Author Topic: Terror attacks in Paris.  (Read 12249 times)

Sriram

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2015, 02:46:53 PM »

Not to detract from the sorrow surrounding the deaths in the Paris attacks....but this is a tragedy also to be considered.

http://us.cnn.com/2015/11/16/middleeast/beirut-explosions/index.html

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As buildings lit up in the colors of the French flag, and the 129 people killed in Paris on Friday filled headlines, many people in Beirut felt the West -- and its news media -- had forsaken them.

A day before the French attacks, two suicide bombers had killed 43 people and wounded 239 more in the Lebanese capital in an ISIS-propagated murder.

The explosions detonated within 150 meters (490 feet) and five minutes of each other in the Bourj al-Barajneh district in southern Beirut on Thursday, Lebanon's state-run National News Agency said.

But on Friday, Western cameras turned away, focusing intently on France.

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Outrider

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2015, 02:50:15 PM »
Not to detract from the sorrow surrounding the deaths in the Paris attacks....but this is a tragedy also to be considered.

http://us.cnn.com/2015/11/16/middleeast/beirut-explosions/index.html

**************

As buildings lit up in the colors of the French flag, and the 129 people killed in Paris on Friday filled headlines, many people in Beirut felt the West -- and its news media -- had forsaken them.

A day before the French attacks, two suicide bombers had killed 43 people and wounded 239 more in the Lebanese capital in an ISIS-propagated murder.

The explosions detonated within 150 meters (490 feet) and five minutes of each other in the Bourj al-Barajneh district in southern Beirut on Thursday, Lebanon's state-run National News Agency said.

But on Friday, Western cameras turned away, focusing intently on France.

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Understandable, perhaps, but counter-productive. It feeds into the right-wing media's 'us and them' depiction of this as a clash between Islamic world and the West rather, but that just entrenches opinions on both sides.

O.
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2015, 02:54:45 PM »
Understandable, perhaps, but counter-productive. It feeds into the right-wing media's 'us and them' depiction of this as a clash between Islamic world and the West rather, but that just entrenches opinions on both sides.

O.

I rather think it is not a matter of right or left politics.   People seem united in this matter.  And it is not seen as Islam v the West; it is clearly being expressed as Isis v the West.  What evidence have you to suggest it is being portrayed as  Islam v the West?
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Outrider

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2015, 03:02:10 PM »
I rather think it is not a matter of right or left politics.   People seem united in this matter.  And it is not seen as Islam v the West; it is clearly being expressed as Isis v the West.  What evidence have you to suggest it is being portrayed as  Islam v the West?

All of the right wing media's focus on the Islamic attack on a secular western nation versus it's almost complete ignorance of an Islamic attack on a broadly Islamic nation.

It is a matter of right or left politics - right wing outlets tend towards nationalistic jingoism, whereas left-wing outlets tend towards class-based jingoism (though I find the left-wing are less overt about it, but that's possibly personal preference).

O.
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2015, 03:07:09 PM »
All of the right wing media's focus on the Islamic attack on a secular western nation versus it's almost complete ignorance of an Islamic attack on a broadly Islamic nation.

It is a matter of right or left politics - right wing outlets tend towards nationalistic jingoism, whereas left-wing outlets tend towards class-based jingoism (though I find the left-wing are less overt about it, but that's possibly personal preference).

O.

I follow the news quite avidly, and the coverage of all aspects of this dreadful situation are pretty well-rounded, and non-discriminating.  Unless you can quote me evidence to the contrary.
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Outrider

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2015, 03:10:46 PM »
I follow the news quite avidly, and the coverage of all aspects of this dreadful situation are pretty well-rounded, and non-discriminating.  Unless you can quote me evidence to the contrary.

I follow the news as best I can, and both stories are there if you want to go find them. If you don't want to go find them, if you wait to have your news fed to you, you're getting one of these stories and not the other.

O.
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2015, 03:13:12 PM »
I follow the news as best I can, and both stories are there if you want to go find them. If you don't want to go find them, if you wait to have your news fed to you, you're getting one of these stories and not the other.

O.

Well, give me some evidence of what you say by quoting some news coverage.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2015, 03:15:41 PM »
Just to note I had posted about the tragedy in Beirut in message 21. And there had been further deaths in Baghdad previously. The lack of coverage realise might be because of the overall thought that these tragedies happen constantly there, though interestingly at one stage yesterday the most read story on the BBC was the university massacre in Kenya that happened in April as it got shared bypeoplegoing 'what about this, why does no one pay attention' and not noticing the date.


