Andre Previn dead

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

And I hear Eric Morecambe


https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2019/02/28/517960940/andre-previn-musical-polymath-has-died-at-age-89

It's always great when someone really talented goes out of their way to publicly show they also have a sense of humour and a lack of pomposity. Makes them seem so much more approachable and human. Nice tribute to Andre Previn, the man, rather than just to his musical talent.

[ProfessorDavey]

Oh my god! Alert interinterpol, there's a UK based messageboard that had an post of Andrew Preview's death that wasn't like an obituary in the New York Times. Those who ride in the armour of self regard must stop this 'inappropriate' behaviour.

Do you actually have any comment to make about the great man's remarkable musical achievements extending over an astonishing 8 decades?

[jeremyp]

I'm sorry Jeremy but I can't agree with you and you comment is amazingly UK-centric and parochial.

Andre Previn was a global star of the music world. While most of his career was spent in the USA, he held major positions on 3 continents and was a star in every continent. M&W, by contrast never made it beyond the UK. Indeed Previn had won 4 Oscars by the time M&W were making their failed attempt to break America in the mid 60s.

So it might be true that in the UK 'that sketch is the only frame of reference most people have for who Preview was'.

But in Germany, the country of his brith - nope
In the US, the country of his residence and most of his work in Hollywood and various orchestras - nope
In Norway where he was director of the Oslo Philharmonic - nope
In Japan where he was director of the NHK Symphony Orchestra - nope
etc, etc

Indeed I suspect the majority of people in those countries will never have heard of M&W, never seen that sketch and if they had the point of reference (the person they knew) would be Previn introducing them to the unknowns of M&W.

That’s all very nice and I’m sure the coverage of his death in those countries didn’t mention Morcambe and Wise. However, British coverage pretty much has to.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Do you actually have any comment to make about the great man's remarkable musical achievements extending over an astonishing 8 decades?

For all we know the M&W sketch, showing his sense of humour, may be something that his family think of fondly.  Why belittle and disrespect Andrè Previn by pretending he was nothing more than his musical achievements? He is not a commodity and no one here has any proprietary rights to how he is remembered.

His sense of humour seems to have been important to him since he went public with it so why disrespect the man now he is dead by trying to start an argument on a thread about him that, among other things, celebrates his sense of humour.

[Gordon]

From what I've read in the various obituaries he enjoyed doing M&W: from Wiki.

Previn himself recalled in 2005 that people in Britain still recall the sketch years later: "Taxi drivers still call me Mr Preview".[1] He later said he was happy that the sketch meant as much to everyone else as it did to him....

[Aruntraveller]

I would agree with that Gabriella. Furthermore it is well documented that he had quite a good sense of humour and a very quick, fierce intelligence, so it is also equally possible that he realised the huge reach that M&W had in the UK and used it partially as a way of making classical music more "human" as it did have, and to a certain extent still retains, an undeserved reputation for stuffiness.

It may have been an attempt at trying to ensure accessibility to classical music.

Or he just liked a good laugh.

Either way it seems entirely appropriate that M&W have been mentioned.

[ProfessorDavey]

That’s all very nice and I’m sure the coverage of his death in those countries didn’t mention Morcambe and Wise. However, British coverage pretty much has to.

So you accept that your earlier comment:

'I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but for the majority of people, that appearance on the Morcambe and Wise Show is the defining moment of Preview's career.'

Is complete non-sense unless you adopt a totally UK-centric view which is completely inappropriate for a German born, US resident who was a global star.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

So you accept that your earlier comment:

'I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but for the majority of people, that appearance on the Morcambe and Wise Show is the defining moment of Preview's career.'

Is complete non-sense unless you adopt a totally UK-centric view which is completely inappropriate for a German born, US resident who was a global star.

This is a UK message board and most of the posters who post here would have been aware of the M&W clip and if the man himself was happy with it, perhaps you would be better off posting on a US message board about your thoughts on the matter rather than trying to spoil this thread.

