Author Topic: Getting down and dirty for God  (Read 447 times)

Anchorman

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Getting down and dirty for God
« on: August 11, 2019, 10:19:53 PM »
 "Getting down and dirty for God" was a booklet the Iona Community put out in the early eighties; it set out a radical agenda of practical Christian involvement with addicts, street workers, the homeless, as well as political demonstrations against nuclear weapons and certain government policies which affected "the least, the last and the lost" in society. All this tied up with personal devotions by the members of the community on a daily basis, regardless of where in the world they were, and group worship on Iona or at the community's Glasgow HQ. The booklet is being updated and re launched in October, as we find nothing in that agenda which needs changing.
"The rose of all the world is not for me.
I want, for my part only the little white rose of Scotland,
that smells sharp and sweet and breaks the heart."

Littleroses

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2019, 08:59:10 AM »
"Getting down and dirty for God" was a booklet the Iona Community put out in the early eighties; it set out a radical agenda of practical Christian involvement with addicts, street workers, the homeless, as well as political demonstrations against nuclear weapons and certain government policies which affected "the least, the last and the lost" in society. All this tied up with personal devotions by the members of the community on a daily basis, regardless of where in the world they were, and group worship on Iona or at the community's Glasgow HQ. The booklet is being updated and re launched in October, as we find nothing in that agenda which needs changing.

I have absolutely no objection to Christians doing good works, as long as they are not forcing their faith down the throats of those they are helping.
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Steve H

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2019, 09:13:21 AM »
I have absolutely no objection to Christians doing good works, as long as they are not forcing their faith down the throats of those they are helping.
...which hardly any of them do. The ones who dothat don't generally do practical good works.
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Gordon

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2019, 09:32:28 AM »
I have absolutely no objection to Christians doing good works, as long as they are not forcing their faith down the throats of those they are helping.

The Iona Community certainly don't force anyone: I went there a few years back (John Smith is buried there - if only we had him around now) and chatted to some of the members there, who didn't in the least evangelise.

I was quite happy to make a donation to them.

Anchorman

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2019, 10:03:54 AM »
...which hardly any of them do. The ones who dothat don't generally do practical good works.
I have absolutely no objection to Christians doing good works, as long as they are not forcing their faith down the throats of those they are helping.
   




We don't make any secret of whose we are or whom we serve; but, as to forcing things 'down their throat'?
It just gets up their nose.
That's not the way we work.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 10:16:12 AM by Gordon »
"The rose of all the world is not for me.
I want, for my part only the little white rose of Scotland,
that smells sharp and sweet and breaks the heart."

Robbie

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2019, 10:20:19 AM »
Thank you for starting this thread, I really want to learn more about the community. I'll return later.
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Anchorman

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2019, 11:38:44 AM »
George McLeod, who founded the IC, had the idea of bringing the two halves together - worship and work, making the activities of the group, whether on the island o or wherever, worship. He considered working with the unemployed and homeless in Glasgow, even when God was not given a mention, just as much an act of worship as time spent in praise. We were encouraged to be involved in our local areas; my first project was as part of a drug rehab 'safe house' in Ayr in the very early eighties, trying to live with addicts as they tried to break the cycle. Sometimes we were succesful, other times tragically not. The house, though run through the IC, was staffwed by people of faith and otherwise. The three of us who were IC members would gather for devotions in the kitchen about half past six each morning. We didn't advertise the time; if anyone wanted to join us, we welcomed them as equals, if not....once we had finished , it was scouring pads at the ready and the kitchen got its' daily clean!
"The rose of all the world is not for me.
I want, for my part only the little white rose of Scotland,
that smells sharp and sweet and breaks the heart."

Robbie

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2019, 12:10:32 PM »
It sounds marvellously idealistic, Anchorman.

See you later.
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Robbie

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2019, 01:07:10 AM »
Just a quickie before I go to sleep (that sounds a bit.....).

I've been reading about the Iona Community today, am totally fascinated. I think I'd like one of their retreats. Wish they weren't so far away.
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Anchorman

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2019, 09:04:44 AM »
Just a quickie before I go to sleep (that sounds a bit.....).

I've been reading about the Iona Community today, am totally fascinated. I think I'd like one of their retreats. Wish they weren't so far away.
 

