Author Topic: Graceful response to racism  (Read 252 times)

Nearly Sane

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Graceful response to racism
« on: January 09, 2017, 09:03:15 PM »

Walter

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Floo

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2017, 08:47:45 AM »
Depressing story, great response

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38561883

What a shining example of goodness that woman is. :) Those racist creeps should be banned from all eateries!
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2017, 08:50:33 AM »
What a shining example of goodness that woman is. :) Those racist creeps should be banned from all eateries!
So people shouldn't be allowed to use restaurants because you disagree with them?

Brownie

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2017, 08:56:30 AM »
Most of the time no-one would know.  We all sit in cafes and restaurants alongside people whose ideas might raise hairs but unless they show them, we wouldn't have any idea.
Those people made it obvious but the waitress has dealt with it with great dignity.

Yet there's something about the story, the sentence written on the bill, that makes me think it might have been a warped, childish attempt at humour, because who would really do something like that even if they were racist?  Now the story has been given publicity, I can imagine the pair giggling about it, stupid prats.  Just a thought.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2017, 09:04:27 AM »
Most of the time no-one would know.  We all sit in cafes and restaurants alongside people whose ideas might raise hairs but unless they show them, we wouldn't have any idea.
Those people made it obvious but the waitress has dealt with it with great dignity.

Yet there's something about the story, the sentence written on the bill, that makes me think it might have been a warped, childish attempt at humour, because who would really do something like that even if they were racist?  Now the story has been given publicity, I can imagine the pair giggling about it, stupid prats.  Just a thought.

Quite possibly, Brownie, but no less depressing

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2017, 09:23:57 AM »
The real problem here is the presence of the patronising, divisive, and demeaning practice of tipping.

I am aware of the habit of American employers of not paying serving staff - meaning that serving staff depend on customers for their remuneration, but there is no place for tipping in a civilised culture.
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Floo

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2017, 10:38:05 AM »
So people shouldn't be allowed to use restaurants because you disagree with them?

Of course they should if they are racist. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Brownie

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2017, 11:05:08 AM »
Floo, if the people could be identified, I feel the restaurant manager would be justified in banning them from that restaurant.

NS, yes it is depressing and annoying to think that people could be so insensitively childish and think it is all a big joke.   They need a wake up call.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2017, 11:09:26 AM »
Of course they should if they are racist. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
what other freedoms should racists be denied?

Floo

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2017, 11:13:32 AM »
what other freedoms should racists be denied?

Their liberty, they should be locked up, in my opinion. The now banned, Paedophile Exchange, used to bang on about their right to have sex with children, should perverts be permitted to air their views?
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2017, 11:17:58 AM »
Their liberty, they should be locked up, in my opinion. The now banned, Paedophile Exchange, used to bang on about their right to have sex with children, should perverts be permitted to air their views?

There was a time homosexuality was regarded as perverted, are you saying that campaigners for gay rights should have been licked up?

Note there is a difference between being allowed to express views and being put in jail for thinking things.

Floo

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2017, 11:23:24 AM »
There was a time homosexuality was regarded as perverted, are you saying that campaigners for gay rights should have been licked up?

Note there is a difference between being allowed to express views and being put in jail for thinking things.

You didn't answer my question, should people with harmful views like paedophiles be permitted to express their views? Homosexuality is normal not wrong, equality for woman is not wrong!
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2017, 11:28:51 AM »
You didn't answer my question, should people with harmful views like paedophiles be permitted to express their views? Homosexuality is normal not wrong, equality for woman is not wrong!
Which is your opinion. I coveted the answer in pointing out that expressing different beliefs is not the same as banning all racists from restaurants simply for being racist in thought, which is the position you have taken. Do I think paedophikes and ephebephikes should be able to argue for what they think? Yes. Just as I think people who are racist can argue for what they think.

Should they be able to call for violence or threaten violence to people? No, jyst as I think for any views that someone may argue.

Floo

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2017, 11:31:15 AM »
Which is your opinion. I coveted the answer in pointing out that expressing different beliefs is not the same as banning all racists from restaurants simply for being racist in thought, which is the position you have taken. Do I think paedophikes and ephebephikes should be able to argue for what they think? Yes. Just as I think people who are racist can argue for what they think.

Should they be able to call for violence or threaten violence to people? No, jyst as I think for any views that someone may argue.

I am gobsmacked! :o :o :o :o :o
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Gordon

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2017, 11:38:19 AM »
Their liberty, they should be locked up, in my opinion.

Aside from the practicalities of such a policy how does this tackle racism?

I'd have thought that education and awareness would be far more use and that this lady's dignified response, along with the support she has received, is much more effective in terms of making people think about the implications of the actions of these customers. Hopefully, since they will presumably be aware that their conduct is now public knowledge, it will give both them and the like-minded food for thought.   

Quote
The now banned, Paedophile Exchange, used to bang on about their right to have sex with children, should perverts be permitted to air their views?

I don't know what the content of this site was, and if it involves the likes of arranging abuse then of course it isn't acceptable.

In general terms though I want to hear extreme points of view, even distasteful ones that I and others vehemently disagree with, since that way they can be openly countered with arguments that might educate those whose outlook is of concern and also raise awareness that such views exist: much better than allowing them to persist in the undergrowth without serious challenge. 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 11:42:29 AM by Gordon »

jeremyp

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2017, 11:38:47 AM »
So people shouldn't be allowed to use restaurants because you disagree with them?
That's not what Foo wrote.
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Trentvoyager

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2017, 11:41:13 AM »
Their liberty, they should be locked up, in my opinion. The now banned, Paedophile Exchange, used to bang on about their right to have sex with children, should perverts be permitted to air their views?

If you lock up all the racists you are going to have some very full prisons with that policy Floo.
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Floo

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2017, 11:43:27 AM »
If you lock up all the racists you are going to have some very full prisons with that policy Floo.

I agree, it is a sad reflection on society that racism is rife! >:( >:( >:( >:(
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jeremyp

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2017, 11:44:07 AM »
are you saying that campaigners for gay rights should have been licked up?
If that's their gig, I see no harm in it. Try smearing them with honey first for a more enjoyable, if fattening, experience.
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jeremyp

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2017, 11:46:28 AM »
should people with harmful views like paedophiles be permitted to express their views?
If you believe in free speech, the answer has to be yes, although I accept there would have to be some limits. Inciting other people to do harm would be one.
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Brownie

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2017, 11:48:19 AM »
(Responding to Trent, I see there have been a few posts since)
Quite.  Plus outcry and demonstrations including violence, more support for the closet racist politicians.  Where would it all end?

No, what Gordon said is right, education and raised awareness is the answer - and that sort of education should start in the home.  I realise that is an ideal but I do believe in it.

All that aside, I'm sure that, in your life, you have come across people who've said stupid, thoughtless, bigoted things that you didn't like but maybe didn't take seriously at the time.  Would you have those people banned from restaurants or talk to them and expose them to different ideas?
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2017, 12:21:01 PM »
If that's their gig, I see no harm in it. Try smearing them with honey first for a more enjoyable, if fattening, experience.
I saw the typo and thought it was too good to correct

Nearly Sane

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2017, 12:22:45 PM »
That's not what Foo wrote.
which was why it was phrased as a question.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Graceful response to racism
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2017, 12:27:42 PM »
I am gobsmacked! :o :o :o :o :o
why? It's basically the principles of the classic idea of free speech in liberal thought that has been the basis for law in the west in the last hundred and fifty years.  Hadn't you noticed?