TATA and the future of steel making in Britain

[jeremyp]

You didn't say those things in the post I replied to. What I said was correct for the post it referred to, including your myopia and dumbass statement.

Nonsense. You simply did your normal knee-jerk spasm in response to something you didn't like.

You didn't answer the question either.

What is the point of spending millions (billions?) making something that nobody will buy at the cost of making it?

"Nobody" includes British industry by the way and also the Great British Public including you.

[L.A.]

Bollocks to the global environment (in the guise of 'green policies/taxes') seems to be the take-home message here.

Certainly from Jack Knave anyway.

It seems as if we are the only ones who are seriously applying Green taxes to their steel industry putting it at a competitive disadvantage. If our steel industry shuts down, does anyone believe that the imported steel that replaces it would have been subject to the same taxes?

The muesli knitters can be very naive.

[jeremyp]

It seems as if we are the only ones who are seriously applying Green taxes to their steel industry putting it at a competitive disadvantage. If our steel industry shuts down, does anyone believe that the imported steel that replaces it would have been subject to the same taxes?

The muesli knitters can be very naive.

I've never heard anybody in the industry claim that green taxes are causing the current problems. Do you have a citation?

[Shaker]

It seems as if we are the only ones who are seriously applying Green taxes to their steel industry putting it at a competitive disadvantage. If our steel industry shuts down, does anyone believe that the imported steel that replaces it would have been subject to the same taxes?

The muesli knitters can be very naive.

Stereotyping and sloganeering is always a handy substitute for thought for the intellectually hobbled, I've always found.

[Jack Knave]

Bollocks to the global environment (in the guise of 'green policies/taxes') seems to be the take-home message here.

Certainly from Jack Knave anyway.

Why do you think Chinese steel is so cheap?

So we save the planet with our Green ways; NOT, as our contribution is a small drop in the atmosphere compared to China's and India's output, and die of starvation as we have no jobs and no economy as we price ourselves out of all markets. And in fact by forcing our industries out of production 'cause of this these industries go to countries which have high levels of pollution and low standard requirements. And once these skills are lost they are very hard to get back, which is why we have no nuclear power industry but have to grovel and pay over the odds to foreign firms. Privatisation has failed dramatically in the way some claim nationalisation has.

[L.A.]

I've never heard anybody in the industry claim that green taxes are causing the current problems. Do you have a citation?

The BBC reports have quoted that as a contributory factor.

[L.A.]

Stereotyping and sloganeering is always a handy substitute for thought for the intellectually hobbled, I've always found.

I don't know how significant the Green tax burden is in this case - but if we replaced British steel with imported Chinese steel, would there be any less CO2 emitted worldwide?

If you believe that there would be, I'd call that naive. If you class yourself as a muesli knitter, then you have my sympathy.

[Shaker]

Point proven.

[L.A.]

I've never heard anybody in the industry claim that green taxes are causing the current problems. Do you have a citation?

Delving I have found a few more:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/11455982/Green-power-levies-making-British-steel-uncompetitive.html

https://next.ft.com/content/9c918afe-62a9-11e5-a28b-50226830d644

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3278597/Our-idiotic-leaders-obsessed-green-sabotaged-Britain-s-steel-industry-writes-DOMINIC-LAWSON.html

http://www.thegwpf.com/uk-steel-crisis-gwpf-calls-on-government-to-scrap-carbon-floor-price/

[jeremyp]

Why do you think Chinese steel is so cheap?

Because they have lots of iron ore and coal. Also, labour is cheap and they have a surplus, so they are dumping it on the international market.

[jeremyp]

The BBC reports have quoted that as a contributory factor.

Please post a link to one of these reports, preferably one with an analysis of the costs involved.

[jeremyp]

Delving I have found a few more:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/11455982/Green-power-levies-making-British-steel-uncompetitive.html

https://next.ft.com/content/9c918afe-62a9-11e5-a28b-50226830d644

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3278597/Our-idiotic-leaders-obsessed-green-sabotaged-Britain-s-steel-industry-writes-DOMINIC-LAWSON.html

http://www.thegwpf.com/uk-steel-crisis-gwpf-calls-on-government-to-scrap-carbon-floor-price/

OK thanks.

How do you propose we fix the situation?

[Jack Knave]

Because they have lots of iron ore and coal. Also, labour is cheap and they have a surplus, so they are dumping it on the international market.

But power is also cheap there because they have used the cheapest form; as you say coal, which ignores the need to make it Green. The iron ore is coming from Australia, they don't have enough in their own landscape. It is also cheap because it is subsidized.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Cynical Mind,

According to t'tirernet, Germany subsidise green tax to the hilt, and the Tories are thinking about doing the same thing in 2017, sly bastards those Tories, first get rid of heavy industry then we don't have to subsidise them.

I have always wondered why I am not Prime Minister, given my keen mind and sparkling disposition then I remember, I never attended Oxford.

Gonnagle.

[Aruntraveller]

I have always wondered why I am not Prime Minister, given my keen mind and sparkling disposition then I remember, I never attended Oxford.

That's not the reason Gonners.

It's simple - you're not an arrogant bastard.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Trent,

Ah!! Occam's Razor, simplest answer.

Gonnagle.

[L.A.]

Because they have lots of iron ore and coal. Also, labour is cheap and they have a surplus, so they are dumping it on the international market.

The point is though, you HAVE to use a lot of coal to make steel, but (it seems) we apply high green taxes to it's use in steel making and the other countries don't. Which means our steel in less competitive and we have to import foreign steel, which used exactly the same amount of coal as home produced steel - plus the costs (and CO2 emissions) used in shipping.

(but for some reason the muesli knitters think this is a good thing)

[Hope]

And our Green policies are making power far too expensive which is why it costs so much to run these industries, making them less competitive.

JK, and others, I understand that the energy price problem predates the Green policies by many years.  Yes, it is an issue, but one that has never been properly addresed.

[Hope]

The BBC reports have quoted that as a contributory factor.

The only BBC reports I've read refer to energy taxes.  That may or not include green taxes.

[Hope]

Because they have lots of iron ore and coal. Also, labour is cheap and they have a surplus, so they are dumping it on the international market.

Sounds rather like what Britain did 150 years ago, doesn't it!! ;-)

[Hope]

I have always wondered why I am not Prime Minister, given my keen mind and sparkling disposition then I remember, I never attended Oxford.

Nor did Harold Wilson, Jim Callaghan, John Major, or Gordon Brown

[L.A.]

The only BBC reports I've read refer to energy taxes.  That may or not include green taxes.

I'm not quite sure what the difference is, but the result is the same.

[Hope]

Tbe Government has today announced that between them, the UK and Welsh Governments will take a 25% stake in any buy-out of TATA's businesses in the UK.

Whilst this can be seen as good news in the short-term, how does such a process legally differ from subsidizing such a business?

[Harrowby Hall]

Nor did Harold Wilson, Jim Callaghan, John Major, or Gordon Brown

Ah.  So it was a different Harold Wilson who took a first in PPE at Jesus College, Oxford.

Thank you for clearing that up.

[Hope]

Ah.  So it was a different Harold Wilson who took a first in PPE at Jesus College, Oxford.

Thank you for clearing that up.

Sorry, HH.  I hadn't checked my fact, just assumed what I had been told in the past by Labour supporters was true.