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Author Topic: Are humans unique?  (Read 12372 times)

Steve H

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #150 on: October 16, 2019, 12:53:33 PM »
Quote from: Gordon on October 16, 2019, 11:14:33 AM
True: but then we can't fly, breath underwater or hear sound frequencies that dogs can.
I don't think any of those abilities are confined to a single species.
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I came to realise that every time we recognise something human in creatures, we are also recognising something creaturely in ourselves. That is central to the rejection of human supremacism as the pernicious doctrine it is.
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Gordon

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #151 on: October 16, 2019, 01:03:24 PM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 16, 2019, 12:53:33 PM
I don't think any of those abilities are confined to a single species.

They're not, as you say: for those species having those abilities in various ways they are essential, hence they have evolved in those species, but not for other species (like ours).

I suspect the comparison between species based on attributes, or that some attributes are better or more useful than others, is utterly pointless - hence observations along the lines of that fish have little use for bicycles.
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Roses

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #152 on: October 16, 2019, 01:29:46 PM »
Quote from: Gordon on October 16, 2019, 01:03:24 PM
They're not, as you say: for those species having those abilities in various ways they are essential, hence they have evolved in those species, but not for other species (like ours).

I suspect the comparison between species based on attributes, or that some attributes are better or more useful than others, is utterly pointless - hence observations along the lines of that fish have little use for bicycles.

I agree.
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jeremyp

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #153 on: October 16, 2019, 02:47:32 PM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 15, 2019, 11:04:41 PM
we have important abilites which are not shared by any other currently-living species:

I agree the abilities you list are unique to humans and they are important to us. However, are they important in any general sense? It seems to me that the ability to reproduce every 20 minutes (i.e. like lots of bacteria) is far more important, especially considering that bacteria outnumber all the other living organisms by orders of magnitude.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #154 on: October 16, 2019, 02:53:55 PM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 16, 2019, 08:47:18 AM
I meant trivial because it's part of the definition of a species. It's not that difficult to understand, but let me try again: all species are unique by definition. That's why that kind of uniqueness is trivial. I was trying to avoid the phrase "by definition", because it is much abused, and is often little more than a vague intensifier. Here, though, it is meant in the strict sense. What I mean by "unique" in this thread, though, is "having properties shared by no other species", which makes humans unique for their language and tool-making abilites, amongst other things. Other species may be unique in other ways, but not the male egg-laying ability of seahorses, the example offered by LR, beause there are over 40 different species of seahorse, and the feature is shared by pipefish, to which seahorses are related.

Again this isn't addressing the question, even if we accept that the different abilities are 'uniquely unique', and I don't think that it has been clearly shown that they are not just similar to other animals abilities but  by a order of magnitude better, are you claiming that the evolution of humans is in someway unique rather than we have evolved with human uniqueness, just as all other animals have?
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Roses

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #155 on: October 16, 2019, 03:22:32 PM »
Quote from: Nearly Sane on October 16, 2019, 02:53:55 PM
Again this isn't addressing the question, even if we accept that the different abilities are 'uniquely unique', and I don't think that it has been clearly shown that they are not just similar to other animals abilities but  by a order of magnitude better, are you claiming that the evolution of humans is in someway unique rather than we have evolved with human uniqueness, just as all other animals have?

An excellent question. :)
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Outrider

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #156 on: October 16, 2019, 03:33:54 PM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 14, 2019, 10:30:35 PM
Hom. sap. hasn't existed for millions of years! Ffs - if you must disagree for the sake of disagreeing, at least don't ignore known facts!

My turn - are you being deliberately dense?  Of course we haven't been homo sapiens for millions of years, but we evolved from things that were there millions of years ago.  Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not all of us have evolved reading skills?

You see how that attitude grates?

Now, what became homo sapiens evolved traits over millions of years, some of which became the complex language and tool using skills we currently enjoy - the advent of each of this individual elements was random, so I ask again - should we consider the emergency of that particular combination of traits to be significant enough to justify some sort of 'unique' classification, or should we accept that the fortunate confluence of individual traits which we see in other organisms has had a fortunate compound effect and that we are not 'unique' in any underlying way, we are just fortunate in the combination of traits we've inherited?

O.
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Steve H

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #157 on: October 16, 2019, 10:27:22 PM »
I wish Ihadn't started this bloody thread now. I'll leave the rest of you to it. 'Bye.
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I came to realise that every time we recognise something human in creatures, we are also recognising something creaturely in ourselves. That is central to the rejection of human supremacism as the pernicious doctrine it is.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #158 on: October 16, 2019, 11:31:44 PM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 16, 2019, 10:27:22 PM
I wish Ihadn't started this bloody thread now. I'll leave the rest of you to it. 'Bye.
Isn't that the sort of reply you have stated previously means the person has lost the argument?
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Udayana

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #159 on: October 17, 2019, 07:50:01 AM »
Quote from: Nearly Sane on October 16, 2019, 11:31:44 PM
Isn't that the sort of reply you have stated previously means the person has lost the argument?
There was an argument?
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Roses

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #160 on: October 17, 2019, 09:05:17 AM »
Quote from: Nearly Sane on October 16, 2019, 11:31:44 PM
Isn't that the sort of reply you have stated previously means the person has lost the argument?

