Author Topic: The Highest Jew  (Read 43648 times)

trippymonkey

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #100 on: December 03, 2015, 10:10:47 AM »
But you don't actually KNOW this, do you ??

Have you ever read any other teachings ?

NicholasMarks

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #101 on: December 03, 2015, 10:18:40 AM »
But you don't actually KNOW this, do you ??

Have you ever read any other teachings ?

You wouldn't believe me if I said I did know this for a fact...but Jesus took it one step further and proved it to those who found righteousness struck a chord with them...you see, no righteous spirit, no righteous resurrection...not to the old broken vessel but to a new vessel just as Jesus teaches us. Its the eternal damnation bit if we don't comply which should worry us.

Owlswing

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #102 on: December 03, 2015, 10:19:21 AM »
We don't need to quote Jesus' instructions we have to live them. We than find that we are partaking in the highest science known to God. A science that with skill and understanding will deliver into our own hands the ability to perform what appeared 2000 years ago to be miracles. Jews, gentiles, Muslims, and all others who can join into that science will have one advantage that no other person will have and that is the power of resurrection which in this day and age will be like manna from Heaven for very many people.

NM

Please define, exactly and precisely, what the word "science" means in the post quoted.

I ask because, from the context, it does NOT mean what I mean when I use the word.


If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some do what you must!

ad_orientem

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #103 on: December 03, 2015, 10:24:02 AM »
Oh good! You're back. Been away sacrificing babies to Baal have you?
Rationalism leads to Protestantism leads to atheism.

Bubbles

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #104 on: December 03, 2015, 06:19:51 PM »
You cannot serve two masters. To continue to circumcise and follow the Law clearly shows that they still reject the Gospel and remain dead in their sins. They must be baptised into the Church. There is no salvation outside the Church.

Which two masters?

I thought Christians believed the God who gave the laws to the Jews  in the first place, was the same one who created Christianity?  ???

So which two masters?


" there is no salvation outside the church" is one of those controlling statements I find hard to accept.

My J W relatives believe there is no salvation outside the "Kingdom Hall."

It isn't the church that saves people is it?

I thought it was supposed to be Jesus.

 ???

See, I don't accept any of this.

Its all about getting you to give various religious institutions, authority over you.

The LDS are as bad.

I prefer not to give authority to any organised religion.

🌹

I prefer to work it out for myself.




« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 06:23:35 PM by Rose »

Bubbles

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #105 on: December 03, 2015, 06:35:12 PM »
You wouldn't believe me if I said I did know this for a fact...but Jesus took it one step further and proved it to those who found righteousness struck a chord with them...you see, no righteous spirit, no righteous resurrection...not to the old broken vessel but to a new vessel just as Jesus teaches us. Its the eternal damnation bit if we don't comply which should worry us.

Righteousness strikes a chord with many people Nicolas.

The problem is everyone has slightly different ideas on what that is.

I eat meat, some people would think that goes against being righteous.

The best we can do is share our ideas and argue our case.

In the OT they did that, and in the Talmud.

I feel closer to the Jewish idea of questioning, than I do to the Christian and Muslim one of surrendering

Quote

While the idea of a complete surrender to faith, a surrender to God, is harmonious with many Christian and Muslim faiths, it's much less comfortable for most Jews, who are traditionally taught to question in order to learn more deeply. Judaism tends to encourage individuals to explore their own personal relationship with God. For those people who are comfortable with the idea of surrender, God-wrestling is not an easy concept.


http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/taking-a-look-at-jewish-religious-beliefs.html



I think it is awful when Jews lose that.... I think life is about questioning 🌹

Christianity just doesn't feel it fits me, and I'm too old to convert to Judaism plus my family are into bacon sarnies.  ;)

But I can really appreciate aspects of Judaism  :)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 06:40:15 PM by Rose »

ad_orientem

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #106 on: December 03, 2015, 06:36:22 PM »
Which two masters?