[ProfessorDavey]

This is a UK message board and most of the posters who post here would have been aware of the M&W clip and if the man himself was happy with it, perhaps you would be better off posting on a US message board about your thoughts on the matter rather than trying to spoil this thread.

How am I trying to spoil this thread - I'm trying to get people to focus on Previn's actually 8 decade career, rather than on a 5 minute comedy sketch (which wasn't even new), which seems to be the only thing some people on this thread seem interested in.

Actually I'm not convinced Previn was actually too enamoured with the whole episode - he was decidedly grumpy about it in a relatively recent UK interview, and apparently his most recent wife wasn't even aware of it until Previn had to explain to her why a taxi driver in the UK was calling him Mr Preview, which understandably bemused her.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

How am I trying to spoil this thread - I'm trying to get people to focus on Previn's actually 8 decade career, rather than on a 5 minute comedy sketch (which wasn't even new), which seems to be the only thing some people on this thread seem interested in.

Actually I'm not convinced Previn was actually too enamoured with the whole episode - he was decidedly grumpy about it in a relatively recent UK interview, and apparently his most recent wife wasn't even aware of it until Previn had to explain to her why a taxi driver in the UK was calling him Mr Preview, which understandably bemused her.

Maybe try a different approach rather than bicker over someone else's post. Looking for an argument on a thread about a dead man who freely chose to go on M&W doesn't seem very respectful and seems to belittle him. Presumably you are not suggesting that he was too incompetent to make an informed decision about the pros and cons of celebrity from appearing on a popular comedy show that would possibly reach an audience of almost half the UK population at the time? From the way he dressed, his choice of wife, his astute self-promotion of his musical talent - he seemed interested in popular culture. That's part of who he was and so it seems reasonable to celebrate that part of him as that meant classical music reached a wider audience.

If your English is any good you should be able to do what Trent did - move people with his writing about what he felt was important to him about the musically-gifted Mr Preview.

[ProfessorDavey]

Maybe try a different approach rather than bicker over someone else's post. Looking for an argument on a thread about a dead man who freely chose to go on M&W doesn't seem very respectful and seems to belittle him. Presumably you are not suggesting that he was too incompetent to make an informed decision about the pros and cons of celebrity from appearing on a popular comedy show that would possibly reach an audience of almost half the UK population at the time?

I have no doubt it was mutually beneficial to all involved, but remember Previn and the LSO were under contract with the BBC for Andre Previn's Music Night, as of course were M&W. The BBC will have put them together as part of their contractual arrangements. Previn made a number of appearances on M&W but only during the period when he was separately under contract with the BBC - never before and never afterwards.

If your English is any good you should be able to do what Trent did - move people with his writing about what he felt was important to him about the musically-gifted Mr Preview.

I'll leave it to others to expand on his remarkable 8 decade career (perhaps even 9 decades as he was improvising on piano for silent films in the late 1930s) from highly respected obits, from around the globe:

https://www.latimes.com/local/obituaries/la-me-andre-previn-composer-dead-20190228-story.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/01/arts/music/andre-previn-dead.html?module=inline
https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/andre-previn-oscarwinning-composer-has-died-at-89-20190301-h1buze.html
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/feb/28/andre-previn-obituary
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/andre-previn-obituary-death-oscar-composer-conductor-dead-a8803221.html

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I have no doubt it was mutually beneficial to all involved, but remember Previn and the LSO were under contract with the BBC for Andre Previn's Music Night, as of course were M&W. The BBC will have put them together as part of their contractual arrangements. Previn made a number of appearances on M&W but only during the period when he was separately under contract with the BBC - never before and never afterwards.

