you wouldn't Shaker, I doubt you could find ten people that would bother rolling your sofa out the door. And I betcha your doors aren't wide enough for both you and your arrogance.

You have to be seen as evenhanded about these things Woody, sorry Shaker, if Hope says it's raining outside he will be right for most of the time, I think you've forgotten Hope lives in wales, the Welsh don't ask if it's raining there, they only ask is it dry today?

It's the mountains it sends all of that moisture laden air gathered on it's path over the North Atlantic on it's way upwards into the cold where it precipitates it's self into that almost continuous band of rain dropping on to this western part of our British isles called Wales.

Living in the South East we have to thank our fellow UK, Welsh division for suffering that rain and at the same time handing us the driest part of the country with the fewest dark, rain sodden days.

I wouldn't want to be seen as making a meal out of the fact that this part of the UK on average has the driest weather it's possible to have if you live here in the UK but I did think it might be relevant to mention how dry it is here for most of the time, that is that it's so dry compared to Wales.

By the way did you know we have the same amount of average rainfall as Jerusalem Jordan here in Essex?

ippy
       

Why wasn't Jesus born in Essex?..........They couldn't find Three wisemen or a virgin.

[ippy]

"...if you said it was raining I'd go outside and check."  No you wouldn't Shaker, I doubt you could find ten people that would bother rolling your sofa out the door. And I betcha your doors aren't wide enough for both you and your arrogance.

You have to be seen as evenhanded about these things Woody, sorry Shaker, if Hope says it's raining outside he will be right for most of the time, I think you've forgotten Hope lives in wales, the Welsh don't ask if it's raining there, they only ask is it dry today?

It's the mountains it sends all of that moisture laden air gathered on it's path over the North Atlantic on it's way upwards into the cold where it precipitates it's self into that almost continuous band of rain dropping on to this western part of our British isles called Wales.

Living in the South East we have to thank our fellow UK, Welsh division for suffering that rain and at the same time handing us the driest part of the country with the fewest dark, rain sodden days.

I wouldn't want to be seen as making a meal out of the fact that this part of the UK on average has the driest weather it's possible to have if you live here in the UK but I did think it might be relevant to mention how dry it is here for most of the time, that is that it's so dry compared to Wales.

By the way did you know we have the same amount of average rainfall as Jerusalem Jordan here in Essex?

ippy
       

Why wasn't Jesus born in Essex?..........They couldn't find Three wisemen or a virgin.

Vlad you've written another post in plain English? Everything OK?

ippy

[Free Willy]

"...if you said it was raining I'd go outside and check."  No you wouldn't Shaker, I doubt you could find ten people that would bother rolling your sofa out the door. And I betcha your doors aren't wide enough for both you and your arrogance.

You have to be seen as evenhanded about these things Woody, sorry Shaker, if Hope says it's raining outside he will be right for most of the time, I think you've forgotten Hope lives in wales, the Welsh don't ask if it's raining there, they only ask is it dry today?

It's the mountains it sends all of that moisture laden air gathered on it's path over the North Atlantic on it's way upwards into the cold where it precipitates it's self into that almost continuous band of rain dropping on to this western part of our British isles called Wales.

Living in the South East we have to thank our fellow UK, Welsh division for suffering that rain and at the same time handing us the driest part of the country with the fewest dark, rain sodden days.

I wouldn't want to be seen as making a meal out of the fact that this part of the UK on average has the driest weather it's possible to have if you live here in the UK but I did think it might be relevant to mention how dry it is here for most of the time, that is that it's so dry compared to Wales.

By the way did you know we have the same amount of average rainfall as Jerusalem Jordan here in Essex?

ippy
       

Why wasn't Jesus born in Essex?..........They couldn't find Three wisemen or a virgin.

Vlad you've written another post in plain English? Everything OK?

ippy

No....Some bloke from Essex keeps posting Secular Humanism.

[ippy]

"...if you said it was raining I'd go outside and check."  No you wouldn't Shaker, I doubt you could find ten people that would bother rolling your sofa out the door. And I betcha your doors aren't wide enough for both you and your arrogance.

You have to be seen as evenhanded about these things Woody, sorry Shaker, if Hope says it's raining outside he will be right for most of the time, I think you've forgotten Hope lives in wales, the Welsh don't ask if it's raining there, they only ask is it dry today?

