Author Topic: Segregated Party  (Read 7149 times)

Gabriella

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #75 on: October 03, 2017, 04:54:23 PM »
Why dont you go there regularly ?
Lack of room - the men's section is already overflowing outside and into the car park during the congregational prayers on Festival days or Fridays. There are plans to rebuild the mosque to have a bigger capacity and better sound systems. Plus mosques are generally segregated and for me the irritation of chatting women is preferable to feeling uncomfortable in an already over-crowded men's section.
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Shaker

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #76 on: October 03, 2017, 05:03:54 PM »
Plus mosques are generally segregated
Probably not a lot of your vaunted individual choice and personal freedom involved, then.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 05:06:58 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Gabriella

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #77 on: October 03, 2017, 05:15:50 PM »
Probably not a lot of your vaunted individual choice and personal freedom involved, then.
Yes - they're a bit like Outrider and you at this mosque i.e. wanting to enforce their rules and barbarically override other people's personal freedoms. Makes you wonder why those people freely choose to turn up at this particular mosque if they all vehemently disagree with the idea of segregation.
“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Shaker

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #78 on: October 03, 2017, 05:20:23 PM »
Yes - they're a bit like Outrider and you at this mosque i.e. wanting to enforce their rules and barbarically
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

It's not difficult to find examples of actual barbarism.

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Makes you wonder why those people freely choose to turn up at this particular mosque if they all vehemently disagree with the idea of segregation.
The fact that they're at a mosque in the first instance suggests that they don't.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Outrider

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #79 on: October 03, 2017, 05:21:37 PM »
Yes - they're a bit like Outrider and you at this mosque i.e. wanting to enforce their rules and barbarically override other people's personal freedoms.

Who is it that you think is falling for that crap?

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Makes you wonder why those people freely choose to turn up at this particular mosque if they all vehemently disagree with the idea of segregation.

No, it really doesn't, the impact of cultural and social pressures and their facility to maintain religious observance in the face of reality is fairly well-documented.

O.
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Gabriella

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #80 on: October 03, 2017, 05:36:25 PM »
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Yes - it's fun - Outrider was having fun with it earlier on in relation to a segregated charity gala.


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The fact that they're at a mosque in the first instance suggests that they don't.
Yes but the question is whether you and Outrider know what's best for them and think yourselves qualified to over-ride their personal choices and freedoms.
“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Walter

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #81 on: October 03, 2017, 05:40:21 PM »
I'm not angry, but you're most welcome to believe I am if it helps you feel better about your inability to perform on here.....love
perhaps I should remind you, the system in which you believe is viewed as ridiculous , stupid , uneducated , wrong , dangerous, made up, .Someone flew to the moon on a winged horse, ffs .
Lets see how you preform, reality is not your strong point is it?

Gabriella

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #82 on: October 03, 2017, 05:44:58 PM »
Who is it that you think is falling for that crap?
. You should ask yourself the same question when you come out with your crap masquerading as protecting personal freedom.

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No, it really doesn't, the impact of cultural and social pressures and their facility to maintain religious observance in the face of reality is fairly well-documented.

O.
Feel free to link to the documentation on the impact of voluntarily attending a segregated ticketed charity gala or a place of worship - I'll take a look and get back to you.  Out of interest are you going to balance those reports with links to the well-documented impact of non-segregation - women feeling intimidated, inhibited or women being sexually assaulted?
“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Gabriella

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #83 on: October 03, 2017, 05:47:40 PM »
perhaps I should remind you, the system in which you believe is viewed as ridiculous , stupid , uneducated , wrong , dangerous, made up, .Someone flew to the moon on a winged horse, ffs .
Lets see how you preform, reality is not your strong point is it?
Start a new thread instead of derailing this one. By the way, I don't believe someone flew to the moon on a winged horse. There are lots of different beliefs in religions - your inability to comprehend that and your tendency to generalise is an example of your inability to perform...love. Aww - it's sweet though - your inability to perform - makes you seem all soft and vulnerable.
“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Walter

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #84 on: October 03, 2017, 06:01:47 PM »
Start a new thread instead of derailing this one. By the way, I don't believe someone flew to the moon on a winged horse. There are lots of different beliefs in religions - your inability to comprehend that and your tendency to generalise is an example of your inability to perform...love. Aww - it's sweet though - your inability to perform - makes you seem all soft and vulnerable.
I doubt the mosque knows you say theses things . Being religious  is a choice . Choose wisely , you could be FREE.

