Author Topic: Brexit - the next steps  (Read 141518 times)

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33540
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4950 on: October 09, 2019, 01:57:47 PM »
No it isnít, itís like calling him Daniel which is his name and Boris is Johnsonís name.
That doesn't detract from the creation of a character called Boris as well. T

Gordon

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14610
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4951 on: October 09, 2019, 02:06:56 PM »
No it isnít, itís like calling him Daniel which is his name and Boris is Johnsonís name.

Fair enough, since that is true: however, since he isn't known as 'Boris' to his friends and family it does seem that he uses 'Boris' as an identity specific to his political persona.   

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24059
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4952 on: October 09, 2019, 07:11:20 PM »
Well - yes & no. Alexander Boris etc.
Jeremy is my name, it's not my only name but it is the one I choose to be known by. If Boris lying liar Johnson prefers to be known as Boris rather than any of his other given names, it's fine by me. I expect Boris to be about as popular as Adolf is in Germany in a couple of years time, much like Mr Thorpe and Mr Corbyn scuppered the popularity of my name.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11597
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4953 on: October 09, 2019, 08:54:25 PM »
Well I would stop thinking of you as being an abject coward, for one thing.
It's pretty far down the pan already. Never mind the economic chaos and the rampant racism, I can't see it surviving as one country for more than a few years past Brexit.

I don't think we will. I don't know how old you are, but I think it won't take more than a year or two for it to become blindingly obvious that Brexit has been and will continue to be a disaster. Even if we do disagree forever, that's no reason not to express our views. You don't refuse to engage with creationists or Alan Burns just because they'll never agree with you.
The BBC has remained completely neutral. The right wing press, on the other hand, has been feeding us a diet of lies about the EU for 40 years.

I find it very disappointing to think that you're one of those people jp, that think the BBC is even handed with the way it presents its brexit content, I thought we leavers were supposed to be the thick ones?

Just 'Question Time', alone leavers are outnumbered on every show, when was the last time the remainers were outnumbered on this show?

You wont be able to tell me when the remainers were outnumbered on 'Question Time', because it's never happened.

And that's only one instance of their institutional bias, they're also biased right across the whole board, if you can't see this jp, that's even the worse for you.

Regards, ippy.

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24059
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4954 on: October 09, 2019, 09:00:42 PM »
I find it very disappointing to think that you're one of those people jp, that think the BBC is even handed with the way it presents its brexit content, I thought we leavers were supposed to be the thick ones?
I'm very disappointed you refuse to engage on the subject.

Quote
Just 'Question Time', alone leavers are outnumbered on every show, when was the last time the remainers were outnumbered on this show?
Well if all the Leavers are refusing to actually put their case, I don't blame the BBC.

Quote
And that's only one instance of their institutional bias, they're also biased right across the whole board, if you can't see this jp, that's even the worse for you.
Nonsense, during the referendum campaign, they cut the leavers far too much slack.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10882
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4955 on: October 10, 2019, 07:58:28 AM »
Just 'Question Time', alone leavers are outnumbered on every show, when was the last time the remainers were outnumbered on this show?
Non-sense - sometimes when there are odd number of guests there may be 3 leavers, 2 remainers, sometimes the opposite but over the course of a number of programmes the panelists are broadly balanced.

Tonight we have:
Grant Shapps (Leaver)
Lisa Nandy (Leaver)
Theo Paphitis (Leaver)
Rupert Read (no idea)
Julia Hartley-Brewer (Leaver)

Doesn't look very balanced to me.

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11597
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4956 on: October 10, 2019, 12:36:47 PM »
I'm very disappointed you refuse to engage on the subject.
Well if all the Leavers are refusing to actually put their case, I don't blame the BBC.
Nonsense, during the referendum campaign, they cut the leavers far too much slack.

