The Joshua Tree voted best album of 1980s

[Nearly Sane]

I don't even think it's U2's best album of the 80s

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/entertainment-arts-54467937?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR0tOsAkP08hj6MuussIjBvtvxXyJ2Oe5FBEN-2Mbd-MxBvgBkuQEFM5JFA

[Aruntraveller]

Hmmm.....never really understood the reverence for their body of work. But it's all subjective I suppose.

For my money at least two albums were better:

Brothers in Arms - Dire Straits

Graceland - Paul Simon (and that's not even his best album of the 80's - so that makes three!)

[Nearly Sane]

Hmmm.....never really understood the reverence for their body of work. But it's all subjective I suppose.

For my money at least two albums were better:

Brothers in Arms - Dire Straits

Graceland - Paul Simon (and that's not even his best album of the 80's - so that makes three!)

which appear at 2 and 8 on the list.

[Aruntraveller]

Indeed.

This thread also triggered another memory about the Pet Shop Boys and their version of "Where the Streets..."

Details here:

http://www.geowayne.com/newDesign/discography/streets.htm

The other Paul Simon album was "Hearts & Bones". Any album that has a song with the title "Rene & Georgette Magritte with their Dog after the War" should automatically go to number 1 in any chart. 

[jeremyp]

I don't even think it's U2's best album of the 80s

That reminds me of a clip I saw on telly about Sergeant Pepper. The presenter asked "is it the best album ever?" And one of the guests said "it was released in the same year as The Velvet Underground and Nico. It's not even the best album of 1967".

[Nearly Sane]

It's a difficult choice for me and it would depend on my mood - but possibles include High Land Hard Rain by Aztec Camera, The Hounds of Love by Kate Bush, Sons and Fascination/Sister Feelings Call by Simple Minds, Sapphire by John Martyn, and Steve McQueen by Prefab Sprout

[ProfessorDavey]

Hmmm.....never really understood the reverence for their body of work. But it's all subjective I suppose.

For my money at least two albums were better:

Brothers in Arms - Dire Straits

Graceland - Paul Simon (and that's not even his best album of the 80's - so that makes three!)

From the list provided in the poll, I'd have gone for Joshua Tree, or possibly Sign of the Times.

Graceland is great musically, but I think the criticism that he nicked it all from African artists in a kind of cultural appropriation and colonialism, without necessarily fully attributing their contribution, nor overtly recognising their political plight in the record possibly still leave a sour taste in the mouth.

Brothers in Arms - sold by the bucketload, pile of cack and hasn't worn well (still sounds like a marketing product for that new-fangled cd-thingy). In my opinion 3rd best Dire Straits album of the 1980s - oh by the way they only produced three, unless you count the live one, in which case it is the 4th best album they produced in the 1980s.

[ProfessorDavey]

Steve McQueen by Prefab Sprout

Fantastic right up there.

[Aruntraveller]

Graceland is great musically, but I think the criticism that he nicked it all from African artists in a kind of cultural appropriation and colonialism, without necessarily fully attributing their contribution, nor overtly recognising their political plight in the record possibly still leave a sour taste in the mouth.

I think your analysis is incorrect there:

Ladysmith Black Mambazo first achieved international attention when the American singer and songwriter Paul Simon employed them on his hugely successful 1986 album Graceland and subsequent world tour. Paradoxically, because Simon visited South Africa to meet Shabalala (and other African musicians) – so breaking the cultural boycott – he faced vocal criticism from anti-apartheid campaigners. Shabalala himself said that, by breaking the boycott, Simon had helped black South Africans in their struggle. Independent.

Shabalala wasn't alone in this belief, Hugh Masekela was of a similar opinion.

Now you can argue, quite successfully, that a white American man should not be the one that brings this music to the world, but he did. And possibly just hastened by a tad, the change in attitudes that brought about the downfall of apartheid. We will never know of course, but I think accusations of cultural appropriation are not helpful. Did The Beatles and Stones appropriate black music? Of course they did. Would we have it any other way. Of course we wouldn't.