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #85 on: October 03, 2017, 06:07:17 PM »
Lack of room - the men's section is already overflowing outside and into the car park during the congregational prayers on Festival days or Fridays. There are plans to rebuild the mosque to have a bigger capacity and better sound systems. Plus mosques are generally segregated and for me the irritation of chatting women is preferable to feeling uncomfortable in an already over-crowded men's section.
Is there no control over the chattering women?
Is there not an process that could be followed wherein they could be politely reminded that there are some people there who actually want to participate in the event rather than chatter?
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

Gabriella

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #86 on: October 05, 2017, 02:39:33 PM »
Is there no control over the chattering women?
Is there not an process that could be followed wherein they could be politely reminded that there are some people there who actually want to participate in the event rather than chatter?
Not really. There are a couple of women in high vis jackets who try to keep people quiet but you can't force people to do anything, and they don't want to kick people out or call the police, and there are little kids present as well, so they can be a bit noisy.

It's a cultural thing I guess - people are used to being quiet in certain environments and unfortunately unlike in a library or in a lecture, for some reason the women who talk think it is ok to talk during the sermon, whereas the men don't. Maybe the women who talk don't spend a lot of time in libraries or at lectures. Some/ many women do understand the concept of keeping quiet during a sermon.
“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Gabriella

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #87 on: October 05, 2017, 02:57:07 PM »
I doubt the mosque knows you say theses things .
Why do you doubt it? What do you imagine the mosque would do if they knew - prevent me from entering the mosque because I don't agree with a particular traditional story that is not even in the Quran?

They don't check who comes into the mosque - anyone can walk in. Lots of non.Muslims visit, including from a local school when they are learning about Islam in R.E.


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Being religious  is a choice . Choose wisely , you could be FREE.
Think you are over-egging this freedom concept. I was an atheist - it was ok/ fun. Nothing particularly special or different. And what do you mean by "choose wisely"? What do you want me to choose?
“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #88 on: October 07, 2017, 04:29:31 PM »
Not really. There are a couple of women in high vis jackets who try to keep people quiet but you can't force people to do anything, and they don't want to kick people out or call the police, and there are little kids present as well, so they can be a bit noisy.

It's a cultural thing I guess - people are used to being quiet in certain environments and unfortunately unlike in a library or in a lecture, for some reason the women who talk think it is ok to talk during the sermon, whereas the men don't. Maybe the women who talk don't spend a lot of time in libraries or at lectures. Some/ many women do understand the concept of keeping quiet during a sermon.

I guess you will just have to get there early enough to get a space in the mens section then?
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

trippymonkey

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #89 on: October 09, 2017, 10:14:57 PM »
They don't check who comes into the mosque - anyone can walk in. Lots of non.Muslims visit, including from a local school when they are learning about Islam in R.E.

Which version of Islam is this then - Shia - Sunni - Wahhbai ???? To name but 3 !?!!?

Robbie

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #90 on: October 09, 2017, 11:08:04 PM »
Does sexual segregation automatically equal inequality? It's not usual in 'our' society but it happens, Orthodox Jews for example, and Jewish women rule the roost!  Surely if the Muslim women in this instance felt they were being treated as second class, they wouldn't have gone to the 'do'. I'm just wondering if we are reading more into it than there is, only thoughts, but there are sections of our society who do things differently to the mainstream and we can't automatically condemn differences because we may not understand.
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Gabriella

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #91 on: October 10, 2017, 03:10:10 PM »

I guess you will just have to get there early enough to get a space in the mens section then?
Nah - being caught in a crush of men is not my idea of fun. I experienced it on Hajj going around the Kaaba and was light-headed when I got out of the crush - I actually thought there was a chance I could die in that crush. I prefer the segregation approach - I feel more comfortable.
“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Shaker

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #92 on: October 14, 2017, 12:19:37 AM »
The stupidity, needless to say, continues: http://tinyurl.com/y7ylznct

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An Islamic faith school's policy of segregating boys and girls is unlawful sex discrimination, a court has ruled.

