Government narrowly sees off Tory revolt over anti-genocide trade deal law

[Nearly Sane]

Dear dog! I agree with Iain Duncan Smith!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55723163

[Udayana]

IDS is "venting" against China.

We need to take action against genocide by China and elsewhere, but automatic suspension of trade deals on judgement by UK courts doesn't seem a good way to achieve that.

[Nearly Sane]

IDS is "venting" against China.

We need to take action against genocide by China and elsewhere, but automatic suspension of trade deals on judgement by UK courts doesn't seem a good way to achieve that.

Why?

[Nearly Sane]

Because by doing so we "cut off our nose to spite our face"?

We cease trading with, say, China, and thus lose income that someone else will get and China just sticks up two fingers and tells the U K to piss off!

Absolutely no gain.

China has shown more than once that it doesn't really give a fuck what the rest of the World thinks of it!

Owlswing

)O(

 

I was asking Udayana why it was bad to give the power to the courts.

But as to your reply, do you think we should have traded with the Nazis if they didn't invade anywhere but just put Jewish people in concentration camps?

[Udayana]

Why?

a) Can't see why UK courts would be particularly qualified or have the evidence to judge whether or not events abroad constitute genocide. Who would bring the cases and how would they be defended?

b) I am more sympathetic to the amendment that IDS actually wanted, that such judgements should trigger debates in parliament to decide what actions should be taken. If we will be breaking trade agreements then we should ensure that the actions taken are legal, well targeted and will be effective. 

[Nearly Sane]

a) Can't see why UK courts would be particularly qualified or have the evidence to judge whether or not events abroad constitute genocide. Who would bring the cases and how would they be defended?

b) I am more sympathetic to the amendment that IDS actually wanted, that such judgements should trigger debates in parliament to decide what actions should be taken. If we will be breaking trade agreements then we should ensure that the actions taken are legal, well targeted and will be effective.

Who is better to determine a legal judgement than a set of legal experts? And it removes some of the power of an executive that is currently likely to be given a free rein with a minority of votes.


And yes, I agree with the amendment

[Nearly Sane]

Do you honestly think that if we traded with the Nazi's it would have made one iota of diffeence to what the Nazi's did in either option?

The Nazi's were, in almost all circumstances, totally duplicitous, they would say whatever would get them whatever they wanted at the time of speaking and not one day longer.

As Chamberlain found to his distress with his 'piece of paper' from Munich.

Owlswing

)O(

You didn't answer the question.

[Nearly Sane]

I did. You just don't like my answer.

Owlswing

)O(

  Then you would have been supporting with trade the Holocaust. Nice to know that's what you think is ok.

[Aruntraveller]

The Nazi's were, in almost all circumstances, totally duplicitous, they would say whatever would get them whatever they wanted at the time of speaking and not one day longer.

Just substitute Chinese government for Nazi in that statement.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Do you honestly think that if we traded with the Nazi's it would have made one iota of diffeence to what the Nazi's did in either option?

The Nazi's were, in almost all circumstances, totally duplicitous, they would say whatever would get them whatever they wanted at the time of speaking and not one day longer.

As Chamberlain found to his distress with his 'piece of paper' from Munich.

Owlswing

)O(

If enough countries refuse to do trade it has an effect. https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/trade-war-china-us-foreign-sanctions-on-chinese-firms-131733517.html

It just depends on whether consumers are willing to forgo Chinese products and pay more for substitute products from other countries that do not have China's access to cheap labour, sweat shops and concentration camp labour to keep their prices low.   

[Nearly Sane]

I do not in anyway disagree wu=ith this comment

So you would have facilitated the Holocaust by trading with the Nazis because you wouldn't want to cut off your nose to spite your face.

[Nearly Sane]

HoL says no


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-55911847?__twitter_impression=true