There's a certain amount of focus on Paris by people who have been there frequently, lived there, have friends there. I went to a number of concerts at the Bataclan in the 90s so it has a resonance. I appreciate that there is a valid point to be made about every death in these actions being a tragedy but there is a sort of caring oneupmanship that becomes a little distasteful, and I am aware of a couple of instances where people searched back through other people's comments on social media to check about whether they had been 'sufficiently' outpouring their grief in other tragedies.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 03:35:32 PM by Nearly Sane »

Outrider

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2015, 03:19:03 PM »
Well, give me some evidence of what you say by quoting some news coverage.
Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph, The Guardian, BBC News. All right wing or centrist outlets, all devoted masses of coverage to Paris, but minimal observances of the Beirut incident. All of them have dropped any news of the Sinai plane bombing - perhaps lack of any new information, perhaps lack of enough Western victims...

O.
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2015, 03:24:42 PM »
Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph, The Guardian, BBC News. All right wing or centrist outlets, all devoted masses of coverage to Paris, but minimal observances of the Beirut incident. All of them have dropped any news of the Sinai plane bombing - perhaps lack of any new information, perhaps lack of enough Western victims...

O.
I think you would expect anyone to concentrate on the horror of something close to home:  that doesn't mean other horrors are ignored.  There is foulness going on all over the world  -  all over Africa, the Middle East, etc.  Apart from anything else, there isn't time or space to give it all coverage daily.
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Outrider

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2015, 03:27:32 PM »
I think you would expect anyone to concentrate on the horror of something close to home:  that doesn't mean other horrors are ignored.  There is foulness going on all over the world  -  all over Africa, the Middle East, etc.  Apart from anything else, there isn't time or space to give it all coverage daily.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Responsible journalists though, you'd think, would be reporting everything equally - it's an horrific event regardless of how far away it is, we're a global community these days, it's not like these things have no impact.

I can understand Beirut being relegated for the newer atrocity of Paris, but I can't understand the relative lack of coverage for it before Paris happened - that sense that it's important because it's happening to people like us reinforces the differences rather than emphasising the shared humanity.

We aren't going to fix this by highlighting differences, and although journalists might well claim that they aren't there to fix the problem but to report on them, their partial coverage is lending itself to the problem not the solution.

O.
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2015, 03:32:06 PM »
Perhaps, perhaps not. Responsible journalists though, you'd think, would be reporting everything equally - it's an horrific event regardless of how far away it is, we're a global community these days, it's not like these things have no impact.

I can understand Beirut being relegated for the newer atrocity of Paris, but I can't understand the relative lack of coverage for it before Paris happened - that sense that it's important because it's happening to people like us reinforces the differences rather than emphasising the shared humanity.

We aren't going to fix this by highlighting differences, and although journalists might well claim that they aren't there to fix the problem but to report on them, their partial coverage is lending itself to the problem not the solution.

O.

So, when 132 people have been murdered, a couple of hundred injured, some British, you expect editors to say, in the immediacy of it, " we must make sure to cover Beirut equally."  That has been covered, not ignored, and no doubt will be again.
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Outrider

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2015, 03:33:59 PM »
So, when 132 people have been murdered, a couple of hundred injured, some British, you expect editors to say, in the immediacy of it, " we must make sure to cover Beirut equally."  That has been covered, not ignored, and no doubt will be again.

No, I expect a hundred people blown up in a co-ordinated terrorist attack to merit top billing, whether it happens in Paris or Beirut. Friday's papers had the Beirut story as third or fourth option, at best, but Paris was a multiple-page spread.

If we don't show the Arab world that we value them, we just provide ammunition for the Islamists.

O.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2015, 03:34:30 PM »
Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph, The Guardian, BBC News. All right wing or centrist outlets, all devoted masses of coverage to Paris, but minimal observances of the Beirut incident. All of them have dropped any news of the Sinai plane bombing - perhaps lack of any new information, perhaps lack of enough Western victims...

O.
I would agree that there was very little coverage of the Beirut bombing, but not so the Sinai plane bombing. I think there was extensive coverage of that - both of the parochial nature (Brits stranded abroad) but also of the crash first, then the recognition that it was a likely terrorist attack.

I'd agree that the level of coverage was less than over the weekend, but I'm not sure how you 'measure' levels of coverage to ensure it is commensurate with the significance of the incident. I think (and it is always likely to be the case) that some events strike a chord with the public, and therefore within the media, in a manner that others don't quite. And some end up 'buried' due to other events. So for example there was quite a serious train crash in France on Saturday, which would have got much more publicity than it actually did if it hadn't happened the day after the Paris attacks.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2015, 03:39:29 PM »
No, I expect a hundred people blown up in a co-ordinated terrorist attack to merit top billing, whether it happens in Paris or Beirut. Friday's papers had the Beirut story as third or fourth option, at best, but Paris was a multiple-page spread.

If we don't show the Arab world that we value them, we just provide ammunition for the Islamists.