Are you implying that Previn appeared on M&W because he was contractually obliged to by the BBC and he himself didn't want to do it? Because on the show "Andre Previn at the BBC" he actually said he was a great fan of M&W and tried not to miss their shows, and when the Head of BBC2 asked him if he would ever do something as outrageous as being on their show, he said "Like a shot". And despite his busy schedule - he was on tour in America - as soon as he landed back in Britain he went to the studio to do the M&W show, and learned the script in the cab on the way from the airport. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06gxxxh/andre-previn-at-the-bbc

I'll leave it to others to expand on his remarkable 8 decade career (perhaps even 9 decades as he was improvising on piano for silent films in the late 1930s) from highly respected obits, from around the globe:

https://www.latimes.com/local/obituaries/la-me-andre-previn-composer-dead-20190228-story.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/01/arts/music/andre-previn-dead.html?module=inline
https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/andre-previn-oscarwinning-composer-has-died-at-89-20190301-h1buze.html
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/feb/28/andre-previn-obituary
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/andre-previn-obituary-death-oscar-composer-conductor-dead-a8803221.html

Ok.

[jeremyp]

So you accept that your earlier comment:

'I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but for the majority of people, that appearance on the Morcambe and Wise Show is the defining moment of Preview's career.'

Is complete non-sense unless you adopt a totally UK-centric view which is completely inappropriate for a German born, US resident who was a global star.

I reckon that if you polled the entire World’s population on what they associate with André Previn, the vast majority will never have heard of him. Maybe some millions will have some idea that he was an orchestra conductor but not be able to name any significant achievement of his and they might outnumber the people - mainly from the UK - who will say “he was the one in the right notes in the wrong order sketch”. I’d be quite sure that this last group would outnumber the people who could name a specific achievement of his that isn’t appearing on Morcambe and Wise.

[jeremyp]

How am I trying to spoil this thread - I'm trying to get people to focus on Previn's actually 8 decade career, rather than on a 5 minute comedy sketch

Thirteen minutes, actually.

[ProfessorDavey]

Thirteen minutes, actually.

Then I apologise and will rephrase:

How am I trying to spoil this thread - I'm trying to get people to focus on Previn's actually 8 decade career, rather than on a 13 minute comedy sketch

[ProfessorDavey]

I reckon that if you polled the entire World’s population on what they associate with André Previn, the vast majority will never have heard of him. Maybe some millions will have some idea that he was an orchestra conductor but not be able to name any significant achievement of his and they might outnumber the people - mainly from the UK - who will say “he was the one in the right notes in the wrong order sketch”. I’d be quite sure that this last group would outnumber the people who could name a specific achievement of his that isn’t appearing on Morcambe and Wise.

Thank you for rather begrudgingly confirming that you were wrong to claim that 'but for the majority of people, that appearance on the Morcambe and Wise Show is the defining moment of Preview's career.'

I not even convinced that the M&W sketch has the reach in the UK you might think it does. Sure most of us on this MB are of an age where M&W is part of our heritage, but don't forget that there are generations of younger people who really have no idea who M&W were, including my kids. Yet my son was loving the Previn/Peterson duet on youtube the other day, as he is a big jazz fan.

Now I understand it isn't anything to do with his musical achievements, but I suspect the most widely known aspect of Previn's life is that he was married to Mia Farrow.

[jeremyp]

Then I apologise and will rephrase:

How am I trying to spoil this thread - I'm trying to get people to focus on Previn's actually 8 decade career, rather than on a 13 minute comedy sketch

You made your point a long time ago. Why are you still going on about it?

[jeremyp]

Thank you for rather begrudgingly confirming that you were wrong to claim that 'but for the majority of people, that appearance on the Morcambe and Wise Show is the defining moment of Preview's career.'

You’re right. I should have said “for the majority of people who can name anything specific he did” or “for the majority of British people”.

I not even convinced that the M&W sketch has the reach in the UK you might think it does.

Really? How come pretty much every British media outlet led with that sketch?

Now I understand it isn't anything to do with his musical achievements, but I suspect the most widely known aspect of Previn's life is that he was married to Mia Farrow.