Yep.  ;D
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Steve H

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #161 on: October 17, 2019, 11:14:27 AM »
Quote from: Nearly Sane on October 16, 2019, 11:31:44 PM
Isn't that the sort of reply you have stated previously means the person has lost the argument?
No, that's "We'll have to agree to disagree", or words to that effect.
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I came to realise that every time we recognise something human in creatures, we are also recognising something creaturely in ourselves. That is central to the rejection of human supremacism as the pernicious doctrine it is.
Robert Macfarlane

Roses

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #162 on: October 17, 2019, 11:24:04 AM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 17, 2019, 11:14:27 AM
No, that's "We'll have to agree to disagree", or words to that effect.

Wow, that was a short goodbye! ;D ;D ;D
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #163 on: October 17, 2019, 01:22:52 PM »
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Steve H

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #164 on: October 17, 2019, 01:32:46 PM »
Quote from: Nearly Sane on October 17, 2019, 01:22:52 PM
Seems relevant


https://www.discoverwildlife.com/news/theory-of-mind-demonstrated-great-apes/
When a great ape independently comes up with a theory of mind relating to humans, I'll be impressed.
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I came to realise that every time we recognise something human in creatures, we are also recognising something creaturely in ourselves. That is central to the rejection of human supremacism as the pernicious doctrine it is.
Robert Macfarlane

Roses

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #165 on: October 17, 2019, 01:54:07 PM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 17, 2019, 01:32:46 PM
When a great ape independently comes up with a theory of mind relating to humans, I'll be impressed.

You might have to wait a little while but it may happen one day.
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Walter

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #166 on: October 17, 2019, 02:01:10 PM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 17, 2019, 01:32:46 PM
When a great ape independently comes up with a theory of mind relating to humans, I'll be impressed.
I'm with you on that Steve H
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Robbie

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #167 on: October 17, 2019, 02:56:01 PM »
Quite a good thread Steven. Even though I haven't been joining it, I've read all the posts.

NS:-
Quote from: Steve H on October 16, 2019, 10:27:22 PM
I wish Ihadn't started this bloody thread now. I'll leave the rest of you to it. 'Bye.

Isn't that the sort of reply you have stated previously means the person has lost the argument?
_____
I don't see the point of going over the same ground endlessly albeit with different words. There have been threads that are never ending and go round in circles, might as well walk away from them or at least have a break & think about something else.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #168 on: October 17, 2019, 03:02:15 PM »
Quote from: Robbie on October 17, 2019, 02:56:01 PM
Quite a good thread Steven. Even though I haven't been joining it, I've read all the posts.

NS:-
Quote from: Steve H on October 16, 2019, 10:27:22 PM
I wish Ihadn't started this bloody thread now. I'll leave the rest of you to it. 'Bye.

Isn't that the sort of reply you have stated previously means the person has lost the argument?
_____
I don't see the point of going over the same ground endlessly albeit with different words. There have been threads that are never ending and go round in circles, might as well walk away from them or at least have a break & think about something else.
Oh, I agree, it was just that Steve has posted in the past that when people suggest that they are agreeing to differ, then they are accepting that they have lost the argument. Sometimes it's just as you say, it's not going anywhere.
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Robbie

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #169 on: October 17, 2019, 05:18:06 PM »
Yeah.
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Steve H

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #170 on: October 17, 2019, 10:58:59 PM »
Quote from: Littleroses on October 17, 2019, 01:54:07 PM
You might have to wait a little while but it may happen one day.
Not unless they evolve into creatures a lot more intelligent than they are now.
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I came to realise that every time we recognise something human in creatures, we are also recognising something creaturely in ourselves. That is central to the rejection of human supremacism as the pernicious doctrine it is.
Robert Macfarlane

Roses

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #171 on: October 18, 2019, 08:22:01 AM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 17, 2019, 10:58:59 PM
Not unless they evolve into creatures a lot more intelligent than they are now.

Maybe they will in the future.
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Steve H

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #172 on: October 18, 2019, 01:24:22 PM »
Quote from: Littleroses on October 18, 2019, 08:22:01 AM
Maybe they will in the future.
The thread title is "ARE humans unique?", not "WILL humans BE unique in the future?". Pay attention at the back.
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I came to realise that every time we recognise something human in creatures, we are also recognising something creaturely in ourselves. That is central to the rejection of human supremacism as the pernicious doctrine it is.
Robert Macfarlane

Roses

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #173 on: October 18, 2019, 01:31:51 PM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 18, 2019, 01:24:22 PM
The thread title is "ARE humans unique?", not "WILL humans BE unique in the future?". Pay attention at the back.

It is you who doesn't seem to understand what has been posted by others. ::)
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Steve H

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Re: Are humans unique?
« Reply #174 on: October 18, 2019, 01:34:45 PM »
Quote from: Littleroses on October 18, 2019, 01:31:51 PM
It is you who doesn't seem to understand what has been posted by others. ::)
Examples?
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I came to realise that every time we recognise something human in creatures, we are also recognising something creaturely in ourselves. That is central to the rejection of human supremacism as the pernicious doctrine it is.
Robert Macfarlane
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