Author Topic: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.  (Read 676 times)

Phyllis Tyne

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Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« on: January 14, 2019, 07:52:16 AM »
I actually am not sure what the statement true for me but not anyone else means".
But for those who do a) can you tell us and b) tell us if atheism is just a "true for me" thing.

Littleroses

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2019, 08:35:31 AM »
No one can say with certainty no god exists. It think it is improbable that if there is such an external entity it is anything like the ones humans have created.
“In times of plenty, hold in the store cupboard of your heart sweet moments of love, joy and wonder: precious memories to release in days of want.” RJG

Phyllis Tyne

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2019, 08:39:27 AM »
No one can say with certainty no god exists. It think it is improbable that if there is such an external entity it is anything like the ones humans have created.
Thanks for your reply
And yet people are happy to call themselves atheists so is that a "true for me position" would you say?

Littleroses

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2019, 09:10:44 AM »
Thanks for your reply
And yet people are happy to call themselves atheists so is that a "true for me position" would you say?


My husband is a convinced atheist. As I have mentioned before he claims to have had some sort of experience whilst in a coma, which convinced him beyond all doubt that no god or afterlife exists. I don't give his 'experience' anymore credence than I do of those who claim the opposite, and god came through for them.
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BeRational

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2019, 09:59:06 AM »
I actually am not sure what the statement true for me but not anyone else means".
But for those who do a) can you tell us and b) tell us if atheism is just a "true for me" thing.

It is not a claim.

It is a rejection of the claim that gods exist, because they have not met the burden of proof.

Atheism is the default position until you accept the theistic claims.
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Phyllis Tyne

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2019, 10:54:14 AM »
It is not a claim.

It is a rejection of the claim that gods exist, because they have not met the burden of proof.

Atheism is the default position until you accept the theistic claims.

How does that not imply a naturalistic universe?

Since you are saying the universe or more properly existence Has nothing like a god in
It?

Phyllis Tyne

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2019, 10:58:43 AM »

My husband is a convinced atheist. As I have mentioned before he claims to have had some sort of experience whilst in a coma, which convinced him beyond all doubt that no god or afterlife exists. I don't give his 'experience' anymore credence
If you describe your self as an atheist then how do you say you are giving it less credence.
That question needn't be rhetorical.

BeRational

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2019, 11:00:11 AM »
How does that not imply a naturalistic universe?

Since you are saying the universe or more properly existence Has nothing like a god in
It?

Atheists do not say that there is no god.
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Phyllis Tyne

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2019, 11:02:39 AM »
Atheists do not say that there is no god.
Then you are suggesting thatLittleroses husband isn't an atheist? He sounds profoundly atheist to me

BeRational

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2019, 11:23:03 AM »
Then you are suggesting thatLittleroses husband isn't an atheist? He sounds profoundly atheist to me

If someone says there is no god, then they are an atheist, but they then have the burden of proof.

I do not believe the is a god, and I do not believe there is not god
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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2019, 11:24:16 AM »
Feeding time!
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Arthur C. Clarke

Steve H

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2019, 11:25:30 AM »
If someone says there is no god, then they are an atheist, but they then have the burden of proof.

I do not believe the is a god, and I do not believe there is not god
That makes absolutely no sense.
There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.
George Orwell.

BeRational

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2019, 11:27:39 AM »
That makes absolutely no sense.

My lawn has either and even or odd number of blades of grass.

Do you believe the number is even?

If not does that mean you believe it is odd?

The correct response if to accept that I do not know, and have no reason to believe either.

Does this make sense now?
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Steve H

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2019, 11:33:46 AM »
My lawn has either and even or odd number of blades of grass.

Do you believe the number is even?

If not does that mean you believe it is odd?

The correct response if to accept that I do not know, and have no reason to believe either.

Does this make sense now?
No. The number of blades of grass is unknowable, and there are no arguments one way or the other. There are arguments for and against God, and whether you believe in God's existance (not know) depends on which you find persuasive.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 11:41:48 AM by Genial Harry Grout »
There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.
George Orwell.

Steve H

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2019, 11:40:58 AM »
I've just done a google in the hope of discovering that grass blades always grow in pairs, so that I could go ner-ner-na-ner-ner at you, but it appears not to be the case. Damn. >:(
There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.
George Orwell.

