Author Topic: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth  (Read 3603 times)

ad_orientem

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2015, 02:11:34 PM »
That sentence makes me uneasy, if, if the perpetrators of these atrocities are following a religion ( Islam ) then they have perverted it beyond all comprehension.

All they need do is look to the founder of their relugion, Gonners. It's in the very DNA of Islam. Islam is the problem. In another act f complete madness we're letting hundreds of thousands of adherents of that religion into Europe.

We already have hundreds of thousands of adherents to a violent religion in Europe - Christians. That we've largely tamed them shows that it's possible - we just need to seep that secular, rational, equitable, civilised cutlure out into their world. Let's stop building up their martyr complex by sending bombs and start sending wireless routers and DVDs, food parcels and books, ideas and concepts.

O.

Where did Christ command us to kill anyone?
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Nearly Sane

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2015, 02:14:05 PM »
If he didn't change a tittle of the law then, the thou shalt not suffer a witch to live is one of JC's as is are the various slaughters in the OT carried out in the name of his co-member of the divine triumvirate.

Outrider

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2015, 02:15:01 PM »
Where did Christ command us to kill anyone?

I've no idea, why don't you ask the hundreds of thousands of Christians throughout history who have seen fit to kill people for their religion?

Don't tell me, they're the wrong kind of Christians...

O.
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Gonnagle

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2015, 02:16:59 PM »
Dear ad,

Quote
All they need do is look to the founder of their relugion, Gonners. It's in the very DNA of Islam. Islam is the problem. In another act f complete madness we're letting hundreds of thousands of adherents of that religion into Europe.

This is not what I know about Islam ( which is very little ) but I do remember something about if you take a life you are killing God, something like that!! and from reading Armstrong Islam in the beginning was a very tolerant religion, anyway I don't think the problem is just Islam.

But then Outrider could be right, just my version :( :(

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Alan Burns

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2015, 02:19:42 PM »


Quote
We can’t imagine what it is like to follow a religion that demands the kidnapping and torture of children and the slaughter of innocents.

That sentence makes me uneasy, if, if the perpetrators of these atrocities are following a religion ( Islam ) then they have perverted it beyond all comprehension.

There are many devout, peace loving Muslims, but what makes me feel uneasy is that the extremists can vindicate some of their actions by looking at the founder of their religion who used violence to spread the faith, and claimed that victory in battle was a sign to justify the cause.

Jesus on the other hand submitted to violence in order to offer salvation to all mankind.
The truth will set you free

Nearly Sane

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2015, 02:23:33 PM »
That would be Jesus submitting to the violence to pacify the other part of the divine triumvirate who had thought it necessary for someone disobeying them, and then not being satisfied with killing almost the entirety of the Human race and instructing people to slaughter children and even animals and indicating that raping prisoners of war was ok?

Shaker

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2015, 02:25:43 PM »
Jesus on the other hand submitted to violence in order to offer salvation to all mankind.
... when he wasn't fashioning his own weapons with which to visit violence upon others, anyway.
Confucius say: only when mosquito land on testicles does man learn to solve problem without violence.

Gonnagle

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2015, 02:30:55 PM »
Dear Alan,

Quote
There are many devout, peace loving Muslims, but what makes me feel uneasy is that the extremists can vindicate some of their actions by looking at the founder of their religion who used violence to spread the faith, and claimed that victory in battle was a sign to justify the cause.

Jesus on the other hand submitted to violence in order to offer salvation to all mankind.

Correction, there are millions of devout peace loving Muslims.

Sorry Alan but I will never debate Mohammed versus Jesus.

A Holy war, no such thing >:( >:(

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Outrider

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2015, 02:48:47 PM »
That sentence makes me uneasy, if, if the perpetrators of these atrocities are following a religion ( Islam ) then they have perverted it beyond all comprehension.


There are many devout, peace loving Muslims, but what makes me feel uneasy is that the extremists can vindicate some of their actions by looking at the founder of their religion who used violence to spread the faith, and claimed that victory in battle was a sign to justify the cause.

Jesus on the other hand submitted to violence in order to offer salvation to all mankind.

And your God in the Old Testament sent plagues, slew the firstborn of an entire nation, rained fire and brimstone on entire cities... Islam has its peacemakers, Christianity has it's psychopaths. Religions can be all things to all men, that's why they're such a problem.