It's the mountains it sends all of that moisture laden air gathered on it's path over the North Atlantic on it's way upwards into the cold where it precipitates it's self into that almost continuous band of rain dropping on to this western part of our British isles called Wales.

Living in the South East we have to thank our fellow UK, Welsh division for suffering that rain and at the same time handing us the driest part of the country with the fewest dark, rain sodden days.

I wouldn't want to be seen as making a meal out of the fact that this part of the UK on average has the driest weather it's possible to have if you live here in the UK but I did think it might be relevant to mention how dry it is here for most of the time, that is that it's so dry compared to Wales.

By the way did you know we have the same amount of average rainfall as Jerusalem Jordan here in Essex?

ippy
       

Why wasn't Jesus born in Essex?..........They couldn't find Three wisemen or a virgin.

Vlad you've written another post in plain English? Everything OK?

ippy

No....Some bloke from Essex keeps posting Secular Humanism.

I knew there had to be some reason, does it hurt?

ippy

[Outrider]

Notwithstanding the ongoing explanation for how 'free will' might conceivably be a thing - how would anyone make an informed choice on the patchy, unreliable information provided?

I suppose it depends on whether one is a physical, scientific evidence-only sort of person, or whether one sees reality as being broader than these, which I believe more people do globally than don't.

Not scientific evidence only, just evidence only. Claims, unsubstantiated by logic, a verifiable methodology or successful outcomes, are just unsubstantiated claims.

O.

[Free Willy]

"...if you said it was raining I'd go outside and check."  No you wouldn't Shaker, I doubt you could find ten people that would bother rolling your sofa out the door. And I betcha your doors aren't wide enough for both you and your arrogance.

You have to be seen as evenhanded about these things Woody, sorry Shaker, if Hope says it's raining outside he will be right for most of the time, I think you've forgotten Hope lives in wales, the Welsh don't ask if it's raining there, they only ask is it dry today?

It's the mountains it sends all of that moisture laden air gathered on it's path over the North Atlantic on it's way upwards into the cold where it precipitates it's self into that almost continuous band of rain dropping on to this western part of our British isles called Wales.

Living in the South East we have to thank our fellow UK, Welsh division for suffering that rain and at the same time handing us the driest part of the country with the fewest dark, rain sodden days.

I wouldn't want to be seen as making a meal out of the fact that this part of the UK on average has the driest weather it's possible to have if you live here in the UK but I did think it might be relevant to mention how dry it is here for most of the time, that is that it's so dry compared to Wales.

By the way did you know we have the same amount of average rainfall as Jerusalem Jordan here in Essex?

ippy
       

Why wasn't Jesus born in Essex?..........They couldn't find Three wisemen or a virgin.

Vlad you've written another post in plain English? Everything OK?

ippy

No....Some bloke from Essex keeps posting Secular Humanism.

I knew there had to be some reason, does it hurt?

ippy

since Secular humanism is arseclenchingly sentimental.........Yes.

[floo]

I thought I would see if there was an mileage in bumping this topic up.

[jeremyp]

I thought I would see if there was an mileage in bumping this topic up.

Why?

[floo]

Why?

Why not?

[Sriram]

I thought I would see if there was an mileage in bumping this topic up.

Heaven and hell are typically Christian and Islamic concepts. Even in Judaism only some sects believe in heaven and hell.  It is relevant only if we believes in one life and a Judgement after that based on which people are sent to heaven or hell for eternity.

In Hinduism, there is no concept of heaven and hell. We believe in thousands of births and rebirths during which the spirit incarnates in many bodies including animals, then we are born as humans where again there are several births in different bodies and different circumstances. We thereby develop, learn and grow till we become saintly and selfless people.  After this is Mukti or Freedom whenwe are out of this cycle of birth and death.

There are  said to be spiritual worlds called Swarg and Narg (heaven and hell broadly) where we reside temporarily till we are reborn depending on our spiritual level.  During the cycle of rebirth and death, we do experience what is called swarg and narg on  earth depending on where we are born.

Neither of these states (happiness, pleasure and Sorrow, suffering) are permanent and the goal is to rise above both these illusionary and relative states of mind.

[jeremyp]

Why not?

Well normally threads die because nobody has got anything left they want to say on them. I thought you must have some new insight or something - otherwise, it'll just die again straight away.