Maybe in the USA. But wouldn’t you prefer to be known for a genius comedy sketch than a failed marriage?

[ProfessorDavey]

Really? How come pretty much every British media outlet led with that sketch?

Except they didn't - the M&W sketch barely gets a mention in the obits from the Guardian, Independent and Telegraph and none led on it.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/feb/28/andre-previn-obituary
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/andre-previn-obituary-death-oscar-composer-conductor-dead-a8803221.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2019/02/28/andre-previn-prodigiously-talented-conductor-pianist-composer/

[ProfessorDavey]

But wouldn’t you prefer to be known for a genius comedy sketch than a failed marriage?

Yup - but if I were a musical genius with an 8 decade career that was global and spanned jazz, film music and classical that I think I'd prefer to be remembered for that rather than a failed marriage or a comedy sketch.

[ProfessorDavey]

And despite his busy schedule - he was on tour in America - as soon as he landed back in Britain he went to the studio to do the M&W show, and learned the script in the cab on the way from the airport.

Not true - the reason why he had no time to rehearse was because he had to return to New York because his mother was seriously ill, not because he was on tour. Another reason why the whole thing was pretty stressful for all concerned as the producer has confirmed on a number of occasions. Apparently Morecambe was so concerned about the lack of preparation he wanted to cancel the whole thing.

And I think he has freely admitted that he'd only seen the sketch once in his lifetime, some 25 years after it was made.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Not true - the reason why he had no time to rehearse was because he had to return to New York because his mother was seriously ill, not because he was on tour. Another reason why the whole thing was pretty stressful for all concerned as the producer has confirmed on a number of occasions. Apparently Morecambe was so concerned about the lack of preparation he wanted to cancel the whole thing.

We weren't discussing Eric Morecambe's recollection of rehearsing the sketch, but feel free to start a tribute thread to Morcambe and Wise if you want to discuss Eric Morcambe's rehearsing techniques. We were discussing whether Previn did the sketch out of contractual obligations to the BBC as you seemed to be implying. Previn's own words in the BBC interview says he jumped at the chance of being in the M&W show when he was approached by the BBC to ask if he would consider it, as Previn said he was a big fan of M&W.

Glad you now accept that your opinions that he may have done the show due to the BBC putting it together based on contractual obligations, were complete nonsense. Previn just seems to have had a better sense of humour than you give him credit for.

In my BBC iPlayer link, Previn discusses the sketch from about 9 minutes into the programme, and about 9 mins 20 secs he says he was in tour in America and when he came back they had this sketch in mind and  he "rehearsed it on the way from the airport to the BBC and we did it. It was that simple".

Which is why I said he had a busy schedule because he was on tour in America and as soon as he came back he went to the studio to do the M&W sketch. Are you saying you have proof that Previn was mistaken in his recollection of his involvement in the M&W comedy sketch?

If you want to add other information to the story, it's up to you to provide evidence to back up your assertions. You're credibility on this is running a bit low.

[ProfessorDavey]

In my BBC iPlayer link, Previn discusses the sketch from about 9 minutes into the programme, and about 9 mins 20 secs he says he was in tour in America and when he came back they had this sketch in mind and  he "rehearsed it on the way from the airport to the BBC and we did it. It was that simple".

Which is why I said he had a busy schedule because he was on tour in America and as soon as he came back he went to the studio to do the M&W sketch. Are you saying you have proof that Previn was mistaken in his recollection of his involvement in the M&W comedy sketch?

Nope that isn't what happened, and what Previn says (note the edit half way through) is entirely consistent with the reality. This is a direct quote about the events from the show's producer John Ammonds:

'“His agent needed to know how long we would want him, as he was obviously very busy. I told them a full week. We always had the guests a full week so they could rehearse. I could almost hear a crash at the other end of the phone. Andre could not give us a full week and the best we could agree on was three days.”

“Eric was unhappy with the situation and expressed concern about how he could learn the whole routine in that time. I managed to persuade him it would be fine.”