Retreats?
Ah, that reminds me of Camas.
Camas is the IC's outdoor centre, on the tip of Mull, facing the island. It's relatively civilised now - it even has electricity, running water and a (sort of) path to the  nearest village.
My first encounter with the IC was as part of a youth Fellowship retreat.
Camas then consisted of the two cottages.
That was it.
The cottages WERE roofed. No internal walls, no plumbing, stone floor. Our task was to avoid eating each other, develop what was to be the garden, create a 'worship space' (Whatever that meant) out of what we could find -  never mind loaves and fishes; Thank God for abandoned rope fish nets and fish boxes.
If we needed food, we had to hike to the village to buy it.
Someone came to the place once every two days to check we were still relatively sane.
After the fortnight, we had to present a play we had written about our experience to the Abbey at the evening worship on the Island.

Today's lot don't know they're born: they even have access to a 'phone: mind you - so did we; if we were prepared to hike three miles to get to it.....


Anyway, here's a link to the luxury of today's Camas.

https://iona.org.uk/island-centres/camas-the-outdoor-centre-with-a-difference/
"The rose of all the world is not for me.
I want, for my part only the little white rose of Scotland,
that smells sharp and sweet and breaks the heart."

enki

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2019, 03:02:46 PM »
Hi Anchorman,
Reminds me of the time I and a friend spent Youth Hostelling in the late 50s. Some of the places we stayed at only had the bare essentials, others were luxurious. One was a converted castle. In particular I remember staying at the Black Sail Hut in Ennerdale, Cumbria on a walking/youth hostelling holiday. It was about four miles to the nearest habitation, there was no road so all supplies had to be carried and no electricity in those days, but a lovely warm wood fire in the evening and a most glorious view. Loved it. Plenty of happy memories. :)
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Anchorman

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2019, 03:54:42 PM »
Hi Anchorman,
Reminds me of the time I and a friend spent Youth Hostelling in the late 50s. Some of the places we stayed at only had the bare essentials, others were luxurious. One was a converted castle. In particular I remember staying at the Black Sail Hut in Ennerdale, Cumbria on a walking/youth hostelling holiday. It was about four miles to the nearest habitation, there was no road so all supplies had to be carried and no electricity in those days, but a lovely warm wood fire in the evening and a most glorious view. Loved it. Plenty of happy memories. :)
   


As far as I was concerned, Luxury at Camas was having less than half a million midgies per cubic metre.....I often questioned God's judgement in creating the d----d things.....
"The rose of all the world is not for me.
I want, for my part only the little white rose of Scotland,
that smells sharp and sweet and breaks the heart."

ippy

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2019, 05:03:05 PM »
Always good to hear of anyone doing good works, loads of atheists do good works of a similar nature too just out of feelings for their their fellow human beings only without looking over their shoulders in the hope of collecting a few  imaginary brownie points?

ippy

Anchorman

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2019, 05:26:56 PM »
Always good to hear of anyone doing good works, loads of atheists do good works of a similar nature too just out of feelings for their their fellow human beings only without looking over their shoulders in the hope of collecting a few  imaginary brownie points?

ippy
     


Brownie points?
I'll have you know I was in the Boys' Brigade forty-five years!
Besides, it doesn't work that way.
I could work and pray till my arms fall off and my tongue withers and it wouldn't earn me a millisecond ibn eternity.

"The rose of all the world is not for me.
I want, for my part only the little white rose of Scotland,
that smells sharp and sweet and breaks the heart."

Dicky Underpants

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2019, 05:49:06 PM »
Always good to hear of anyone doing good works, loads of atheists do good works of a similar nature too just out of feelings for their their fellow human beings only without looking over their shoulders in the hope of collecting a few  imaginary brownie points?

ippy

Anchorman, and many other Christians believe in justification by faith, not justification by works. Their faith may prompt them to do good works, but that's not the main point for them.
I believe the Catholics and the Mormons are in a half-way house on these doctrines. The JWs are definitely of the justification by works brigade, except that just means standing on street corners or getting their foot in your door.

Robbie

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2019, 07:53:23 PM »
Yeah!

Christians generally don't mock or make sarcastic comments to non Christians and don't resent them. I did say "generally".

Anchor, thank you for putting me off an IC retreat. This year, their retreats are taking place in a reasonable hotel - St Columbia or something like. However I don't really want to travel far, in fairly recent times I prefer being within a car, train or bus journey of home.