I thought Christians believed the God who gave the laws to the Jews  in the first place, was the same one who created Christianity?  ???

So which two masters?


" there is no salvation outside the church" is one of those controlling statements I find hard to accept.

My J W relatives believe there is no salvation outside the "Kingdom Hall."

It isn't the church that saves people is it?

I thought it was supposed to be Jesus.

 ???

See, I don't accept any of this.

Its all about getting you to give various religious institutions, authority over you.

The LDS are as bad.

I prefer not to give authority to any organised religion.

🌹

I prefer to work it out for myself.

The old was only for a certain people for a certain time but that time has ended. The old covenant is dead, finished, nailed to the cross with our Lord Jesus Christ. We now have a new covenant. To continue to keep the old is to reject the new. The Church is the only ark of salvation. The Church is Christ's body apart from which no one can be saved. If we are not part of that body then we cannot be raised to newness of life.
Rationalism leads to Protestantism leads to atheism.

Hope

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #107 on: December 03, 2015, 06:46:50 PM »
I feel closer to the Jewish idea of questioning, than I do to the Christian and Muslim one of surrendering
There's an idea of surrendering in Christianity?  Do you have a chapter and verse for that claim, Rose?  I'd agree that Judaism includes a lot of questioning (perhaps too much) but then Chriostians are told to 'test the spirits', and to use our discernment about things - both of which involve a lot of questions.

Quote
I think it is awful when Jews lose that.... I think life is about questioning 🌹

Christianity just doesn't feel it fits me, and I'm too old to convert to Judaism plus my family are into bacon sarnies.  ;)

But I can really appreciate aspects of Judaism  :)
I think the problem I have with Judaism is two-fold; they were too keen to retain the Good News for themselves, and the more I read about the nature of 'Messiah' throughout the Old Testament, the more I see that the references refer to someone/some being remarkably like Jesus.
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Shaker

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #108 on: December 03, 2015, 06:48:24 PM »
Is there such a thing as too much questioning, then?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Hope

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #109 on: December 03, 2015, 07:11:01 PM »
" there is no salvation outside the church" is one of those controlling statements I find hard to accept.
Unlike the JWs for whom the 'Kingdom Hall' is a physical place, Christianity uses the same term for the people of God as for the building in which they will often meet. 

Amongst his final instructions to his disciples was the instruction 'to go out and make disciples'.  Making disciples involves several states, starting with introducing someone to Jesus (or the other way round if you'd prefer), leading them to a point where they feel able to commit their lives to Christ - the actual act of which I, as a Christian, can never be part of as it is between the individual and God - followed by the on-going teaching of them in the ways of Christ (maturity). 

Whilst I can think of a few people who have managed to come all th way through to maturity in isolation form any other believer, they are few and far between.  Jesus said that those who follow him are a family - and the best way to experience life as a family is together.

It's also worth remembering that salvation is often a process that takes time and one needs support and encouragement when working through processes.
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Bubbles

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #110 on: December 03, 2015, 07:11:51 PM »
There's an idea of surrendering in Christianity?  Do you have a chapter and verse for that claim, Rose?  I'd agree that Judaism includes a lot of questioning (perhaps too much) but then Chriostians are told to 'test the spirits', and to use our discernment about things - both of which involve a lot of questions.
I think the problem I have with Judaism is two-fold; they were too keen to retain the Good News for themselves, and the more I read about the nature of 'Messiah' throughout the Old Testament, the more I see that the references refer to someone/some being remarkably like Jesus.

You can't seriously question in Christianity because the dogma tells you what you " ought " to believe and think and all to often your salvation depends on you accepting a certain line of thought.

Judaism is more based on what you do, so opinions on this and that are quite varied.






