UK's greatest sportsperson

[Nearly Sane]

Is apparently Andy Murray

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2016/12/09/wait-uks-greatest-ever-sportsperson-revealed/

[SqueakyVoice]

Well, I'm glad that's settled then.

Perhaps now we can finally decide whether red jelly is better than green jelly just by setting up a poll?

[Anchorman]

Is apparently Andy Murray

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2016/12/09/wait-uks-greatest-ever-sportsperson-revealed/

Oh; he's definately british now, then?

[Sebastian Toe]

Oh; he's definately british now, then?

He always has been.

ps he's also Scottish, but don't let on.

[Hope]

He always has been.

ps he's also Scottish, but don't let on.

It's perfectly acceptable to let on that he's Scottish, Seb.  Just don't tell the great Scottish people that someone can be Scottish (or English, or Welsh, or Northern Irish) AND British at the same time.  It spoils their nationalistic fervour.

[Sebastian Toe]

It's perfectly acceptable to let on that he's Scottish, Seb.  Just don't tell the great Scottish people that someone can be Scottish (or English, or Welsh, or Northern Irish) AND British at the same time.  It spoils their nationalistic fervour.

Well I am Scottish and I have no problem with being both.
In fact I dont know many friends and relatives who disagree with that statement.

[jeremyp]

Regardless of Murray's nationality, is he really Britain's greatest ever sportsman? Probably not. Steve Redgrave is merely the first counter example that comes to mind.

[Hope]

Regardless of Murray's nationality, is he really Britain's greatest ever sportsman? Probably not. Steve Redgrave is merely the first counter example that comes to mind.

Or that other Scotsman, on two wheels.  After all, both he and SR are 'Sir's.

That got mne thinking: how many living sporting 'Knights' (of both genders) do we currently have?

[Nearly Sane]

It's perfectly acceptable to let on that he's Scottish, Seb.  Just don't tell the great Scottish people that someone can be Scottish (or English, or Welsh, or Northern Irish) AND British at the same time.  It spoils their nationalistic fervour.

so you have just told every one Scottish that they think they can't be British! Care to try expressing yourself again?

[ProfessorDavey]

Or that other Scotsman, on two wheels.  After all, both he and SR are 'Sir's.

That got mne thinking: how many living sporting 'Knights' (of both genders) do we currently have?

There you go:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sporting_knights_and_dames

Not sure it is very enlightening. The most interesting point to me is the disproportionate number in sports that are seen to be 'establishment', e.g. horse racing and yachting.

[Nearly Sane]

There you go:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sporting_knights_and_dames

Not sure it is very enlightening. The most interesting point to me is the disproportionate number in sports that are seen to be 'establishment', e.g. horse racing and yachting.

So the jockeys are middle class?

[ProfessorDavey]

So the jockeys are middle class?

Nope, but they ride horses owned by the royals. How many football clubs are owned by members of the Royal family?

[ProfessorDavey]

So the jockeys are middle class?

And actually the majority of racing Knights aren't the jockeys but the trainers, who are, of course, even more closely linked to the establishment who own the horses.

[Nearly Sane]

Nope, but they ride horses owned by the royals. How many football clubs are owned by members of the Royal family?

or even 'a' Royal family see Man City. Your middle class disregard of Tony McCoy is shockingly obvious. Who is your favourite bridge/polo player?

[Nearly Sane]

And actually the majority of racing Knights aren't the jockeys but the trainers, who are, of course, even more closely linked to the establishment who own the horses.

somewhat fittingly there is a few tons of straw there. Did I say 'racing'? This misrepresenting stuff, it's a bit of a habit for you!

[jeremyp]

Or that other Scotsman, on two wheels.  After all, both he and SR are 'Sir's.

That got mne thinking: how many living sporting 'Knights' (of both genders) do we currently have?

Good point: Chris Hoy.

[ProfessorDavey]

or even 'a' Royal family see Man City. Your middle class disregard of Tony McCoy is shockingly obvious. Who is your favourite bridge/polo player?

Clearly I'm talking about the British royal family on the basis that we are talking about British honours.

Oh I also I see the good old fashion class warfare is out in force. I'm not making any comment about the validity of the individuals knighted, merely pointing out the bias in favour of some sports over others.

I'm not really interested in horse racing, not because I'm middle class, but because I've never really seen the attraction in watching horses running around a track, and also because I'm not into betting, which is a critical factor in horse racing in a manner it isn't in most other sports.

