Author Topic: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry  (Read 19497 times)

Littleroses

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1575 on: June 06, 2020, 02:31:08 PM »
Please delete had not realised I had done that Roses.

They get punished now and they don't use their children as human sacrifices.

But you knew that and draw attention away from what you do not want to face.

What don't I want to face?
Let your sorrows travel away on the wind, your joys ride on the clouds and your love mingle with the sunbeams. RJG

Sassy

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1576 on: June 06, 2020, 02:36:33 PM »
What don't I want to face?

It is clear in my other posts.

You do not want to face that your arguments have all been dealt with.
You hang on to arguments which are outdated and without any reality regarding the beliefs of others concerning God.  Had you really any beliefs that you adhere to then you would not be posting these arguments and you could argue your beliefs reasonably and logically but you never move past them.
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Owlswing

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1577 on: June 06, 2020, 02:45:27 PM »

Owlswing,

Thou shalt not kill.  Who do the nuns make their vows to?
Why have children to priest and then put them to death?
The truth is that the ROMAN CATHOLIC church were hiding behind a manmade set of rules and at no time did their actions fit in with the final covenant. Love God with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself.  If a nun was following Christ those murders and babies would not have happened. People rebelled because they became angey at being named and shamed made to be cast outs of society. God forgives sinners his son died to save them. Truth is man is too scared in those times of what others think, rather than realising Gods love is about forgiveness and treating others with love.


A couple of points!

One - I am NOT, NOT, NOT, talking about nun's murdering their own babies and I am bloody sure that you damn well knew that when you wrote the above. I was and am talking about nuns running orphanages and homes for un-wed pregnant girls thrown out of by their CHRISTIAN parents, where they took the newborn's and chucked them down a well that was later found to contain over 800 - GET THAT 800 corpses!

And don't try and disown the Catholic Church - both it and the Protestants worship the same God! Maybe in different ways but they both use the same benighted book of rules - The BIBLE!

You use the Bible as the rulebook and carefully ignore the bits that don't fit what you want to make you seem holy and righteous.

The stupidity of your beliefs was demonstrated to me when a military Padre preached a sermon to a regiment of soldiers on how they should obey the Ten Commandments and I leave you to work out what is wrong with that!

The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Littleroses

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1578 on: June 06, 2020, 02:47:15 PM »
It is clear in my other posts.

You do not want to face that your arguments have all been dealt with.
You hang on to arguments which are outdated and without any reality regarding the beliefs of others concerning God.  Had you really any beliefs that you adhere to then you would not be posting these arguments and you could argue your beliefs reasonably and logically but you never move past them.

Oh for pity's sake Sass, you don't half talk some drivel. ::)
Let your sorrows travel away on the wind, your joys ride on the clouds and your love mingle with the sunbeams. RJG

Owlswing

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1579 on: June 06, 2020, 02:54:02 PM »

Oh for pity's sake Sass, you don't half talk some drivel. ::)


Drivel is the tool of choice of most Christians.
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Sassy

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1580 on: June 06, 2020, 03:26:16 PM »
A couple of points!

One - I am NOT, NOT, NOT, talking about nun's murdering their own babies and I am bloody sure that you damn well knew that when you wrote the above.

DID not know that.


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The nuns in Ireland were sacrificing children not centuries, but decades ago, because, the babies, being illegitimate, they were sending them to purgatory as per God's, your God's, law!


Are you saying the babies the nuns gave birth to centuries ago and were killed and threw in lime pits under the Churches were not illegitimate or sent to purgatory? It is a well known fact that children born to pregnant unmarried teenagers were given to childless couples. Where is purgatory in the bible and why would being a child of an unmarried mother be worse than murder?
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I was and am talking about nuns running orphanages and homes for un-wed pregnant girls thrown out of by their CHRISTIAN parents, where they took the newborn's and chucked them down a well that was later found to contain over 800 - GET THAT 800 corpses!