Hope

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #111 on: December 03, 2015, 07:12:42 PM »
Is there such a thing as too much questioning, then?
I think there can be - imagine an engineer who constantly questions the validity of a design. Are they ever going to produce anything?
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Hope

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #112 on: December 03, 2015, 07:14:48 PM »
You can't seriously question in Christianity because the dogma tells you what you " ought " to believe and think and all to often your salvation depends on you accepting a certain line of thought.
Well, you have clearly experienced a Christianity that is not only way outside of my experience but also very much outside of mainstream Christianity, Rose.

Quote
Judaism is more based on what you do, so opinions on this and that are quite varied.
Are they?  Old Testament teaching is far stricter and more rigid than any New Testament equivalent.
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Bubbles

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #113 on: December 03, 2015, 07:14:56 PM »
Unlike the JWs for whom the 'Kingdom Hall' is a physical place, Christianity uses the same term for the people of God as for the building in which they will often meet. 

Amongst his final instructions to his disciples was the instruction 'to go out and make disciples'.  Making disciples involves several states, starting with introducing someone to Jesus (or the other way round if you'd prefer), leading them to a point where they feel able to commit their lives to Christ - the actual act of which I, as a Christian, can never be part of as it is between the individual and God - followed by the on-going teaching of them in the ways of Christ (maturity). 

Whilst I can think of a few people who have managed to come all th way through to maturity in isolation form any other believer, they are few and far between.  Jesus said that those who follow him are a family - and the best way to experience life as a family is together.

It's also worth remembering that salvation is often a process that takes time and one needs support and encouragement when working through processes.

Support and encouragement all to often consists of bringing someone to accept approved beliefs.

It's a sort of peer pressure.


Bubbles

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #114 on: December 03, 2015, 07:22:28 PM »
Well, you have clearly experienced a Christianity that is not only way outside of my experience but also very much outside of mainstream Christianity, Rose.
Are they?  Old Testament teaching is far stricter and more rigid than any New Testament equivalent.

Well I can't question different aspects of the story of Moses or Abraham because in Christianity the story only means one thing.

Which is how the church has interpreted it.

My experiences arn't outside mainstream Christianity though, that's the issue.

Alpha courses only ask certain controlled questions whose  correct  answer, someone else has already decided.

Some Christian courses are worse than others...... :o

When you are disconnected from Christianity some of them appear really bizarre and contrived.

 

Shaker

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #115 on: December 03, 2015, 07:50:58 PM »
I think there can be - imagine an engineer who constantly questions the validity of a design. Are they ever going to produce anything?
Yes. A better design.

That's what questioning is for.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

NicholasMarks

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #116 on: December 04, 2015, 09:43:08 AM »
NM

Please define, exactly and precisely, what the word "science" means in the post quoted.

I ask because, from the context, it does NOT mean what I mean when I use the word.

What does science mean to me???

Oh Owlswing can’t you come up with a more taxing question??

Science for me, is, accepting all the science that has been discovered by modern science as true and accurate, and then realising that they are stumped over unifying the four key universal forces…and so, doing it for them…and in so doing unearthing much more than I actually bargained for…like…the universe is made from a single, and wonderful material. It is invisible, superabundant and follows repeatable patterns, over and over again. Your Jewish God speaks of it in Isaiah, as his ‘Mighty Power’ and in my Holy Bible as his superabundant ‘Dynamic Energy’ . Science has a more drab name for it.

The key knowledge it yields is that there are two dimensions working one over the top of other and the conflicts between the two create a ‘Magnetic Friction’ and it is this magnetic friction that gives us gravity, nuclear power, electro-magnetic force and life…but you can find all that in my previous posts…especially this...God's Mighty Power' is all owned by Almighty God and his much loved prodigy…Jesus Christ.

Now…it doesn’t matter whether you are Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindi or any other religion…the only way to the root of this science is by following the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ.


Owlswing

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #117 on: December 04, 2015, 12:44:13 PM »
What does science mean to me???

Oh Owlswing can’t you come up with a more taxing question??

