Author Topic: It was twenty years ago....  (Read 4795 times)

floo

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2017, 01:34:49 PM »
So, despite unnecessarily attacking Floo for her posting style, you are now trying to copy her. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Leave Floo alone, she is one of this forum's stars.

WOW, I am flattered!

floo

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2017, 01:35:39 PM »
Antitheism's very own Vera Lynn.

No dear, not Vera Lynn, if you heard my singing voice you would need ear protectors! ;D

Sebastian Toe

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2017, 02:07:15 PM »
Antitheism's very own Vera Lynn.
And you are Christianity's Freddie Starr ( after it wore off)!
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

Rhiannon

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2017, 02:19:54 PM »
Diana was an empty-headed waste of space.

Excellent Christian compassion there. Go you.

Free Willy

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2017, 02:22:04 PM »
And you are Christianity's Freddie Starr ( after it wore off)!
That would make you antitheism's very own Freddie Starr tribute act.

Steve H

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2017, 04:04:34 PM »
We can always rely on SteveH for an intelligent, moderate, considered post befitting one of his age and experience.
Touche!
I came to realise that every time we recognise something human in creatures, we are also recognising something creaturely in ourselves. That is central to the rejection of human supremacism as the pernicious doctrine it is.
Robert Macfarlane

Steve H

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2017, 04:07:30 PM »
Excellent Christian compassion there. Go you.
Compassion is one thing. Fake, shallow, sentimental bollocks is another.
I came to realise that every time we recognise something human in creatures, we are also recognising something creaturely in ourselves. That is central to the rejection of human supremacism as the pernicious doctrine it is.
Robert Macfarlane

Shaker

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2017, 04:09:36 PM »
Fake?

Fake?

That would be an assertion requiring evidence, wouldn't it?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Sebastian Toe

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2017, 04:21:08 PM »
That would make you antitheism's very own Freddie Starr tribute act.
That would be true if I was an antitheist. But I'm not.
Besides, any Freddie Starr tribute act is far funnier than the original.....
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

Steve H

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2017, 04:26:24 PM »
Fake?

Fake?

That would be an assertion requiring evidence, wouldn't it?
Extreme emotion from people who didn't even know her must be fake, must it not? The evidence is the sea of flowers outside Kensington Palace, and the emetic slogans on home-made banners like "Heaven needs angels too", and the fact that tabloid gossip-columnists who only days before had been slagging her off big-time suddenly came over all grief-stricken.
I came to realise that every time we recognise something human in creatures, we are also recognising something creaturely in ourselves. That is central to the rejection of human supremacism as the pernicious doctrine it is.
Robert Macfarlane

Free Willy

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2017, 05:00:01 PM »
That would be true if I was an antitheist. But I'm not.
Besides, any Freddie Starr tribute act is far funnier than the original.....
It is for the easily pleased I suppose.

Rhiannon

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2017, 05:11:19 PM »
Compassion is one thing. Fake, shallow, sentimental bollocks is another.

I agree.

Calling a dead woman who left two grieving kids behind a 'waste of space' isn't compassionate.

Rhiannon

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2017, 05:14:12 PM »
Extreme emotion from people who didn't even know her must be fake, must it not? The evidence is the sea of flowers outside Kensington Palace, and the emetic slogans on home-made banners like "Heaven needs angels too", and the fact that tabloid gossip-columnists who only days before had been slagging her off big-time suddenly came over all grief-stricken.

Some of it was fake, no doubt, some was real, and I spoke to people who found it an outlet for grief for things entirely unconnected.

wigginhall

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2017, 05:26:23 PM »
Some of it was fake, no doubt, some was real, and I spoke to people who found it an outlet for grief for things entirely unconnected.

Yes, definitely, I also thought it had a strong mythic or fairy tale element to it, a dying princess and so on.   I'm not knocking that at all, and myths can engender very powerful emotion.    I lived near the Palace at the time, and seeing the flowers was mind-blowing, well, for me.
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Robbie

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2017, 06:14:25 PM »
SteveH :-
Diana was an empty-headed waste of space.



That she was not and it is an unnecessarily nasty thing to say. She was a remarkable woman with great empathy. As she matured, she improved.
That remark is worthty of floo! Wouldn't have expected it from you.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 06:27:54 PM by Robinson »
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          What oft was Thought, but ne’er so well Exprest

Robbie

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2017, 06:16:16 PM »
Far from it. She was - at that particular moment in history - largely alone (that's to say the first major public figure) to demonstrate that people suffering (in those days dying) from AIDS weren't contagious lepers, contrary to much of the ignorant and fearful-going-on-histrionic rhetoric of the time.