The case was heard at the Court of Appeal as Ofsted challenged a High Court ruling clearing the Al-Hijrah school in Birmingham of discrimination.

Ofsted's lawyers argued the segregation left girls "unprepared for life in modern Britain" [...]

The three appeal judges heard boys and girls, aged four to 16, attend the Birmingham City Council-maintained Al-Hijrah school, in Bordesley Green.

But from Year Five, boys and girls are completely separated for lessons, breaks, school trips and school clubs [...]

Speaking after the Court of Appeal ruling Amanda Spielman, Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Schools, said educational institutions should never treat pupils less favourably because of their sex.

"The school is teaching boys and girls entirely separately, making them walk down separate corridors, and keeping them apart at all times," she said.

"This is discrimination and is wrong. It places these boys and girls at a disadvantage for life beyond the classroom and the workplace, and fails to prepare them for life in modern Britain," she said.

Unfortunately a come-one-come-all immigration policy for decades has allowed these repellent belief systems into the country and a spineless multiculturalism has allowed the toxin to flourish. How much can realistically be done about it now is uncertain. Very little, would be my guess.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 12:26:27 AM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Gabriella

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #93 on: October 16, 2017, 10:24:07 AM »
Some of the pupils in that school stated that they would like to interact with pupils of the other sex, and since this was a co-ed school, it was decided by the court that pupils who wanted to interact were being discriminated against because they were not having the opportunity to learn to interact.

This ruling would not apply to a single sex school. And given the thread on the other board about children sexually assaulting children in co-ed schools in our current sexualised culture, I can see why it's unlikely that segregated schools will be phased out for those parents who want them. And I can also see why segregated events might appeal to some people, if they want the peace of mind segregation gives them.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Segregated Party
« Reply #94 on: December 02, 2017, 09:03:38 AM »
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Ofsted's lawyers argued the segregation left girls "unprepared for life in modern Britain" [...]

May I make a contribution to this discussion from a rather different perspective and tradition and time?

I was born during WW2 and grew up in the East Midlands in a Roman Catholic working-class family. Apart from my mother, my family was all male.

My primary school was the local RC primary school. In this school boys and girls were treated differently - girls were protected, boys were treated as if they were inherently problematic (remember the old rhyme - sugar and spice and all things nice .... slugs and snails and puppy dogs' tails?) One event I recall was a sudden rainstorm shortly before the afternoon session began. The girls were let into the school, the boys left outside in the playground. This was typical of the difference in treatment.

The messages from the pulpit - as far as a growing boy could deduce - contrasted the virtues of girls with the vices of boys. And when I became an adolescent I noted in these messages an implication that the virtues of young women were special and should be respected. By this time I had moved to the boys' grammar school and had little day-to-day contact with girls. My school had lessons on Saturday mornings and compulsory attendance at sporting fixtures on Saturday afternoons meant that weekends were girl contact free as well.

I left school having had little contact with girls, having little reliable information about the motivations, interests and behaviour of young women. It took me a considerable time to acquire the self-confidence to show an interest in close friendships with girls. I had been conditioned to regard my (hetero)sexuality with caution and to respect virginity. In retrospect, the period of my life which should have been an adventure was sterile, painful and empty.

The prevention of normal socialisation of boys and girls by means of physical, moral and educational segregation should be seen as totally unacceptable. And allowing this segregation to be driven by philosophical values derived from fairy and folk tales from another millennium is unforgivable.
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