Are humans unique?

[Steve H]

Two online articles: No, theyre not, and yes, they are.
This is what I wrote on the "Evolution and creation open debate" Facebook group, where I came across these links:

I think some of the ["No they aren't"] article's conclusions are questionable. I don't think animal emotions are a recent discovery; it's always been obvious that they can feel anger, fear, grief and joy. Picking up a stick to get at termites is hardly comparable with designing and building a clock or a computer, and this kind of basic tool use has also long been known about.
Chimps and gorillas, as we now know, can learn to use human language to communicate at a basic level, but they have never come up with a complex language of their own.
No animal species that I'm aware of has ever invented religion. Some in this group [and on this forum] will regard that as a good thing, but that's not the point: religion, good or bad, is a uniquely human trait.
 There is, of course, the threshold argument: that humans can build on previous achievements because we are capable of making those earlier achievements, whereas our nearest relatives, the great apes, can't quite make the first step. The analogy I've read is two frogs at the bottom of a flight of steps. Each step is 12" high: one frog can jump 12.5", the other 11'5". The first frog can get onto the first step, and from there to the second, and eventually to the top, but the second can never quite reach the first step; but the difference in ability between them is quite small. However, as no ape species has ever devised a language of their own, or complex, built tools, or religion (which was important in human progress, whatever you think of it nowadays), I think the difference is more fundamental than that.

Can I suggest that this is not a specifically religious argument, although conservative religious believers will be committed to the "yes, they are" side, and can I ask that there be no mention of leprechauns, or posts of the "If god exists, it must be an evil psycho imo" variety. Not, of course, that I want to (or even can) tell people what they can and can't post.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Steve H,

Are humans special?

What do you mean by "special"?

[Roses]

Humans are an animal species, but are more intellectually developed than other species.

[Steve H]

Steve H,

What do you mean by "special"?

We have unique abilites, not shared by other species - language, complex tool-making, religion, and other things. No other single species has abilities unique to it. This is more than just being more intelligent than other species; we have unique abilities, which other have not got at all, not just not to the same extent as humans. The limited language-learning ability of chimps and gorillas is not an exception; they've never developed a complex language of their own. I know most animals, and even plants, can communicate, but that's not the same as complex language. I know a dog can warn other dogs of danger by saying WOOFWOOFWOOFWOOF!, but it can't say "Look out! there's a lion over there! no, not over there, you idiot, over there! Next to the Baobab tree! Oh shit - it's seen us!".

[bluehillside Retd.]

Steve H,

We have unique abilites, not shared by other species - language, complex tool-making, religion, and other things. No other single species has abilities unique to it.

Are you sure about that? Lots of species have unique characteristics don't they - the Alaskan frog for example can survive freezing:

https://gizmodo.com/this-alaskan-frog-can-survive-getting-frozen-and-thawed-1566672668

[Roses]

We have unique abilites, not shared by other species - language, complex tool-making, religion, and other things. No other single species has abilities unique to it.

The other animal species, like the apes, might progress in the way humans have in the future. Hopefully they won't take on religion, which has done more harm than good to the human species, imo.

[Steve H]

The other animal species, like the apes, might progress in the way humans have in the future. Hopefully they won't take on religion, which has done more harm than good to the human species, imo.

They've made no progress in millions of years, so how likely are they to start now?

[Outrider]

They've made no progress in millions of years, so how likely are they to start now?

The precursors of modern humans made no progress for well in excess of that (Humans are around 66 million years old, gorillas apparently somewhere around 10 million) - whatever kick-started our activity may be just around their corner.

Being first might make us something 'special' in a way - assuming that we are first and not just the first around here.  Who knows what's currently wandering around the cosmos waiting for someone else to get special enough to make contact?

O.

[Bramble]

Humans certainly have 'special needs'.

[Nearly Sane]

You have to show why you think there is a fundamental difference between the spread of abilities between humans and other animals, as opposed to the myriad other differences rather than simply assert it.

[Nearly Sane]

And to answer the question, yes and so are cockroaches (Insert any species here)

[Roses]

The precursors of modern humans made no progress for well in excess of that (Humans are around 66 million years old, gorillas apparently somewhere around 10 million) - whatever kick-started our activity may be just around their corner.