Quite
True Wit is Nature to Advantage drest,
          What oft was Thought, but ne’er so well Exprest

Robbie

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2017, 06:32:37 PM »
Some of it was fake, no doubt, some was real, and I spoke to people who found it an outlet for grief for things entirely unconnected.
[/u]

I can understand that, something sets you off.

Can't imagine anyone faking grief about the Princess, what would be the point?I certainly felt shock and grief. Also laid some flowers.
True Wit is Nature to Advantage drest,
          What oft was Thought, but ne’er so well Exprest

Steve H

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2017, 07:53:45 PM »
SteveH :-
Diana was an empty-headed waste of space.



That she was not and it is an unnecessarily nasty thing to say. She was a remarkable woman with great empathy. As she matured, she improved.
That remark is worthty of floo! Wouldn't have expected it from you.
Floo and I tend to irritate the hell out of each other, but occasionally we find common cause.
I came to realise that every time we recognise something human in creatures, we are also recognising something creaturely in ourselves. That is central to the rejection of human supremacism as the pernicious doctrine it is.
Robert Macfarlane

Shaker

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2017, 09:15:16 AM »
Floo and I tend to irritate the hell out of each other, but occasionally we find common cause.
That's nobody's idea of a recommendation.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Shaker

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2017, 09:24:45 AM »
Extreme emotion from people who didn't even know her must be fake, must it not? The evidence is the sea of flowers outside Kensington Palace, and the emetic slogans on home-made banners like "Heaven needs angels too", and the fact that tabloid gossip-columnists who only days before had been slagging her off big-time suddenly came over all grief-stricken.
Not necessarily.

For one thing, as already said by Rhiannon it's undoubtedly true that for some people Diana's death acted as a catalyst for grief of their own, in the way that recently (or not so recently) bereaved people who have been holding themselves together will suddenly break if they drop a glass or something equally trivial. It's the last straw phenomenon.

For another thing, a lot of people were grieved because they saw in Diana somebody who could have made the monarchy (an absurdity in itself, but still) more human, more approachable and more relevant as compared to the ghastly load of inbred, emotionally constipated, hidebound, inarticulate old tossbags that they still are. William and Harry are very much sons of their mother in this. 
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Steve H

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2017, 09:26:00 AM »
That's nobody's idea of a recommendation.
True...
I got lambasted yesterday on FB, by some FB friends whom I wouldn't have thought were ardent monarchists or Dianaphiles, for posting the link in the OP, with my comment that she was an empty-headed waste of space. I ended up apologising, and later deleted the post.
I came to realise that every time we recognise something human in creatures, we are also recognising something creaturely in ourselves. That is central to the rejection of human supremacism as the pernicious doctrine it is.
Robert Macfarlane

Rhiannon

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2017, 09:33:23 AM »
True...
I got lambasted yesterday on FB, by some FB friends whom I wouldn't have thought were ardent monarchists or Dianaphiles, for posting the link in the OP, with my comment that she was an empty-headed waste of space. I ended up apologising, and later deleted the post.

I wasn't a fan of Diana and I have very mixed feelings about the monarchy. I guess though that people find your comments offensive because she was a human being, a mum with people that loved her. She did good stuff and she made mistakes. Like most of us. Not a waste of space, just someone who died too young.

Shaker

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2017, 09:34:40 AM »
True...
I got lambasted yesterday on FB, by some FB friends whom I wouldn't have thought were ardent monarchists or Dianaphiles
Not necessary. You don't have to be anything of the kind - I'm not - to find your comments about a young mother of two killed in a horrible accident tasteless.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Steve H

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2017, 09:35:40 AM »
I wasn't a fan of Diana and I have very mixed feelings about the monarchy. I guess though that people find your comments offensive because she was a human being, a mum with people that loved her. She did good stuff and she made mistakes. Like most of us. Not a waste of space, just someone who died too young.
Yes - you are, and they were, right. It was a nasty comment. Mea culpa.
I came to realise that every time we recognise something human in creatures, we are also recognising something creaturely in ourselves. That is central to the rejection of human supremacism as the pernicious doctrine it is.
Robert Macfarlane

Rhiannon

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Re: It was twenty years ago....
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2017, 09:59:12 AM »
Yes - you are, and they were, right. It was a nasty comment. Mea culpa.

Ok. Fair enough.  :)