[ProfessorDavey]

I think your analysis is incorrect there:

Ladysmith Black Mambazo first achieved international attention when the American singer and songwriter Paul Simon employed them on his hugely successful 1986 album Graceland and subsequent world tour. Paradoxically, because Simon visited South Africa to meet Shabalala (and other African musicians) – so breaking the cultural boycott – he faced vocal criticism from anti-apartheid campaigners. Shabalala himself said that, by breaking the boycott, Simon had helped black South Africans in their struggle. Independent.

Shabalala wasn't alone in this belief, Hugh Masekela was of a similar opinion.

Now you can argue, quite successfully, that a white American man should not be the one that brings this music to the world, but he did. And possibly just hastened by a tad, the change in attitudes that brought about the downfall of apartheid. We will never know of course, but I think accusations of cultural appropriation are not helpful. Did The Beatles and Stones appropriate black music? Of course they did. Would we have it any other way. Of course we wouldn't.

My point was that Graceland was highly controversial when it came out and this necessarily distracted from its musical qualities - there will be some people now and then who cannot see beyond the political angle of the album and therefore are unable to see it as 'great'. I'm not saying I agree, merely that this may be a reason why it doesn't rank higher.

For the record criticism and controversy include:

1. Cultural appropriation - white guy goes to Africa, uses their cultural musical heritage, adds his own layer over it, often including lyrics which have nothing to do with that culture - earns a ton of money and critical acclaim.

2. Not all the artists were properly attributed - sure some where and attained fame, but others weren't. He was accused on plagiarism

3. Many criticised Simon for insensitivity and naivety of the political system or indeed went further to say he was breaking the boycott of apartheid-era South Africa. He was openly accused of undermining the fight against apartheid.

4. This criticism was compounded by the fact that the album lyrically says nothing about the struggle of those people.

5. He was encouraged to work through the anti-apartheid political channels, indeed he was specifically advised to talk to the ANC but chose not to do so.

6. He included artists that had overtly broken the UN cultural boycott of South Africa - most obviously Linda Rondstadt who played Sun City against the boycott.

[ProfessorDavey]

This is the long-list you could vote for (I'd looked at it previously but could remember what was, and was not, on it).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2HXwW7yy2T2tw4YqlDXvBJZ/your-ultimate-80s-album-vote

ABBA - Super Trouper
ABC - The Lexicon Of Love
AC/DC – Back In Black
a-ha - Hunting High & Low
Bob Marley & The Wailers– Uprising
Bon Jovi – Slippery When Wet
Bruce Springsteen - Born In The USA
Culture Club - Colour By Numbers
The Cure – Disintegration
David Bowie - Let's Dance
Deacon Blue - Raintown
De La Soul – 3 Feet High And Rising
Depeche Mode – Music For The Masses
Diana Ross - Diana
Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms
Duran Duran - Rio
Eurythmics - Be Yourself Tonight
Fleetwood Mac - Tango In The Night
Frankie Goes To Hollywood - Welcome To The Pleasuredome
George Michael - Faith
Grace Jones – Nightclubbing
Guns N' Roses – Appetite For Destruction
The Human League - Dare
INXS - Kick
Janet Jackson – Control
Kate Bush – Hounds Of Love
Kylie Minogue - Kylie
Madonna - True Blue
Michael Jackson - Thriller
Paul Simon - Graceland
Pet Shop Boys - Actually
Peter Gabriel - So
Phil Collins - No Jacket Required
Prince – Purple Rain
Public Enemy – It Takes A Nation Of Millions
Queen - The Works
Sade - Diamond Life
Simply Red - A New Flame
The Smiths – The Queen Is Dead
Soft Cell – Non-Stop Erotic Cabaret
Soul II Soul - Club Classics Vol. One
Spandau Ballet - True
The Stone Roses – The Stone Roses
Tears for Fears - Songs From The Big Chair
Terence Trent D’Arby - Introducing the Hardline According to…
Tina Turner - Private Dancer
Tracy Chapman - Tracy Chapman
U2 - The Joshua Tree
Wham! - Make It Big
Whitney Houston - Whitney

Only one album per artist - so no 'Sign of the Times'

In many cases they've gone for the big-seller album than others that are perhaps more critically acclaimed and maybe have greater longevity. It is also very dominated by the mid mainstream artists.

[Aruntraveller]

Well, the boycott wasn't that successful was it?

If we are castigating people for appearing at Sun City then out go quite an eclectic mix including Queen, Elton, Boney M, Hot Gossip and the Male Voice Choir of Wales. To name but a few.