Gordon

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2019, 11:43:51 AM »
No. The number of blades of grass is unknowable, and there are no arguments one way or the other.

It is knowable: you could count them all, that you don't know prior to counting doesn't mean the number of blades of grass can never be known (if you could be bothered that is).
 
Quote
There are arguments for and against God, and whether you believe in God's existance (not know depends on which you find persuasive.

That isn't the point. Most atheists are agnostic atheists: they don't claim as an item of knowledge that there is no god but that there are no good reasons to think so. On the other hand a gnostic theist would say that they know (as an item of knowledge) that there is no god, and you'd be entitled to ask them to demonstrate their claim that there is no god.

Phyllis Tyne

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2019, 11:52:56 AM »
It is knowable: you could count them all, that you don't know prior to counting doesn't mean the number of blades of grass can never be known (if you could be bothered that is).
 
That isn't the point. Most atheists are agnostic atheists: they don't claim as an item of knowledge that there is no god but that there are no good reasons to think so. On the other hand a gnostic theist would say that they know (as an item of knowledge) that there is no god, and you'd be entitled to ask them to demonstrate their claim that there is no god.
How are you distinguishing " good reason" from "reason".

Gordon

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2019, 11:57:19 AM »
How are you distinguishing " good reason" from "reason".

'Good' reasons would involve reasoning that on review aren't fallacious or incoherent.

Phyllis Tyne

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2019, 12:00:50 PM »
'Good' reasons would involve reasoning that on review aren't fallacious or incoherent.
Can you Give an example relevant to this forum.

Gordon

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2019, 12:10:06 PM »
Can you Give an example relevant to this forum.

Nope: you know what they are anyway, Vlad - after all they've been mentioned often enough (unless you haven't been paying attention).
 

Phyllis Tyne

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2019, 12:12:50 PM »
Nope: you know what they are anyway, Vlad - after all they've been mentioned often enough (unless you haven't been paying attention).
I think you have misread me I asked for an example of good reasoning pertinent to this forum.

Can you explain the what is unreasonable about that request?

Gordon

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2019, 12:19:32 PM »
I think you have misread me I asked for an example of good reasoning pertinent to this forum.

Can you explain the what is unreasonable about that request?

The context of my 'no good reasons', which you reacted to, was in relation to arguments offered in support of theism (the usual suspects) - but you know this already, Vlad, so your attempt to change the context of my remark is a big fail for you.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2019, 12:36:36 PM »
Gordon,

Quote
Nope: you know what they are anyway, Vlad - after all they've been mentioned often enough (unless you haven't been paying attention).

Quite. He knows perfectly well (or has no excuse for not knowing given how often it’s been explained to him) that logic is objectively verifiable – an argument is logically sound or it’s logically false. He also knows that atheism entails only finding arguments made for “god” to be logically false, for exactly the same reasons he’d find them to be logically false too if they were used to argue for something else.

If someone believes sincerely that there is a god (or anything else with no validating logic) that’s a subjective truth just for him, but that’s all it is.

What Vlad hopes to get from this is anyone’s guess – attention presumably – but it just pollutes this mb.
“One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion. So now people assume that religion and morality have a necessary connection. But the basis of morality is really very simple and doesn't require religion at all.”

Arthur C. Clarke

BeRational

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2019, 01:25:03 PM »
No. The number of blades of grass is unknowable, and there are no arguments one way or the other. There are arguments for and against God, and whether you believe in God's existance (not know) depends on which you find persuasive.

Can you count?
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Phyllis Tyne

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Re: Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2019, 03:02:16 PM »
Gordon,

Quite. He knows perfectly well (or has no excuse for not knowing given how often it’s been explained to him) that logic is objectively verifiable – an argument is logically sound or it’s logically false. He also knows that atheism entails only finding arguments made for “god” to be logically false, for exactly the same reasons he’d find them to be logically false too if they were used to argue for something else.

If someone believes sincerely that there is a god (or anything else with no validating logic) that’s a subjective truth just for him, but that’s all it is.

What Vlad hopes to get from this is anyone’s guess – attention presumably – but it just pollutes this mb.
Like the universe Hillside is infintely regressing his refutations of the reasons for theism. His previous post is how the refutations are in a previous post and this has gone on and on hence his inability to produce the refutations.