Now who's doing the, avoiding at least I've said why?  During the period just before the referendum vote, the BBC obeyed the law where they have no choice the law requires them to be even handed we all know that as obviously you should do. (I don't know the exact terms to use but during an election period broadcasters by law have to be even handed, if not they're in some sort of trouble). 

Proff you must have been up all night looking for that one occasion were there any others where the leavers outnumbered the remainers? I somehow doubt it but if there were and this appears to be the only one occasion you could find this hardly puts a dent in the case I was putting forward and when if you were to add to that the general overall obvious remain bias the BBC presents in every relevant programme puts on air, even in a lot of programmes that are not so obviously relevant.

I worry for those of you that don't think the BBC has a bias for remain, I think it's termed as 'being in denial', it's such a blindingly obvious bias.

Regards, ippy.

PS if you think they cut the leavers too much slack during the referendum you were obviously wrong because during the campaign too much slack as you call it was put to one side at that time when the BBC had to be even handed with the treatment they gave to both sides leave/remain and that even treatment's now lacking with the BBC's coverage and something it would still look like if they were to continue being even handed after the event, which obviously they're not.
 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 01:03:09 PM by ippy »

Dicky Underpants

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3531
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4957 on: October 10, 2019, 04:14:22 PM »

Proff you must have been up all night looking for that one occasion



ippy

Since the programme the Prof cited is the one to be broadcast tonight, I don't think he'd have had to wear out his fingers finding out what the views of the participants are.

I see that even the Daily Express conceded the previous week's QT had a balanced panel. I use the word 'balanced' with some irony, since one of the Brexiteers was Melanie Phillips, whom our very own SteveH has previously and wickedly called "a swivel-eyed basket case".
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 04:23:47 PM by Dicky Underpants »

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10882
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4958 on: October 10, 2019, 04:39:38 PM »
Proff you must have been up all night looking for that one occasion were there any others where the leavers outnumbered the remainers? I somehow doubt it but if there were and this appears to be the only one occasion you could find this hardly puts a dent in the case I was putting forward ...
Didn't have to spend any time - this is tonight's programme - 4-1 in favour of leave.

And unless you somehow consider all Labour politicians to be ardent remain then many weeks over the past few have had the various flavours of leave in the majority.

Robbie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4959 on: October 10, 2019, 05:19:14 PM »
Jeremy is my name, it's not my only name but it is the one I choose to be known by. If Boris lying liar Johnson prefers to be known as Boris rather than any of his other given names, it's fine by me. I expect Boris to be about as popular as Adolf is in Germany in a couple of years time, much like Mr Thorpe and Mr Corbyn scuppered the popularity of my name.

Not to mention Mr Kyle (& no, I'm not a fan). It's a good name, one of my nephews is a Jeremy.

Isn't one of Alexander Boris's name 'Piffle' or something like that?
True Wit is Nature to Advantage drest,
          What oft was Thought, but neíer so well Exprest

Littleroses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2800
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4960 on: October 10, 2019, 05:23:41 PM »
I had a miscarriage a couple of years after our eldest girl was born, if it had been a boy it would have been called Jeremy. Not a name I would consider these days.
'Don't do anything I would do'. RJG

Robbie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4961 on: October 10, 2019, 05:33:32 PM »
ippy
I see that even the Daily Express conceded the previous week's QT had a balanced panel. I use the word 'balanced' with some irony, since one of the Brexiteers was Melanie Phillips, whom our very own SteveH has previously and wickedly called "a swivel-eyed basket case".

A very interesting swivel-eyed basket case though. I don't like her politics but find her fascinating as a character.

I had a miscarriage a couple of years after our eldest girl was born, if it had been a boy it would have been called Jeremy. Not a name I would consider these days.

Snap, I too thought of Jeremy for a boy. I have an Uncle Jeremy and my sis called one of her sons that. I still think it's a good name. Jeremy Irons wears it well.
True Wit is Nature to Advantage drest,
          What oft was Thought, but neíer so well Exprest

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11597
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4962 on: October 10, 2019, 05:43:24 PM »
ippy

Since the programme the Prof cited is the one to be broadcast tonight, I don't think he'd have had to wear out his fingers finding out what the views of the participants are.