O.
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2015, 03:16:23 PM »
And your God in the Old Testament sent plagues, slew the firstborn of an entire nation, rained fire and brimstone on entire cities... Islam has its peacemakers, Christianity has it's psychopaths. Religions can be all things to all men, that's why they're such a problem.

O...

Quoting the OT is no argument, since is wrong, and thus irrelevant.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 03:25:32 PM by BashfulAnthony »
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It is my commandment that you love one another."

Alan Burns

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2015, 03:18:11 PM »

A Holy war, no such thing >:( >:(

As a Christian I agree there should be no such thing as a holy war.

But the Koran indicates that to die in a holy war is a guaranteed way to get to heaven, which is why the extremists find it so easy to recruit suicide bombers.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2015, 03:18:56 PM »
And your God in the Old Testament sent plagues, slew the firstborn of an entire nation, rained fire and brimstone on entire cities... Islam has its peacemakers, Christianity has it's psychopaths. Religions can be all things to all men, that's why they're such a problem.

O.
Quoting the OT is no argument, since is wrong, and thus irrelevant.
That is your personal view and not the view of Ad_o who was being replied to here, so your reply is what is irrelevant.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 03:24:52 PM by Nearly Sane »

BashfulAnthony

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2015, 03:19:56 PM »
As a Christian I agree there should be no such thing as a holy war.

But the Koran indicates that to die in a holy war is a guaranteed way to get to heaven, which is why the extremists find it so easy to recruit suicide bombers.

And of course, if they all really believed that, they would all blow themselves up!  The evil men behind all this simply use that as a way of manipulating others to do their will.
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Outrider

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2015, 03:21:04 PM »
Quoting the OT is no argument, since is wrong, and thus irrelevant.

That would be the Old Testament that your precious Jesus of the New Testament reinforced, right? Jesus is wrong on that bit, but right on everything else...

O.
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Outrider

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2015, 03:21:56 PM »
And of course, if they all really believed that, they would all blow themselves up!  The evil men behind all this simply use that as a way of manipulating others to do their will.

Why? (Some) Christians believe innocent babies go straight to heaven but they don't instantly kill them to guarantee that will happen.

O.
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2015, 03:28:27 PM »
That would be the Old Testament that your precious Jesus of the New Testament reinforced, right? Jesus is wrong on that bit, but right on everything else...

O.

Quite wrong, as you would know if you knew the NT.  I have pointed this out so often:  Jesus came with a new message of love and forgiveness:  "new wine for old," as He said.    So He was right on that, and everything else. 
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Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Outrider

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2015, 03:32:07 PM »
Quite wrong, as you would know if you knew the NT.  I have pointed this out so often:  Jesus came with a new message of love and forgiveness:  "new wine for old," as He said.    So He was right on that, and everything else.

"For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished.  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" - Matthew 5:18-19

I think, from this, Jesus might have been a fan of the original vintage...

O.
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BeRational

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2015, 03:33:40 PM »
"For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished.  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" - Matthew 5:18-19

I think, from this, Jesus might have been a fan of the original vintage...

O.

Is there something in Matthew about coming with a sword to set a man against his father, daughter against mother etc.
I see gullible people, everywhere!

ippy

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2015, 03:34:49 PM »
I just came across this interesting and thought provoking article showing a Christian view of the Paris attacks:

The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth

Why are the so-called Christian countries so spineless in the face of the Muslim terror?

Because for over fifty years we have gradually come to value goodness without truth.

What I mean by this is that we have become complacent about our Christian faith. We have drifted into either lax unbelief, hedonistic agnosticism and finally outright atheism.

In abandoning our religion we have abandoned truth, believing that it is possible–and even preferable–to be good without religion. We have concluded that the weakest and most shallow forms of goodness are the only kind there are, and have taken from the Christian religion the easiest, laziest and most sloppy aspects and rejected all the rest.

We have smashed and grabbed the Christian store and taken all the shiniest and most worthless trinkets thinking they were all there was on offer, and we have re-made our own atheistic humanistic religion out of the pickings.

Western Christian liberals have therefore promoted something which they think they have salvaged from Christianity, but it is as much like real Christianity as a paste diamond is to the real gemstone.

Their religion has become one of bland tolerance. They mistake political correctness for charity, shallow optimism for hope and an ideology for faith.