“At the first read through I was helpless with laughter. As Andre was reading it, he was also performing it, and we all knew it was going to be great. Then trouble struck. Later that day I got a call from his agent who told me Andre had to leave. He had to fly to America because his mother was ill. Worse still, he wouldn’t be back until the night before the actual show. I was dreading breaking the news to Eric.”

“Eric seriously considered scrapping the whole routine. Based on the brief rehearsal I said it would be fine, but there were very real concerns over this. He confided in me that the routine was not as funny as thought it was. The next night when we did it for real, in front of an audience and the roof went off.”'

So the plan was that once Previn returned from tour there would be a read through of Green and Hill's long-standing sketch (which happened as planned, alluded to in Previn's clip before the edit). After that things went wrong - Previn's mother became ill and he needed to return to the USA (rather than being on tour) and the planned rehearsals therefore couldn't take place. We've no idea what Previn said in the edited section, but his comment on coming in from the airport refers to his return from his unplanned trip due to his mother's illness, not his scheduled tour, as clearly indicated in Ammonds' piece.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

If you are reading through the Morecambe and Wise website for your information, why did you pretend that Previn did the show because of contractual obligations to the BBC? And why not just link to the website? It's almost like you're trying to hide the information that proves you wrong about Previn's willing involvement with M&W. Just before the section you just quoted it says:

The most famous guest was probably Andre Previn, and the way in which John got him was a mix of good luck, coincidence and perseverance.

“I’d seen him on a BBC2 programme talking to camera, and I knew he had a good experience with all kinds of entertainment.” John begins, “Eric liked the idea of using for the Grieg sketch but said I would never get him.”

“I called up the producer of the show I had seen him in and was told by his secretary that he was three floors below me at the BBC, editing a show. I went straight down. He informed me he was meeting Andre for lunch the next day and would mention the idea.”

“The following day I got a call and eventually ended up speaking to the man himself. He was keen on the idea and so it was up to his agent and myself to put the plan together that fitted us both.”

http://www.morecambeandwise.com/ViewPage.aspx?pageID=405

That Previn did a tour of America, came to London to rehearse and do the M&W show, flew back to America to visit his sick mother and still came back in time to do the show with little rehearsal when he could have cancelled just shows what a big fan he must have been of M&W. An ill mother and no rehearsal time would have been a perfectly acceptable reason for him to drop out from doing the show. Glad we are celebrating something on this thread that seems to have mattered to him, despite your best efforts.
 

[Harrowby Hall]

I just want to say something else about Andre Previn if I can penetrate this seemingly unending stuff about Morecambe and Wise.

The London Symphony Orchestra is now considered to be one of the four or five best orchestras in the world. It wasn't when he was appointed its chief conductor. In fact, it was an almost all-male, macho, laddish ensemble renowned (in the pages of Private Eye at least) for taking a delight in destroying conductors it didn't like. Principals would also absent themselves for more remunerative engagements and send along deputies to replace them. It always behaved itself on the public platform but at rehearsals ...  A significant reason for the LSO being able to get away with such behaviour was that it was self-governing.

During his eleven years in that post Previn - helped by enlightened management - was able to start the process whereby the orchestra began to review the way it behaved. Appointing women players helped (although it was several years before the proportion of women approached that of - say - the BBC Symphony Orchestra). I suspect that he helped the orchestra to start taking itself seriously.

Following his formal resignation from the post, Previn continued to appear regularly with the LSO - and for the last twenty years or so has held honorary positions as Conductor Laureate and Conductor Emeritus - meaning that his association with the LSO was longer than with any other orchestra.

Another aspect of the LSO's life that Previn probably influenced was its association with American music and musicians. Michael Tilson Thomas became chief conductor and a very close relationship developed with Leonard Bernstein. Another composer/conductor who worked frequently with the orchestra was John Williams - this relationship has probably resulted in the LSO being heard by more people than any other orchestra in history!