A shocking story!

[Roses]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/07/german-couple-convicted-rape-selling-young-son-sex-dark-web/

A truly shocking story. They should have been put away for life. 

[Rhiannon]

I'm not really sure what you expect anyone to say, LR. It's an incredibly distressing story, but I don't see why anyone would want to discuss it.

[Roses]

It is creating a lot of discussion on other forums!

[Rhiannon]

You must hang out in some seriously weird places then.

[Roses]

You must hang out in some seriously weird places then.

What are you on about? Surely the fact these paedos got such a light sentence is worth discussing? 

[Rhiannon]

What are you on about? Surely the fact these paedos got such a light sentence is worth discussing?

Why? What will it change?

Frankly this reminds me of those magazines that people buy in supermarkets with headlines like "Dad raped me while mum was shagging her boyfriend' or some such. Horrible, distressing stories that nobody in their right minds would want to dwell on.

[Roses]

Why? What will it change?

Frankly this reminds me of those magazines that people buy in supermarkets with headlines like "Dad raped me while mum was shagging her boyfriend' or some such. Horrible, distressing stories that nobody in their right minds would want to dwell on.

We discuss lots of things on this forum, I don't see the point you are making, unless it is distressing you for personal reasons?

[Nearly Sane]

What are you on about? Surely the fact these paedos got such a light sentence is worth discussing?

Presenting your opinion as fact.

[Rhiannon]

We discuss lots of things on this forum, I don't see the point you are making, unless it is distressing you for personal reasons?

Find it rather bizarre that only those who have a 'personal reason' should find this story distressing, or not want to discuss it.

Why on earth anyone outside of the judicial or child protection system would want to dwell on this is beyond me.

[ippy]

When you think you've heard most of the disgusting things like this there always seems to be something else that manages to be even more disgusting than the last event you've had the misfortune to hear about, I'm glad I'm not involved with the sorting out of this lot, the poor police, lawyers, social services etc., they have my sympathy.

ippy.
 

[jeremyp]

What are you on about? Surely the fact these paedos got such a light sentence is worth discussing?

Did you read to the end of the story? The judge is of the opinion that the woman can be rehabilitated hence the twelve year sentence. The man also got a twelve year sentence but only because he shopped everybody else. The judge said that he will always be a danger, so after his sentence is completed, he wil be held in preventative detention for the rest of his life.

[Roses]

As paedophiles are such a danger to the mental and physical health of their victims, I am of the opinion that no one convicted of that crime should ever be freed to offend again. Attempts to cure them haven't been successful. There was one project set up expressly for that purpose, but had to admit failure.

[Harrowby Hall]

As paedophiles are such a danger to the mental and physical health of their victims, I am of the opinion that no one convicted of that crime should ever be freed to offend again. Attempts to cure them haven't been successful. There was one project set up expressly for that purpose, but had to admit failure.

LR.

This has happened in a different jurisdiction to the one with which you are familiar. What do you know about the effectiveness and success rate of the German justice system in rehabilitation? It would appear that in the Netherlands, recidivism is very, very low by UK standards and this comes from the willingness of the state to use the incarceration period as one in which various forms of training, education and therapy are used to prepare convicted criminals for a more productive life following release.

My impression is that prison sentences in many European countries do not match the pattern with which we are familiar. Mercifully, the UK system does not quite follow the US practice of awarding very long sentences, using prisons as warehouses for convicted criminals. But at the same time I do get the impression in the UK rehabilitation is not a priority.

How do you know that - with appropriate management - paedophile convicted criminals cannot be successfully returned to the community?

[Rhiannon]

Just to note to LR that 'cure' and 'rehabilitation' are not the same thing.

[Rhiannon]

My impression is that prison sentences in many European countries do not match the pattern with which we are familiar.

Indeed. There have been cases in Italy and Spain where rape convictions either haven't happened or have been overturned or sentences reduced because the victim didn't behave enough like a victim.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/26/protests-spain-five-men-cleared-of-teenagers-gang-rape-pamplona

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/italy-rape-resentencing-victim-drank-alcohol_us_5b4f4c49e4b0fd5c73c122ff

[Roses]

Just to note to LR that 'cure' and 'rehabilitation' are not the same thing.

I very much doubt sex offenders can be rehabilitated, you could never trust them to be around children again, imo.

[ippy]

I very much doubt sex offenders can be rehabilitated, you could never trust them to be around children again, imo.

So I'm told these child abusers really don't think there's anything wrong with the things they do or want to do, I'm sure this is so but I still think it's so weird and have difficulty getting my head around it although I'm equally sure the experts must know what they're talking about.

Regards ippy

[Roses]

So I'm told these child abusers really don't think there's anything wrong with the things they do or want to do, I'm sure this is so but I still think it's so weird and have difficulty getting my head around it although I'm equally sure the experts must know what they're talking about.

Regards ippy

So called experts don't always get it right. I remember reading about a child sex offender who was supposedly 'rehabilitated', only to offend again.    And of course Jon Venables was released after intensive 'rehabilitation', but is now locked up again, because of all the child porn he had stashed on his computer!   

[ippy]

So called experts don't always get it right. I remember reading about a child sex offender who was supposedly 'rehabilitated', only to offend again.    And of course Jon Venables was released after intensive 'rehabilitation', but is now locked up again, because of all the child porn he had stashed on his computer!   

As it happens the major percentage of them can't be turned/rehabilitated either so they tell me, the experts would be agreeing with you on that L R.

How on earth they somehow reason out that there's nothing wrong with their deeds I'll never manage to work that one out?

Regards ippy

[Roses]

As it happens the major percentage of them can't be turned/rehabilitated either so they tell me, the experts would be agreeing with you on that L R.

How on earth they somehow reason out that there's nothing wrong with their deeds I'll never manage to work that one out?

Regards ippy

I have mentioned before about the broadcast in the 80s by the Paedophile Information Exchange on BBC Radio 4, not long before it was a banned organisation. They thought they had a right to have sex with children, and even stated it was a child's right to have sex with them. How sick and deluded can you get?

[jeremyp]

As paedophiles are such a danger to the mental and physical health of their victims, I am of the opinion that no one convicted of that crime should ever be freed to offend again. Attempts to cure them haven't been successful. There was one project set up expressly for that purpose, but had to admit failure.

Well, I think I’ll defer to the judge in the case, who presumably has access to all the psychiatric reports on these people, unlike you. Note that he agrees with you in the case of the man. He doesn’t agree with you in respect of the woman, but I’m sure he has good reason to believe she will not be a danger when she is released.

[Roses]

Well, I think I’ll defer to the judge in the case, who presumably has access to all the psychiatric reports on these people, unlike you. Note that he agrees with you in the case of the man. He doesn’t agree with you in respect of the woman, but I’m sure he has good reason to believe she will not be a danger when she is released.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm!

[jeremyp]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm!

Why should I believe you over the judge?

[Roses]

Why should I believe you over the judge?

And what if the judge is wrong?

[Rhiannon]

And what if the judge is wrong?

It won't be the judge that is wrong, it'll be the psych who assessed the individuals. No idea how thorough they are in the German criminal courts but if they are like some that happen in the UK courts then you are right to be sceptical; that said, I'm aware of the problem affecting the family court here and it may be that criminal court are more rigorous.