Science for me, is, accepting all the science that has been discovered by modern science as true and accurate, and then realising that they are stumped over unifying the four key universal forces…and so, doing it for them…and in so doing unearthing much more than I actually bargained for…like…the universe is made from a single, and wonderful material. It is invisible, superabundant and follows repeatable patterns, over and over again. Your Jewish God speaks of it in Isaiah, as his ‘Mighty Power’ and in my Holy Bible as his superabundant ‘Dynamic Energy’ . Science has a more drab name for it.

The key knowledge it yields is that there are two dimensions working one over the top of other and the conflicts between the two create a ‘Magnetic Friction’ and it is this magnetic friction that gives us gravity, nuclear power, electro-magnetic force and life…but you can find all that in my previous posts…especially this...God's Mighty Power' is all owned by Almighty God and his much loved prodigy…Jesus Christ.

Now…it doesn’t matter whether you are Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindi or any other religion…the only way to the root of this science is by following the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ.

In other words what you consider to be science anyone with a modicum of intelligence considers to be quasi-religious quasi-scientific rubbish, and nonsense!
If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some do what you must!

Owlswing

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #118 on: December 04, 2015, 12:56:01 PM »
Oh good! You're back. Been away sacrificing babies to Baal have you?

Baal? Who the heck is he/she/it?

Whichever he/she/it has no place in my pantheon and, funnily enough, sacrificing babies to their deity was one of the things that the Romans accused the Christians of doing! Citation: Wilken, Robert L; The Christians as the Romans saw them, Publisher - Yale University Press, 1984 (available at the British Library)
If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some do what you must!

NicholasMarks

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #119 on: December 04, 2015, 12:59:11 PM »
In other words what you consider to be science anyone with a modicum of intelligence considers to be quasi-religious quasi-scientific rubbish, and nonsense!

I thought I had made it quite clear Owlswing that I accept all science, which is like saying...I have explored modern science, followed its calculations and logic and accept many of its principles but to unify the highest reasoning behind their knowledge-base we need a little Biblical help and in the Gospels, this help spreads out into a little Freudian logic too but, of course, Jesus Christ and Almighty God were a long time before either Einstein, Darwin or Freud.

Now it will be interesting to hear your next snarling onslaught because Freudian logic tells me there will be one.


floo

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #120 on: December 04, 2015, 01:28:37 PM »
NM, as has been said many times, your definition of science doesn't appear to be that of anyone else.

ad_orientem

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #121 on: December 04, 2015, 01:48:39 PM »
Baal? Who the heck is he/she/it?

Whichever he/she/it has no place in my pantheon and, funnily enough, sacrificing babies to their deity was one of the things that the Romans accused the Christians of doing! Citation: Wilken, Robert L; The Christians as the Romans saw them, Publisher - Yale University Press, 1984 (available at the British Library)

You should know who Baal is. The Israelites ended up worshipping him on a number of occasions, even putting their firstborn through the fire.
Rationalism leads to Protestantism leads to atheism.

Shaker

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #122 on: December 04, 2015, 01:50:11 PM »
Why would Owlswing know?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

NicholasMarks

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #123 on: December 04, 2015, 02:36:04 PM »
NM, as has been said many times, your definition of science doesn't appear to be that of anyone else.

I would have thought my answer here would have silenced all critics Floo...except, of course, those who have little understanding about science and who can't see that accepting science is the highest foundation for exploring and unifying that science...and if the Holy Bible gives a helping hand then so be it...especially when it becomes clear that the author of the Holy Bible had a very high grasp of that knowledge contained within this science.

Closed minds only have the ability to repeat their rhetoric so it would be helpful if you embroidered a little on my errors...as you see them. 






BeRational

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Re: The Highest Jew
« Reply #124 on: December 04, 2015, 02:40:37 PM »
Quote
Closed minds only have the ability to repeat their rhetoric

Exactly!
I see gullible people, everywhere!