Dead babies like still born and how many were born alive to unwedded mothers or even nuns?
Do you think the nuns or the priest run these homes and where would such orders come from?  As you do not believe in God who ultimately would be guilty? More importantly who as a parent or mother could really condone this?  So if no God then it is surely a mans fault.
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And don't try and disown the Catholic Church - both it and the Protestants worship the same God! Maybe in different ways but they both use the same benighted book of rules - The BIBLE!
You forgot the teachings of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH are NOT ALL BIBLE BASED. The protestant Church of England here not in Ireland did not have babies chucked in wells.
Purgatory is not biblical.
The general Protestant view is that the Bible, from which Protestants exclude deuterocanonical books such as 2 Maccabees, contains no overt, explicit discussion of purgatory and therefore it should be rejected as an unbiblical belief.


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You use the Bible as the rulebook and carefully ignore the bits that don't fit what you want to make you seem holy and righteous.

Wrong: We read the bible in the context it was meant to be read. The fact is the last covenant mentioned and taught in that bible is about Spirit and Truth.  It is not about how the Jews or 12 tribes of Israel came into existence but the purpose and reasons why things happened as they did. Producing the very best and worse of mankind in the world.  The last Covenant is about LOVE and if you knew the bible you would know the faith of CHrist in the world today and the reason for the church which is the only true Church not denominations or their unrighteous actions but the true Church of God where mankind loves God and others. So do not refer to my faith as being anything like your concocted beliefs based on lack of understanding about the things you try to discuss.
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The stupidity of your beliefs was demonstrated to me when a military Padre preached a sermon to a regiment of soldiers on how they should obey the Ten Commandments and I leave you to work out what is wrong with that!


There you go again completely ignoring the truth about my beliefs.  When and which padre  told a regiment they should obey the 10 commandments?  Now I will ask you a question.
Those 10 commandments says "Thou shalt not kill."  So you have a wife and children and you own a gun. Men burst into your home. You can kill them all and save your wife and children being raped and then murdered. Which do you choose and more importantly why?

Which do you think God would expect you to choose?
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Owlswing

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1581 on: June 06, 2020, 04:08:22 PM »

It is a well- known fact that children born to pregnant unmarried teenagers were given to childless couples. Where is purgatory in the bible and why would being a child of an unmarried mother be worse than murder? . . . .

When and which padre told a regiment they should obey the 10 commandments?


1962 - His name I forget but he was a Regimental Padre in the Royal Armoured Corps.

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Those 10 commandments say "Thou shalt not kill."  So you have a wife and children and you own a gun. Men burst into your home. You can kill them all and save your wife and children being raped and then murdered. Which do you choose and more importantly why?


ARE YOU TOTALLY DEAF? Or just plain stupid?

I AM TALKING ABOUT SOLDIERS! Regular Army soldiers! Not some civilian sitting comfortably in his own home!

[/quote]

Sassy - as far as I am concerned the only description I can attach to you is THOROUGHLY COMPLETELY BRAINWASHED and beyond medical help of any sort.

Have it your way, I really cannot be bothered with you any longer, the only choice you have left me is to return to the state I was at before I took a computer enforced holiday from this Forum.
 
To totally ignore you.


Bright Blessings, Love and Light and may the Old Ones watch over you and yours always.

)O(

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The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Sassy

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1582 on: June 07, 2020, 12:31:51 PM »
1962 - His name I forget but he was a Regimental Padre in the Royal Armoured Corps.

ARE YOU TOTALLY DEAF? Or just plain stupid?

None of the above... as you can see there is nothing to HEAR and my replies show that you would not be speaking to me if you thought me stupid as it makes you look stupid too.
Asking me if I am totally deaf is the stupidest thing you have written on a forum where we write.
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I AM TALKING ABOUT SOLDIERS! Regular Army soldiers! Not some civilian sitting comfortably in his own home!

Where was this issue raised?

Quote

Sassy - as far as I am concerned the only description I can attach to you is THOROUGHLY COMPLETELY BRAINWASHED and beyond medical help of any sort.

Have it your way, I really cannot be bothered with you any longer, the only choice you have left me is to return to the state I was at before I took a computer enforced holiday from this Forum.
 
To totally ignore you.


Bright Blessings, Love and Light and may the Old Ones watch over you and yours always.