I see that even the Daily Express conceded the previous week's QT had a balanced panel. I use the word 'balanced' with some irony, since one of the Brexiteers was Melanie Phillips, whom our very own SteveH has previously and wickedly called "a swivel-eyed basket case".

Yes Dicky U, for the sake of argument let's say your comments about the Daily Express are 100% right, this still doesn't let the bias the BBC has for remain off the hook, they are bordering on 100% biased in favour of remaining in the EU cause, that's assuming that you'll always have the odd one or two people bucking the trend.

Regards, ippy.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 05:47:58 PM by ippy »

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33540
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4963 on: October 10, 2019, 05:55:03 PM »
A very interesting swivel-eyed basket case though. I don't like her politics but find her fascinating as a character.

Snap, I too thought of Jeremy for a boy. I have an Uncle Jeremy and my sis called one of her sons that. I still think it's a good name. Jeremy Irons wears it well.

Now and again I find myself agreeing with Mad Mel, it is very very rare though.

One of best friends - we were each other's best man - is a Jeremy.

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11597
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4964 on: October 10, 2019, 06:02:18 PM »
Didn't have to spend any time - this is tonight's programme - 4-1 in favour of leave.

And unless you somehow consider all Labour politicians to be ardent remain then many weeks over the past few have had the various flavours of leave in the majority.

I, like so many don't know where the Labour party's coming from these days, I suspect fishing for votes is in there somewhere, even then that's not very clear either but one thing's certain the Labour M P's from a lot of the constituencies where the majorities voted leave are betraying their constituents.

Just as a footnote I'm not a supporter of any of the main political parties we have at the moment, at the moment I'm voting for whoever I think might be successful in taking us out of the EU, I don't care what party or if they're liars or not.

Regards, ippy.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 07:12:38 PM by ippy »

Robbie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4965 on: October 10, 2019, 06:51:45 PM »
NS:- Now and again I find myself agreeing with Mad Mel, it is very very rare though.

Same here, I like the way she puts her arguments even if I disagree. Never thought of her as swivel-eyed! I'll pay more attention to details in future.
True Wit is Nature to Advantage drest,
          What oft was Thought, but neíer so well Exprest

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11597
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4966 on: October 11, 2019, 08:11:36 AM »
Have a look at at how the things went with 'The Pentonville Five' in 1972, in my opinion things will be going this way on a far larger scale if there's a final attempt to thwart the 2016 referendum result.

Regards, ippy.

Trentvoyager

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5494
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4967 on: October 11, 2019, 09:14:39 AM »
Have a look at at how the things went with 'The Pentonville Five' in 1972, in my opinion things will be going this way on a far larger scale if there's a final attempt to thwart the 2016 referendum result.

Regards, ippy.

Unfortunately either way there will be mass civil unrest imo. Maybe not immediately in the case of leaving, but when the public realises it's been sold nothing but empty promises by a bunch of self interested tossers who haven't done a real days work in their lives: amongst that number, Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Farage, Cummings then you will see civil unrest and none of us will be immune.
Pretty much everything in politics now boils down to a question of whether it's being driven by a sinister hidden agenda or just basic incompetence or ignorance. What a time to be alive - James O'Brien

Harrowby Hall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3853
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4968 on: October 11, 2019, 09:50:15 AM »
... but one thing's certain the Labour M P's from a lot of the constituencies where the majorities voted leave are betraying their constituents.

Not only can you not spell "pigeon" but you are clueless about the constitutional role of Members of Parliament. They are representatives not delegates. This was exemplified by Edmund Burke in his address to the voters of Bristol when he told them that an MP  owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24059
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4969 on: October 11, 2019, 10:09:06 AM »
Now who's doing the, avoiding at least I've said why?
This doesn't make any sense.

