Author Topic: Ken Livingstone  (Read 1820 times)

BashfulAnthony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7520
Re: Ken Livingstone
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2015, 09:55:22 PM »
You say that as though there's a difference, Bashers ;)

Now you mention it, there isn't!   
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

jakswan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11998
    • Preloved Ads
Re: Ken Livingstone
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2015, 07:34:03 AM »
You're right; but anyone who votes Tory after the Tax Credit in particular, has to be a real dyed-in-the-wool Tory, or politically inept.

We are talking about the British electorate, who seem to contain a lot of both categories.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

Ricky Spanish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3016
Re: Ken Livingstone
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2017, 08:07:58 AM »
Talking of Red Ken.

Any views on the teacup storm created over these comments?

“The SS set up training camps so that German Jews who were going to go there could be trained to cope with a very different sort of country.

When the Zionist movement asked the Nazi Government, would they stop Jewish Rabbis doing their sermons in Yiddish and make them do it in Hebrew, he agreed to that.

He also passed a law that said the Zionist flag and the Swastika were the only flags that could be flown in Germany and then they started selling Mauser pistols to the underground Jewish army.

So you had, right up until the start of the Second World War, real collaboration and when, in July 1937, many senior Nazis gathered at their Foreign Offices, saying we should stop sending German Jews to Palestine because it risks creating a Jewish state, a directive comes directly from Hitler saying, ‘no, continue with this policy.’

Everyone who studies history just knows this. It is true."

Just because he says it is true does that make it so?
UNDERSTAND - I MAKE OPINIONS. IF YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE ME QUESTION MY OPINION THEN I WILL CONSIDER THEM.

ad_orientem

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6086
  • Lex orandi lex credendi
Re: Ken Livingstone
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2017, 12:08:30 PM »
It's not true just because Ken said it but because that's what actually happened.
Rationalism leads to Protestantism leads to atheism.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24370

Owlswing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5603
Re: Ken Livingstone
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2017, 12:01:26 AM »

You say that as though there's a difference, Bashers ;)


Good to see you again - Shakes!

BB

)O(
If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some do what you must!

Robbie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2136
Re: Ken Livingstone
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2017, 03:27:18 AM »
Honestly, as someone who has always favoured Ken, I really do not know what to make of this. I'd love to think he is being misinterpreted but.....
True Wit is Nature to Advantage drest,
          What oft was Thought, but ne’er so well Exprest

Ricky Spanish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3016
Re: Ken Livingstone
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2017, 08:43:15 AM »
I see your ex-jewish comedian and raise you 5 Jewish Labour Party Members:

Quote
"The decision to continue the suspension (of) Ken is mistaken. It is an attempt to protect Israel from criticism, while simultaneously weakening the position of Jeremy Corbyn, a principled supporter of Palestinian rights.

"It is the verdict, not Ken Livingstone, that has brought the Labour Party into disrepute."

http://www.aol.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/jewish-labour-party-members-speak-up-for-livingstone/
UNDERSTAND - I MAKE OPINIONS. IF YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE ME QUESTION MY OPINION THEN I WILL CONSIDER THEM.

Ricky Spanish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3016
Re: Ken Livingstone
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2017, 09:01:38 AM »
Robinson.

This take on the whole debacle might interest you:

"Why so many are twisting Ken Livingstone’s words about Hitler and Zionism"

http://mondoweiss.net/2017/04/twisting-livingstones-zionism/
UNDERSTAND - I MAKE OPINIONS. IF YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE ME QUESTION MY OPINION THEN I WILL CONSIDER THEM.

Ricky Spanish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3016
Re: Ken Livingstone
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2017, 12:22:32 PM »
Actually Sane. Someone's taken the time to deconstruct Baddiels Gurniad article.

Have a read here: http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/04/08/why-david-baddiel-has-it-so-wrong-over-ken-livingstone-and-hitler/
UNDERSTAND - I MAKE OPINIONS. IF YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE ME QUESTION MY OPINION THEN I WILL CONSIDER THEM.

jakswan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11998
    • Preloved Ads
Re: Ken Livingstone
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2017, 10:09:15 AM »
Paraphrased Ken 'when Hitler got elected in 1932 he was supporting Zionism before he went mad'.

May or may not be factually true however its highly controversial statement to make, if your aim as a political party is to win over the electorate it is counter productive.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

Robbie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2136
Re: Ken Livingstone
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2017, 10:26:03 AM »
Thanks Ricky.  Your first link produced a blank page!  However I googled mondoweiss and found this:
http://mondoweiss.net/?s=ken+livingstone

The Vox one was fine and I have read the article.

Paraphrased Ken 'when Hitler got elected in 1932 he was supporting Zionism before he went mad'.

May or may not be factually true however its highly controversial statement to make, if your aim as a political party is to win over the electorate it is counter productive.
 
Quite right Jakswan.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 10:57:27 AM by Robinson »
True Wit is Nature to Advantage drest,
          What oft was Thought, but ne’er so well Exprest

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24370
Re: Ken Livingstone
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2017, 10:32:40 AM »
Thanks Ricky.  Your first link produced a blank page!
The Vox one was fine and I have read the article.
 
Quite right Jakswan.

It's a specific attempt to provoke guilt by association and to play into the idea that all wars are caused by Jewish control of finance. Hitler used Zionists as opposed to supporting Zionism to get rid of Jewish people. He didn't suddenly go mad and this is where the Baddiel article is correct.

It's dog whistle politics for anti semitism

Rhiannon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3087
    • Women's Aid
Re: Ken Livingstone
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2017, 11:03:59 AM »
Yes, I think the 'before he went mad' line is the most pernicious.

It's been pointed out that Hitler's enthusiasm for a Jewish state wants when he realised that it wouldn't be some kind of reservation in  the Middle East controlled by the British.