I found this interesting, like what I read about the support workers.

https://iona.org.uk/about-us/who-we-are/
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 07:57:03 PM by Robbie »
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Anchorman

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2019, 10:45:20 PM »
 In all seriousness, the retreats at the Columba are unique, typical of the IC, presenting different types of worship, times of reflection, and challenges to action. One of the many things I've loved over the years is the integration; you could be working in a group with a Baptist, a Presbyterian, R.C and a Methodist and the labels don't matter. Several of the mainstream church leaders once thought we were subversive - and they were right. Whilst maintaining our individual identitiers as members of differing denominations, we manage to unite as a community and get under the skin of dogma. I've a friend who works full time with the community in the Blythswood Square Glasgow HQ, and, though most of us know which church he belongs to, I know for a fact that, one day, a visiting Baptist pastor and an RC bishop were both adamant that he was 'one of ours'!
"The rose of all the world is not for me.
I want, for my part only the little white rose of Scotland,
that smells sharp and sweet and breaks the heart."

Anchorman

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2019, 10:59:23 PM »
      Many Christians know this hymn; it's set to the Scottish folk tune 'Dream Angus', and was written for worship in Iona Abbey, by John Bell, an rather unconventional minister who was born in Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, and remains musical director of the Wild Goose Worship Group. The Celts had no concept of what a dove was, so Columba and his successors chose the Wild Goose as emblematic of the Holy Spirit. The WGWG is an active part of the Iona Community today, and this song sort of sums up who we are. Christ's is the world in which we move; Christ's are the folk we're summoned to love; Christ's is the voice which calls us to care, and Christ is the one who meets us here . To the lost Christ shows his face, to the unloved he gives his embrace, to those who cry in pain or disgrace Christ makes, with his friends, a touching place. Feel for the people we must avoid - strange or bereaved or never employed. Feel for the women and feel for the men who fear that their living is all in vain . To the lost............. Feel for the parents who've lost their child, feel for the women whom men have defiled, feel for the baby for whom there's no breast, and feel for the weary who find no rest . To the lost.............. Feel for the lives by life confused, riddled with doubt, in loving abused; feel for the lonely heart, conscious of sin, which longs to be pure but fears to begin. To the lost.................
"The rose of all the world is not for me.
I want, for my part only the little white rose of Scotland,
that smells sharp and sweet and breaks the heart."

Nearly Sane

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2019, 09:37:52 AM »
I met John Bell a couple of times when he did some Univ of Glasgow functions after he had been Rector - lovely chap. We once had a drink spilled over both of us by his successor as Rector, Reggie Bosanquet.


Anchorman

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2019, 10:28:14 AM »
I met John Bell a couple of times when he did some Univ of Glasgow functions after he had been Rector - lovely chap. We once had a drink spilled over both of us by his successor as Rector, Reggie Bosanquet.


   

I've known John since I was about eighteen - my own minister at the time was his mentor just after John was ordained.
There's a manky old caravan in Riverside Museum which brings back memories of the day John, a few others, and myself, consoled ourselves that we had not been arrested along with three others after a demo outside Faslane........
"The rose of all the world is not for me.
I want, for my part only the little white rose of Scotland,
that smells sharp and sweet and breaks the heart."

Nearly Sane

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2019, 10:41:51 AM »
   

I've known John since I was about eighteen - my own minister at the time was his mentor just after John was ordained.
There's a manky old caravan in Riverside Museum which brings back memories of the day John, a few others, and myself, consoled ourselves that we had not been arrested along with three others after a demo outside Faslane........
We should arrange a visit so you can regale Gordon, Gonnagle and me with the tale.

Steve H

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2019, 01:02:36 PM »
   

I've known John since I was about eighteen - my own minister at the time was his mentor just after John was ordained.
There's a manky old caravan in Riverside Museum which brings back memories of the day John, a few others, and myself, consoled ourselves that we had not been arrested along with three others after a demo outside Faslane........
Were you involved with Faslane peace camp? If so, did you know my son, Danny Horsfall, who was a member of it for a year or two in the late90s/early00s?
"That bloke over there, from Ultravox, is so childish."
"Him? Midge Ure?"
"Yes, very."

Anchorman

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Re: Getting down and dirty for God
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2019, 01:13:49 PM »
Were you involved with Faslane peace camp? If so, did you know my son, Danny Horsfall, who was a member of it for a year or two in the late90s/early00s?
   



After my time!
I knew a few 'residents' at the camp, though never actually stayed there. My involvement was around 1982. My knees didn't creak so much then....
The last time I visited was 2015.
"The rose of all the world is not for me.
I want, for my part only the little white rose of Scotland,
that smells sharp and sweet and breaks the heart."