You made an unsupported assertion that the BBC is biased against leavers. I merely posited a reason why they might be forced to do so.

Quote
During the period just before the referendum vote, the BBC obeyed the law where they have no choice the law requires them to be even handed we all know that as obviously you should do.
But the problem was that they would run a story which would invariably be based on Remainers giving reasons why leaving is bad (rarely the other way around, since you leavers seem to want to keep your reasons secret), but to satisfy the need for balance they'd ask the leave campaign for comment and the leave campaign would just give them a statement saying the story was not true. So, for pretty much every story, the last thing the listener would hear would be "the Leave campaign denied this" or an equivalent which would go completely unchallenged.

If you want to claim that Question Time is biased in the balance of its guests, you provide the evidence. Until you do, you just have an unsupported assertion.

While you're at it, why not do some research into how you are going to be better off and answer the question that you have been avoiding for weeks.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

wigginhall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17565
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4970 on: October 11, 2019, 10:10:16 AM »
(Reply to Harrowby Hall) Yes, Brexit is producing a revisionist politics, where MPs are supposed to act out the voters' wishes, contrary to the idea of representational democracy.   I'm not sure how much of it is ignorance, some I suppose, but also a right wing attempt to derail parliament, and substitute direct democracy.  Thus, the referendum is sacred and not repeatable, but the 2017 general election is irrelevant.  Will there be a Reichstag fire or equivalent?
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24059
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4971 on: October 11, 2019, 10:10:47 AM »

Isn't one of Alexander Boris's name 'Piffle' ?

It is now.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

bluehillside Retd.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14243
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4972 on: October 11, 2019, 11:48:49 AM »
Wiggs,

Quote
(Reply to Harrowby Hall) Yes, Brexit is producing a revisionist politics, where MPs are supposed to act out the voters' wishes, contrary to the idea of representational democracy.   I'm not sure how much of it is ignorance, some I suppose, but also a right wing attempt to derail parliament, and substitute direct democracy.  Thus, the referendum is sacred and not repeatable, but the 2017 general election is irrelevant.  Will there be a Reichstag fire or equivalent?

Sensible as always. The problem with MPs acting out the voters' wishes though is that the referendum question was so asymmetric. The remain option was clear - the status quo. Axiomatically though if you leave somewhere you have to go somewhere else, and thus the prospectus of the leave campaign was critical because it needed to describe the leave outcome with equivalent clarity and certainty to the remain outcome. And the problem with that is not only that we know so much of the leave prospectus to have been utter bollocks, but also that the people cheerleading for each outcome each claim that that's what 17.4m voted for.

Still, maybe Leo Varadkar will bail out BS Boris and we'll end up amputating just one leg rather than both legs, or maybe the ERG will decide that the deal isn't proper Brexit so will sabotage it again, or maybe a soft exit will so stiffen the resolve of the Brexit party that they'll romp the election, wipe out the tories and crash us out as their first act in power. Who can possibly say eh?             
"To understand via the heart is not to understand."

Michel de Montaigne

wigginhall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17565
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4973 on: October 11, 2019, 11:55:29 AM »
One thing I hadn't realized is that in the event of no deal, the EHIC health insurance scheme would lapse.  OK, you can get private health insurance, but that often doesn't cover existing conditions.  So people who have had a serious illness wouldn't be able to travel?   Madness.
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

bluehillside Retd.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14243
Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #4974 on: October 11, 2019, 12:10:21 PM »
Wiggs,

Quote
One thing I hadn't realized is that in the event of no deal, the EHIC health insurance scheme would lapse.  OK, you can get private health insurance, but that often doesn't cover existing conditions.  So people who have had a serious illness wouldn't be able to travel?   Madness.

Project fear! Project fear! Oh, hang on...
"To understand via the heart is not to understand."

Michel de Montaigne