It is simple human nature to cover your personal losses as paramount,  not some way of trying to minimise the ordeals of others. Goodness knows, the situation in the Middle East gets huge coverage over the media, all but daily.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2015, 03:40:50 PM »
In addition to the news coverage, there is also the political coverage, we didn't have a minutes silence for those killed at Garissa in April and no Kenyan flags projected onto Tower Bridge. That the tragedies in Paris gets the coverage that it does is not surprising, that those killed in Garissa get less on the news outlets is also not surprising but there is an easy narrative here that white lives matter more.

Outrider

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2015, 03:41:25 PM »
I would agree that there was very little coverage of the Beirut bombing, but not so the Sinai plane bombing. I think there was extensive coverage of that - both of the parochial nature (Brits stranded abroad) but also of the crash first, then the recognition that it was a likely terrorist attack.

I'd agree that the level of coverage was less than over the weekend, but I'm not sure how you 'measure' levels of coverage to ensure it is commensurate with the significance of the incident. I think (and it is always likely to be the case) that some events strike a chord with the public, and therefore within the media, in a manner that others don't quite. And some end up 'buried' due to other events. So for example there was quite a serious train crash in France on Saturday, which would have got much more publicity than it actually did if it hadn't happened the day after the Paris attacks.

The train was thought at the time to be manned by a few test engineers, and whilst that's an horrendous event it's of a different level to the Paris attacks. I absolutely think the Paris attacks merited multiple pages, but I think the Beirut attacks did when they happened and before Paris.

The Russian plane bombing was widely reported, but I wonder if we'll hear of it again - that might be lack of any new information, as I said, but it might equally be that Russia is less like us than Paris, and so not as emotive.

O.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2015, 03:45:33 PM »
I think the Sinai tragedy is a bit different. It's now been subsumed into a narrative that seems to accept it as being part of some co-ordinated campaign by the murdering thugs and the nature of the initial lack of clarity meant that it wasn't something where the whole uses them narrative could be used, leaving aside a certain ambivalence about the shooting down of a plane given earlier events in the Ukraine.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2015, 03:46:58 PM »
In addition to the news coverage, there is also the political coverage, we didn't have a minutes silence for those killed at Garissa in April and no Kenyan flags projected onto Tower Bridge. That the tragedies in Paris gets the coverage that it does is not surprising, that those killed in Garissa get less on the news outlets is also not surprising but there is an easy narrative here that white lives matter more.
That's true - there there was massive coverage over the Westgate shopping mall attacks back in 2013. Quite why one got lots of coverage and the other much less is difficult to understand, although it has to be noted that there were British casualties in the shopping mall attacks.

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2015, 03:48:35 PM »
I am no fan of the media. I think that I am rather shock proof against terrorist attacks in the middle east and Africa. It's as though it has become a very routine thing to happen in those parts of the world. I don't think I am the only one to become shock proof and the media knows this and will drop a horrible event, say in Pakistan, for a more shocking and let's face it, a more money generating event closer to home. That being said, I do disagree with the notion that the BBC is right wing.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2015, 03:48:49 PM »
The train was thought at the time to be manned by a few test engineers, and whilst that's an horrendous event it's of a different level to the Paris attacks. I absolutely think the Paris attacks merited multiple pages, but I think the Beirut attacks did when they happened and before Paris.

The Russian plane bombing was widely reported, but I wonder if we'll hear of it again - that might be lack of any new information, as I said, but it might equally be that Russia is less like us than Paris, and so not as emotive.

O.

The Russian plane crash was less immediate for us, and the take in the media was slanted towards the political consequences.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2015, 03:49:22 PM »
The train was thought at the time to be manned by a few test engineers, and whilst that's an horrendous event it's of a different level to the Paris attacks. I absolutely think the Paris attacks merited multiple pages, but I think the Beirut attacks did when they happened and before Paris.
Of course - but on another day it would have received far more coverage.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2015, 03:51:32 PM »
Of course - but on another day it would have received far more coverage.
Except they didn't when they happened before Paris

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2015, 04:13:54 PM »

I think if you questioned the average person standing there in the minute silence, and asked them why they weren't bothering more about Beirut, you'd get short shrift.  Not because people don't care, that's a risible suggestion, but it's only natural that you care immediately about your own loss and the very personal horror of it.
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It is my commandment that you love one another."

Outrider

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Re: Terror attacks in Paris.
« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2015, 04:16:36 PM »
I think if you questioned the average person standing there in the minute silence, and asked them why they weren't bothering more about Beirut, you'd get short shrift.  Not because people don't care, that's a risible suggestion, but it's only natural that you care immediately about your own loss and the very personal horror of it.

Yes, you're absolutely right. And that's part of the problem, that division of humanity into people who are progressively less and less 'like me' as though that made them less worthy of attention, or empathy, or sympathy.

I know you probably don't mean it like that, I know they probably don't mean it like that, but affinity for those like is, by definition, segregation from those we deem unlike us.

It's in that segregation that people like Isis find their recruits, and it's in displays of that segregation that they find their propoganda.

O.
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