The only accusation of plagiarism I've seen was a while ago now and from an American band (name forgotten).

Lyrically Simon has never been known for being that direct. Boy in the Bubble at least hints at circumstances, Homeless appears to have dual meanings and may well have been used for that purpose.

As previously cited he was openly supported as having helped end apartheid. This situation, like music, itself, is open to many interpretations. I think the judgement of some like for instance Billy Bragg was largely self serving: "Look how right on I am". I think history will judge Simon fairly well on this matter.

"Graceland" is still not a patch on "Hearts and Bones" though. 

[Aruntraveller]

Oh I'd forgotten Super Trouper snuck into the 80's.

One of my favourites.

In fact the list just goes to show what a pointless task it is choosing a best album.

[ProfessorDavey]

Well, the boycott wasn't that successful was it?

If we are castigating people for appearing at Sun City then out go quite an eclectic mix including Queen, Elton, Boney M, Hot Gossip and the Male Voice Choir of Wales. To name but a few.

The only accusation of plagiarism I've seen was a while ago now and from an American band (name forgotten).

Lyrically Simon has never been known for being that direct. Boy in the Bubble at least hints at circumstances, Homeless appears to have dual meanings and may well have been used for that purpose.

As previously cited he was openly supported as having helped end apartheid. This situation, like music, itself, is open to many interpretations. I think the judgement of some like for instance Billy Bragg was largely self serving: "Look how right on I am". I think history will judge Simon fairly well on this matter.

"Graceland" is still not a patch on "Hearts and Bones" though. 

Opinions and hindsight - all perfectly reasonable.

But I come back to my point. When Graceland came out it was very controversial, for all the reasons I gave. There are people who at the time agreed with the criticism and therefore for every more cannot see Graceland except through the prism of that controversy, regardless of how much they might have liked the music. These people will not hold the album in their affections now, because they couldn't hold it in their affections then. Hence why it is perhaps lower ranked than it might otherwise have been.

For the record I'm not really one of those people - I liked the album when it came out and wasn't particularly concerned with the controversy (I was more interested in the music). I still like it now, but interestingly not as much as his next release, 1990s 'Rhythm of the Saints'.

[Aruntraveller]

Just done a quick tally I have 36 of those albums!

[ProfessorDavey]

Just done a quick tally I have 36 of those albums!

You are the ultimate 80's icon Trent (but not D'Arby).

Here's a question for you - how many of those 36 do you regularly listen to?

[Aruntraveller]

 

Aside from the aforementioned Graceland and SuperTrouper not that many.

Faith, Dare, Born in the USA, actually, Non stop Erotic Cabaret and Songs from the Big Chair are the only ones that come to mind. But it's all so much more fragmented now with Alexa ready to whip out a single song without having to fire the vinyl or CD up. I find if I want to listen to an actual album I have to make a real effort these days, sadly.

[Gordon]

No Tom Waits in spite of the wonderful 'Rain Dogs' in the 1980's - a Stewards Enquiry is called for!

Looking at the longer list posted by PD a wee while back, the only artists in that I'd bother listening to would be Bob Marley and Bowie (though not 'Let's Dance') - but then again I'm not a Radio 2 listener.

[ProfessorDavey]

No Tom Waits in spite of the wonderful 'Rain Dogs' in the 1980's - a Stewards Enquiry is called for!

Looking at the longer list posted by PD a wee while back, the only artists in that I'd bother listening to would be Bob Marley and Bowie (though not 'Let's Dance') - but then again I'm not a Radio 2 listener.

There are a whole load of albums from the 80s I rate far more than the ones on the list, but they tend not to have been as commercially successful as those included. And in some cases that involves other albums from artists on the list.

Effectively this is largely a selection of the biggest stars in the 80s and their commercially most successful albums.

There are very few that you might describe as 'ground-breaking' or genre defining. In fact I struggling to see many at all. I guess Paul Simon might be one, as it was one of the first albums to be considered 'world music' - another may be the Stone Roses, which really kick-started a whole new musical style.

[ProfessorDavey]

Full run down of the 'top 40' - noting that your only had 40 options to vote for - so poor Kylie finished bottom!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2bz2pyv12Hzwz6YWyygVFRT/your-ultimate-80s-album-revealed