)O(

Owlswing - Pagan, Priest and Witch in  the Third Degree

So you run away when you are questioned and asked to prove what you state and someone questions your reasoning. Truth is you DO NOT CHOSE to ignore me. The TRUTH is you realise that you have nothing to support your arguments or even you way of reasoning with matters of faith. I bear no ill will or feeling. Enjoy your break. Would be useful to concentrate on what you wrote and why you could not answer.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Littleroses

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1583 on: June 07, 2020, 02:45:44 PM »
What have you got to support your arguments, Sass?
Let your sorrows travel away on the wind, your joys ride on the clouds and your love mingle with the sunbeams. RJG

Outrider

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1584 on: June 08, 2020, 08:42:21 AM »
The reason I don't see any difference is that I don't believe two gay men can marry.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2013/30/contents  It's fairly clear that they can, here's a link to the text of the parliamentary act that made it so.

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I've explained this in #61 on the gay marriage thread: marriage is, always has been and always will be a contract for a man and a woman.

And even a cursory glance at history will show that this is absolute nonsense.  At the height of Christian power in the European middle ages marriage was a contract between a husband and his father-in-law (or potential bride's other male guardian/governor).  Marriage throughout the Islamic world involves a man and up to four wives, marriage in various places around the world has been between gay people in the past.   Christianity (or its predecessor, Judaism) did not 'invent' the concept of marriage, nor is it solely from those traditions that the world gets influences on the concept.

If you choose to cleave to a particular interpretation of marriage based upon your take on Christian scripture and history that's fine, but it's pure arrogance to assume that your selective interpretation applies to anyone else who doesn't also choose it for themselves.

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But the point is, I believe homosexual sex, like unmarried sex, to be wrong, and I don't have to sell it in my business if I don't want to.[/qoute]

And, again, what you choose to believe is up to you right up until it starts to impact on other people's lives - we, as a society, have decided that you can believe whatever nonsense you like, but you have to act reasonably.  Denying people service because of your particular interpretation of religious texts is something we've collectively decided isn't acceptable.

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This might offend a customer, but it isn't victimization and it doesn't harm him, though he may pretend it does.

If it offends, it harms.  If it's targetted at a particular group - as this very obviously is - then it's victimization.

What you need to remember here is that your religious beliefs are a choice; people's sexuality isn't.

O.
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Wilkins Micawber

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1585 on: June 28, 2020, 06:51:32 AM »
Were the B&B owners being required to campaign for gay rights?
No, but then, they weren't refusing the gay couple accommodation, only a double bed, because that would be specifically facilitating what they disapprove of, i.e. gay sex. Doctors refusing to treat patients because they disapprove of their lifestyle is not a valid analogy.
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Littleroses

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1586 on: June 28, 2020, 08:49:07 AM »
No, but then, they weren't refusing the gay couple accommodation, only a double bed, because that would be specifically facilitating what they disapprove of, i.e. gay sex. Doctors refusing to treat patients because they disapprove of their lifestyle is not a valid analogy.

A gay couple have as much right to a double bed as a heterosexual couple. Anti-gay bigots should NOT be running a guest house. It is as bad as refusing to let a couple, one of whom is black and the other white, have a double bed because one doesn't approve of mixed race marriages. >:(
Let your sorrows travel away on the wind, your joys ride on the clouds and your love mingle with the sunbeams. RJG

Gordon

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1587 on: June 28, 2020, 09:39:47 AM »
No, but then, they weren't refusing the gay couple accommodation, only a double bed, because that would be specifically facilitating what they disapprove of, i.e. gay sex. Doctors refusing to treat patients because they disapprove of their lifestyle is not a valid analogy.

It seems valid to me: these doctors would be denying certain patients access to the full range of the medical services they offer based on their (the doctors) personal disapproval of certain specific aspects of the personal characteristics of these patients. 

Littleroses

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1588 on: June 28, 2020, 10:19:20 AM »
It seems valid to me: these doctors would be denying certain patients access to the full range of the medical services they offer based on their (the doctors) personal disapproval of certain specific aspects of the personal characteristics of these patients.

I think it is valid too.
Let your sorrows travel away on the wind, your joys ride on the clouds and your love mingle with the sunbeams. RJG

Trentvoyager

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1589 on: June 28, 2020, 11:30:56 AM »
All you have done Steve is make it clear you are in favour of upholding discrimination against homosexuals.

If you do believe this is acceptable you have to allow everybody else the opportunity to act on their prejudices.