So I've nothing against Tony McCoy, very clearly a great in his sport, but interesting to note that he was knighted immediately on his retirement in 2015. As far as I can see there are no footballers ever who have been knighted for their contribution as a player (i.e. knighted during their career or immediately on retirement). The only football knights have been knighted for services in football administration well after their playing careers ended.

So as a comparison, McCoy was knighted straight after the end of his glittering career, why not Bobby Charlton who was knighted only in 1994 for 'services to football (effectively administration) - why not directly after he retired in the late 70s after the most glittering career (World Cup and top scorer for England) - how come Gary Lineker remains stuck on an OBE despite a glittering career as a player and subsequently in all sorts of areas.

But if we are on class warfare - important to not that racing is the 'Sport of kings' although also a big working class sport, football has historically been a working class sport, and even though it now is firmly established in the middle classes it has never been the preserve of the establishment elite.

[ProfessorDavey]

somewhat fittingly there is a few tons of straw there. Did I say 'racing'? This misrepresenting stuff, it's a bit of a habit for you!

Oh get over yourself.

I made a point about the disproportionate (in my view) number of knights in racing (note racing, not jockeys). You responded that jockeys aren't middle class and I responded that the knights tended to be the trainers - what actually is your point except having a pop.

And actually I would suspect that most successful jockey are fully fledged paid up members of the middle class - being a successful jockey isn't a minimum wage occupation NS.

[ProfessorDavey]

Who is your favourite bridge/polo player?

No idea - i don't think I could name a single bridge or polo player, and I certainly don't understand the rules of either.

Oh no - that's wrong - actually I think I can name two polo players - Ginger Baker - you know the drummer from Cream - saw an interesting programme about him which revealed that recently he has got really into polo. And bizarrely a colleague of mine, a northern working class guy who has made loads of dosh as a entrepreneur and has started playing polo - not at a high level I think. But there you go, two polo players I can name - Ginger Baker and my colleague Adam.

[jeremyp]

Prince Charles used to play polo.

[Nearly Sane]

Oh get over yourself.

I made a point about the disproportionate (in my view) number of knights in racing (note racing, not jockeys). You responded that jockeys aren't middle class and I responded that the knights tended to be the trainers - what actually is your point except having a pop.

And actually I would suspect that most successful jockey are fully fledged paid up members of the middle class - being a successful jockey isn't a minimum wage occupation NS.

Why do you have some weird class issue? Do you only want successful sports people on the minimum wage?

[Sassy]

Is apparently Andy Murray

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2016/12/09/wait-uks-greatest-ever-sportsperson-revealed/

What about the people who were not in the present news reports.
For it to be the 'greatest ever sports person' all sports people from the past would have had to be included and all the people be aware of what they achieved and under what stress they achieved their goals as a sports person.

So it means nothing in the great scheme of things and I feel sorry for Andy and all the real great sports persons.
It undermines the real blood, sweat and tears of past, present and future sports persons.

Another cock-up in the minds of men thinking one person can be the greatest out of all those who have worked hard through history in their field of Sport to achieve for their Country and be the best they can for themselves.

No one person can ever be the 'greatest ever' sports person.

[ProfessorDavey]

Why do you have some weird class issue? Do you only want successful sports people on the minimum wage?

Quite the reverse - I'm more than happy for top sports people to earn to the level the market dictates for their talent. I was always against the notion of forced amateurism, such as used to be the case in rugby union as an example, as it meant that top players struggled to be able to find the time to train to the highest level unless they were independently wealthy.

But none of that is relevant to this thread and the point I was making - which was a rather odd bias in favour of certain sports in the dishing out of top honours. I'd like to see honours in sport go to the most deserving regardless of the sport they play.

[jeremyp]

Quite the reverse - I'm more than happy for top sports people to earn to the level the market dictates for their talent. I was always against the notion of forced amateurism, such as used to be the case in rugby union as an example as it meant that top players struggled to be able to find the time to train to the highest level unless they were independently wealthy.

But none of that is relevant to this thread and the point I was making - which was a rather odd bias in favour of certain sports in the dishing out of top honours. I'd like to see honours in sport go to the most deserving regardless of the sport they play.

Are you sure it's not a bias against team sports?

[ProfessorDavey]

Are you sure it's not a bias against team sports?

Perhaps, although there seem to be plenty of rugby and cricket knights. Interesting that not one of the rugby knights played rugby league rather than rugby union.