[floo]

Well normally threads die because nobody has got anything left they want to say on them. I thought you must have some new insight or something - otherwise, it'll just die again straight away.

If it dies, I won't bother to resurrect it again.

[Brownie]

Sririam has said quite a bit, I assume he hasn't said it on this thread before (haven't checked).  Sometimes Hinduism makes a lot of sense to me so I'm always interested to read what he says.  Would be nice to think that, when I've shuffled off this mortal coil, I will have another bash at life starting from a better position.  Just a thought.  Probably anathema to most Christians but I have heard some Christians put forward the view that reincarnation is not totally incompatible with Christianity.  We believe in spiritual rebirth.

[trippymonkey]

B
Indeed I agree about Hinduism as it seems a more logical & kindly thing for a god to do rather than say 'right you pillocks, made a bollox,sorry- DOWN you go' ?!!??!?

[Sassy]

B
Indeed I agree about Hinduism as it seems a more logical & kindly thing for a god to do rather than say 'right you pillocks, made a bollox,sorry- DOWN you go' ?!!??!?

Doesn't that depend on the reality of the belief?

What evidence is there for reincarnation?

Jesus Christ is evidence of the OT God.., Yes, I know, we discuss the contents of the bible.
But given mans own evilness why would anything appear logical or kindly in being born over and over again to suffer?

[Sriram]

Doesn't that depend on the reality of the belief?

What evidence is there for reincarnation?

Jesus Christ is evidence of the OT God.., Yes, I know, we discuss the contents of the bible.
But given mans own evilness why would anything appear logical or kindly in being born over and over again to suffer?

There is more evidence for reincarnation than for the 6 day creation....or Adam & Eve....or eternal damnation. It also makes more sense, every one is ultimately equal and free, and is more in tune with evolution and slow development than the 'one life-judgement-damnation' theory.

Here is something on reincarnation in  Christianity.   It is just a site I came across...not sure about the quotes. You decide.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/origen3.html

Cheers.

Sriram

[floo]

Doesn't that depend on the reality of the belief?

What evidence is there for reincarnation?

Jesus Christ is evidence of the OT God.., Yes, I know, we discuss the contents of the bible.
But given mans own evilness why would anything appear logical or kindly in being born over and over again to suffer?

The tales about Jesus are no evidence of anything. Compared with the Biblical god humans are angels!

[trippymonkey]

TOTALLY AGREE Sriram & Floo !!
Jesus is proof of nothing at all !!!!
Sass
YOU try & argue your POV with a Muslim ?!!?!??

Nick

[Bubbles]

Doesn't that depend on the reality of the belief?

What evidence is there for reincarnation?

Jesus Christ is evidence of the OT God.., Yes, I know, we discuss the contents of the bible.
But given mans own evilness why would anything appear logical or kindly in being born over and over again to suffer?

Sassy

http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/380302/jewish/Gate-of-Reincarnations-Introduction.htm

It's also features  in some writings in some parts of Judaism.
http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/380599/jewish/Judaism-and-Reincarnation.htm

Many Jews are surprised to learn, or may even wish to deny, that reincarnation…is an integral part of Jewish belief…

[Bubbles]

Do Jews believe in reincarnation?
8 ANSWERS
David Mescheloff
David Mescheloff, Ph.D. mathematics, Ph.D. Talmud, Orthodox community rabbi and organizer of ra...
Written Sep 2
As Ara Ogle wrote, some do and some don’t. Those who do also insist that it is an absolutely required and necessary fundamental Jewish belief. Those who don’t believe in it point to the complete absence of any such notion expressed explicitly anywhere in early Jewish literature (see more details in other answers to this question).

Some don’t take a hard and fast position on this one, and believe that reincarnation is a possibility and may happen with some, even if it doesn’t occur generally.

After all that has been said … if what you’re asking about is an ultimate “reincarnation” of all righteous people, which we usually call “the resurrection of the dead”, then, indeed, the Mishnah (second century CE) describes this as a wfundamental Jewish belief, and Maimonides (12th century CE) included it in his list of fundamental Jewish beliefs. Yes, Orthodox Jews believe in that. We don’t know when it will take place, nor do we know the mechanism by which it will take place. Judaism is very much a concrete, here and now way of life, so we don’t spend too much time thinking about it, we just settle for confirming our belief in it regularly.


https://www.quora.com/Do-Jews-believe-in-reincarnation