As a result they have opened their borders to every kind of horror, refusing to the end to believe that such horrors from hell really do exist. They have opened their own borders to Islamic extremists who have stated openly that they wish to destroy everything Christian and take over their country and turn it into an Islamic state.

Blind as the fundamentalists they deplore, the liberals’ ideology is a counterfeit form of faith which forbids them to castigate, exclude or expel anyone and refuses to acknowledge that they have such a thing as an enemy.

Their shallow optimism is their substitute for hope and this blinds them to the fact that their birth rate is below the replacement level, that their culture is doomed and their country about to collapse.

Their tolerant political correctness is their artificial form of charity which is spineless and gutless and has nothing to offer except more bland tolerance and acceptance of everything and everyone. These people would probably tolerate and grant “rights” to a serial killer who entered their home.

The Paris attacks should be a wake up call.

True goodness can never be separated from Truth, and Christian truth is never soft, weak or spineless.

Christian goodness is always combined with uncompromising Truth. It is always courageous, true and bold. It answers violence with defiant love. It understands that a there is such a thing as evil, and allows that when all other attempts at peace fail, then irrational rage and violence must be met with a reply of rational, planned and measured justice.

Like the majority of your posts Alan, go and see somebody, take a lot of counselling, it'll need be held over a number of years, even then? Your post is made up of a whole lot of potty rambling.

No doubt you're one of those weirdos that think, at least the Paris dead are in a far better place now! Yuk.

It's not like this belief of yours is based on even the slightest bit of credible evidence that would be worthy of debate.

ippy 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 06:36:37 PM by ippy »

BashfulAnthony

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2015, 03:35:47 PM »
"For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished.  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" - Matthew 5:18-19

I think, from this, Jesus might have been a fan of the original vintage...

O.

I refer you to my comment about actually knowing the NT, rather than simply googling bits to suit you.  Your quote is from Matthew, a strongly Jewish, orthodox, writer, whose aim was to present to Jews a version of Jesus that would fit their needs:  it is called midrash.
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Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Outrider

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2015, 03:36:13 PM »
Is there something in Matthew about coming with a sword to set a man against his father, daughter against mother etc.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34

O.
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BeRational

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2015, 03:37:40 PM »
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34

O.

That's the very fellow.

Not a very nice sentiment is it?

No doubt the Christians here can put the required 'spin' on it so that it says something nice.

Perhaps something about kittens and puppies I would think.
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Outrider

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2015, 03:38:32 PM »
I refer you to my comment about actually knowing the NT, rather than simply googling bits to suit you.  Your quote is from Matthew, a strongly Jewish, orthodox, writer, whose aim was to present to Jews a version of Jesus that would fit their needs:  it is called midrash.

So we can presume that because you don't like that bit it's been adjusted by the author to suit his or her own agenda - how, then, do you know which bits are genuinely Jesus? There isn't a Gospel according to Jesus, it's all at least (and that's incredibly optimistic) second hand, and more likely third or fourth, before the editing and the translation.

You have no idea which bits are actually Jesus, if any of them, you just know which bits you like and which bits you think you can ignore. Don't get me wrong, I prefer your version, but there's no more justification for it than any other.

O.
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2015, 03:42:38 PM »
That's the very fellow.

Not a very nice sentiment is it?

No doubt the Christians here can put the required 'spin' on it so that it says something nice.

Perhaps something about kittens and puppies I would think.

I think you and Outrider need to look at some Biblical commentary, and start by looking up midrash.
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

BashfulAnthony

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Re: The Paris Attacks: The Consequence of Goodness Without Truth
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2015, 03:45:44 PM »
So we can presume that because you don't like that bit it's been adjusted by the author to suit his or her own agenda - how, then, do you know which bits are genuinely Jesus? There isn't a Gospel according to Jesus, it's all at least (and that's incredibly optimistic) second hand, and more likely third or fourth, before the editing and the translation.

You have no idea which bits are actually Jesus, if any of them, you just know which bits you like and which bits you think you can ignore. Don't get me wrong, I prefer your version, but there's no more justification for it than any other.

O.

A great deal of scholarship has been given over to what you say.  I think before you merely label it all with your own, slanted, meaning, you should acquaint yourself with some objective analysis.
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."