Being first might make us something 'special' in a way - assuming that we are first and not just the first around here.  Who knows what's currently wandering around the cosmos waiting for someone else to get special enough to make contact?

O.

That answers Steve's question. It is possible there are other life forms in the universe who are much more intelligent than the human species.

[Steve H]

You have to show why you think there is a fundamental difference between the spread of abilities between humans and other animals, as opposed to the myriad other differences rather than simply assert it.

Read my previous posts!

[jeremyp]

Just one observation:

Most humans I know don't know how to build a clock or a computer.

[Steve H]

The precursors of modern humans made no progress for well in excess of that (Humans are around 66 million years old, gorillas apparently somewhere around 10 million) - whatever kick-started our activity may be just around their corner.

Where on earth do you get that figure from? The oldest Homo sapiens remains so far found are 200,000 years old. Older ones may yet be found, but it's hardly likely that they'll be anywhere near one million years old, let alone 66 million!

[Outrider]

Where on earth do you get that figure from? The oldest Homo sapiens remains so far found are 200,000 years old. Older ones may yet be found, but it's hardly likely that they'll be anywhere near one million years old, let alone 66 million!

That's poor - that's two typos in one from me, apologies.

It should be the precursors of humans, and it should have been 6 million years, not 66, which is roughly the oldest common ancestor of humans and the great apes, as I understand it?

O.

[Steve H]

I might have known this thread would rapidly decend into smart-arsery, dim-wittery, missing-the-pointery and irrelevancy. We are talking about life on earth, not hypothetical extra-terrestrial life; Hom sap is only about 200,000 years old, as far as we know; My opening post gave various reasons for thinking humans unique, so I didn't "just assert it"; and what the fuck have cockroaches got to do with anything? Sometimes I despair of this forum.

[Steve H]

That's poor - that's two typos in one from me, apologies.

It should be the precursors of humans, and it should have been 6 million years, not 66, which is roughly the oldest common ancestor of humans and the great apes, as I understand it?

O.

The precursors of humans are beside the point; they may not have had all or any of our unique abilities. It is debated whether they had language, for one thing.

[Steve H]

Just one observation:

Most humans I know don't know how to build a clock or a computer.

Oh, ffs. 

[Steve H]

That answers Steve's question. It is possible there are other life forms in the universe who are much more intelligent than the human species.

There are life forms on earth that are much more intelligent than some members of the human species.
We sre talking about known life forms on earth, not hypothetical extra-terrestrial ones.

[Nearly Sane]

I might have known this thread would rapidly decend into smart-arsery, dim-wittery, missing-the-pointery and irrelevancy. We are talking about life on earth, not hypothetical extra-terrestrial life; Hom sap is only about 200,000 years old, as far as we know; My opening post gave various reasons for thinking humans unique, so I didn't "just assert it"; and what the fuck have cockroaches got to do with anything? Sometimes I despair of this forum.

You asserted that there is some fundamental difference between whatever the difference is between humans and other animals as opposed to all other differences between animals. That we are unique doesn't show that as pretty well all species, cockroaches for example, have unique qualities.

[Outrider]

The precursors of humans are beside the point; they may not have had all or any of our unique abilities. It is debated whether they had language, for one thing.

Let's take a different tack at this, then, to get at what I'm getting at.

If you accept that humanity became humanity by evolving from a common ancestor shared with the great apes due to environmental pressures then, given that the only difference involved is the specific evolutionary pressures on otherwise random mutations amongst the populace, where's the space for 'special' to get into the mix?

O.

[Roses]

There are life forms on earth that are much more intelligent than some members of the human species.
We sre talking about known life forms on earth, not hypothetical extra-terrestrial ones.

And which life forms on this planet would you consider more intelligent than you?

[Steve H]

What unique abilities have cockroaches got? I should point out that there are about 4,600 different species of cockroach, so it is not likely that any one of those species has an ability unique to it, not shared by any of the other species. Humans are one species.

[Steve H]

"Special" is a bad word; I should have said "unique". I'll change the thread title.