I'm not going to swear but you really make me want to. You devalue every gay persons life with this attitude, I despise it.
For those of you complaining that gay people stole the rainbow. DO not worry. Rain is next. Then sunshine. The moon is already a lesbian.

Wilkins Micawber

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1590 on: June 28, 2020, 11:36:58 AM »
All you have done Steve is make it clear you are in favour of upholding discrimination against homosexuals.

If you do believe this is acceptable you have to allow everybody else the opportunity to act on their prejudices.

I'm not going to swear but you really make me want to. You devalue every gay persons life with this attitude, I despise it.
Read my post again: all I was doing was pointing out the invalidity of the analogy. I don't agree with the B&B owners' actions or attitude.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1591 on: June 28, 2020, 11:52:23 AM »
Read my post again: all I was doing was pointing out the invalidity of the analogy. I don't agree with the B&B owners' actions or attitude.
And yet your position is that there should be religious based exemptions allowing for discrimination.

Littleroses

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1592 on: June 28, 2020, 11:54:44 AM »
All you have done Steve is make it clear you are in favour of upholding discrimination against homosexuals.

If you do believe this is acceptable you have to allow everybody else the opportunity to act on their prejudices.

I'm not going to swear but you really make me want to. You devalue every gay persons life with this attitude, I despise it.

I agree with you, I despise his attitude too.
Let your sorrows travel away on the wind, your joys ride on the clouds and your love mingle with the sunbeams. RJG

Trentvoyager

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1593 on: June 28, 2020, 12:35:30 PM »
Read my post again: all I was doing was pointing out the invalidity of the analogy. I don't agree with the B&B owners' actions or attitude.

Read my post. Will you allow equality of discrimination?
For those of you complaining that gay people stole the rainbow. DO not worry. Rain is next. Then sunshine. The moon is already a lesbian.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1594 on: June 28, 2020, 01:40:18 PM »
You are obviously determined to be outraged, whatever I say, so I don't think I'll bother replying any more. As for JJ. she really is one of the biggest bigots on this forum. She's just flounced yet again from the other one, because some people had the nerve to disagree with her.
Nice to see you take a position that religious people should have some ability to discriminate against gay people, and when a gay person challenged you on it tell them off and imply that they are lying about being outraged, and indulge in a piece of irrelevant whataboutery about someone else's actions on a different board.



Trentvoyager

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1595 on: June 28, 2020, 03:17:14 PM »
You are obviously determined to be outraged, whatever I say, so I don't think I'll bother replying any more. As for JJ. she really is one of the biggest bigots on this forum. She's just flounced yet again from the other one, because some people had the nerve to disagree with her.

NO idea about LR flouncing elsewhere, that's entirely her decision and right, don't see the relevance here.

If you insist on supporting prejudice against me do you really think I am just going to stay quiet?

If so you sound to be operating in much the same way that you claim LR is doing.

That is, hiding when challenged.
For those of you complaining that gay people stole the rainbow. DO not worry. Rain is next. Then sunshine. The moon is already a lesbian.

Gordon

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1596 on: June 30, 2020, 08:41:48 AM »
Moderator:

Please note that several recent posts have been removed since they involved discussion of events in another Forum, and included references to the activities of identifiable people who aren't actively posting here: this Forum should not be used to rehearse issues occurring elsewhere.

Littleroses

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1597 on: June 30, 2020, 09:23:16 AM »
Sorry Gordon. :-[
Let your sorrows travel away on the wind, your joys ride on the clouds and your love mingle with the sunbeams. RJG

Wilkins Micawber

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1598 on: June 30, 2020, 09:55:06 AM »
Oops - sorry. Should've known not to.
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Wilkins Micawber

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Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Reply #1599 on: June 30, 2020, 09:59:05 AM »
NO idea about LR flouncing elsewhere, that's entirely her decision and right, don't see the relevance here.

If you insist on supporting prejudice against me do you really think I am just going to stay quiet?

If so you sound to be operating in much the same way that you claim LR is doing.

That is, hiding when challenged.
I don't support the prejudice against you (or anyone). I do, within narrow limits, support the right of people to be prejudiced, which is not the same thing.
"Comment is free, but facts are sacred" - CP Scott
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts" - Daniel Moynihan