Author Topic: Shamima Begum  (Read 18646 times)

Harrowby Hall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5060
Shamima Begum
« on: February 14, 2019, 02:31:04 PM »
Four years ago, three 15 year old girls flew to Turkey and crossed the border into IS-held territory in Syria. They were British Muslims who had been radicalised on line. Within a few weeks of their arrival, they were married and began their task of bringing new soldiers into the world.

There was considerable publicity about their action at the time. Their parents knew nothing of their intention.

One of these girls, now 19, wants to return to Britain to give birth to her third child - her earlier children had died from malnutrition and disease. There is debate about whether or not this should be allowed, after all, she may act as a kind of fifth columnist and engage in clandestine activities herself. Her comments about atrocities that she has been aware of suggest that she is somewhat blase about IS activities.

My view:

1   She was 15 when she left - she was a child.

2   Her intentions were known to the security services and to the police - but her parents were not informed, nor was any attempt made to stop her or to deradicalise her.

3   She is a UK citizen by birth.

Therefore, I consider that she should be allowed to come "home". She should be carefully monitored and subjected to systematic deradicalisation - the state, through its own inaction, bears much responsibility in this instance. I am aware that deradicalisation is not always successful - but an attempt must be made. She is damaged and some attempt must be made to repair her.

What do others think?  Am I being too naive and idealistic?
Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65814
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2019, 02:34:41 PM »
To refuse would seem to me weakness and fear of a 19 year old.

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8115
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2019, 02:40:04 PM »
I don't think she should be let back into the UK. She is obviously still a supporter of ISIS, and stated she was not fazed by the heads in bins of the ones beheaded by that evil mob. She seemed quite proud of herself. >:(
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Robbie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7512
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2019, 02:42:24 PM »
I think she should come home and be looked after by her family. Imagine having three children in such a short space of time, two of which died! Of course the authorities will have to talk to her and listen to what she has to say but she is a very young girl and that must be taken into consideration. All the best to her, poor kid.
True Wit is Nature to Advantage drest,
          What oft was Thought, but ne’er so well Exprest

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8115
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2019, 02:44:02 PM »
I think she should come home and be looked after by her family. Imagine having three children in such a short space of time, two of which died! Of course the authorities will have to talk to her and listen to what she has to say but she is a very young girl and that must be taken into consideration. All the best to her, poor kid.

She is not a kid anymore, and should be treated as a potential danger to this country. >:(
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65814
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2019, 02:49:09 PM »
She is not a kid anymore, and should be treated as a potential danger to this country. >:(
That's surely covered by being monitored, and deradicalisised, and if there is any breach prosecution?

wigginhall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17730
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 02:54:06 PM »
I thought she had the right to return, being British.  Obviously, she would have to be vetted, then again, wasn't she groomed?   Some people are talking about prosecution, what for?

I think 100s of people have come back from Syria, very few prosecuted, why is she different?.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 03:02:27 PM by wigginhall »
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65814
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2019, 03:05:15 PM »
The question here though is surely what efforts should be made to help her return? If as is covered in the article she were to present herself at an airport then there is a right of return. I would be loathe to put anyone in danger in trying to recover her. I don't think that she would be prosecuted unless after her return she acted in breach of whatever conditions were imposed.

wigginhall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17730
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2019, 03:11:41 PM »
It looks like 400 people have returned, about 10% prosecuted, presumably for actual armed combat or serious propaganda.

Just looking at the comments on LBC, including kill her, hand her over to Syrians, and other choice stuff.   
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 03:17:56 PM by wigginhall »
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65814
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2019, 03:26:57 PM »
It looks like 400 people have returned, about 10% prosecuted, presumably for actual armed combat or serious propaganda.

Just looking at the comments on LBC, including kill her, hand her over to Syrians, and other choice stuff.
Below the line, anything goes

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8115
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2019, 03:34:00 PM »
Did people watch the interview with that woman?
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65814
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2019, 03:39:29 PM »
Did people watch the interview with that woman?
Not yet, I've read it. Does watching it make a difference?

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8115
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2019, 04:26:23 PM »
Not yet, I've read it. Does watching it make a difference?


It might, she comes over as so smug!
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

ad_orientem

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8047
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2019, 05:25:27 PM »
Shouldn't be let back, least of all to ponce off the state. Fuck her off! Let her rot there.
Peace through superior firepower.
Do not believe anything until the Kremlin denies it.

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8115
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2019, 05:32:09 PM »
When her baby is born, maybe the child could be sent to the UK if Begum's relatives are prepared to look after her/him.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65814
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2019, 06:01:52 PM »
When her baby is born, maybe the child could be sent to the UK if Begum's relatives are prepared to look after her/him.
On what legal grounds are you excluding her citizenship?

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65814
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2019, 06:04:00 PM »

It might, she comes over as so smug!
I don't see that as a relevant factor. I think you would be on stronger ground on lack of repentance but it has to be for something criminal to apply.

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8115
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2019, 06:16:52 PM »
I don't see that as a relevant factor. I think you would be on stronger ground on lack of repentance but it has to be for something criminal to apply.


She said she didn't regret joining ISIS.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65814
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2019, 06:25:42 PM »

She said she didn't regret joining ISIS.
Yes, I know. To have any effect then she would need to be charged with a crime and her lack of regret may well count against her. Sounding smug isn't as yet a crime. Something for which I am truly thankful.

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8115
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2019, 06:32:49 PM »
Yes, I know. To have any effect then she would need to be charged with a crime and her lack of regret may well count against her. Sounding smug isn't as yet a crime. Something for which I am truly thankful.


She was smug about her lack of regret.

We will have to wait and see what the powers that be decide. However, if she comes back and does something dreadful in the name is ISIS all hell with break loose.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65814
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2019, 06:35:44 PM »

She was smug about her lack of regret.

We will have to wait and see what the powers that be decide. However, if she comes back and does something dreadful in the name is ISIS all hell with break loose.

Smugness isn't a legal concept.

And your second paragraph sounds Trumpesque

Roses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8115
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2019, 06:41:02 PM »
Smugness isn't a legal concept.

And your second paragraph sounds Trumpesque


Oh thanks so much! ::)
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

SusanDoris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8265
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2019, 06:46:43 PM »

Oh thanks so much! ::)
during her interview, did she make any mention of her husband/father of her children or his responsibility for anything?
The Most Honourable Sister of Titular Indecision.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65814
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2019, 06:50:40 PM »
during her interview, did she make any mention of her husband/father of her children or his responsibility for anything?
He wouldn't be allowed in after Brexit. He's Dutch.

wigginhall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17730
Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2019, 06:54:44 PM »
Doubtful if she would be charged with a crime, most returnees are just questioned, and let in.  I wonder if she has made it worse by her comments, now the right wing will be frothing at the mouth.
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!