More Americans are shifting away from religious affiliation, new study finds

[bluehillside Retd.]

"About 30% of adults do not have a religious affiliation, six percentage points higher than it was five years ago".

Some encouraging news for a change from the US of A...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/15/us-religious-affiliation-study-results

[Walt Zingmatilder]

"About 30% of adults do not have a religious affiliation, six percentage points higher than

Of which Lawrence Krauss comprises 10% and Sam Harris a further 7%.

[SusanDoris]

Of which Lawrence Krauss comprises 10% and Sam Harris a further 7%.

That sounds to me like a very trivial reply. Do you think that the finding is so trivial? Such steps away from unscientific, totally unsuported religious claims is an important step forward.

[Sebastian Toe]

Of which Lawrence Krauss comprises 10% and Sam Harris a further 7%.

...beeaking news....recent evidence has been found that Vlad has shifted 62% further away from being humorous.





(Waits to see if the '..before it wears off' joke is dragged out in response, yet again!)

[jeremyp]

...beeaking news....recent evidence has been found that Vlad has shifted 62% further away from being humorous.





(Waits to see if the '..before it wears off' joke is dragged out in response, yet again!)

You'd think regression to the mean would make him more humorous.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

That sounds to me like a very trivial reply. Do you think that the finding is so trivial? Such steps away from unscientific, totally unsuported religious claims is an important step forward.

The idea that people are flocking to science from religion is delusional. First of all because, as the atheist Stephen J Gould pointed out they are different domains of human activity and secondly because they, like some of their governments are no longer following the science. Sadly, I think apatheism is antiintellectual full stop.

And thirdly, the rank scientism your posts embody is now passay.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

...beeaking news....recent evidence has been found that Vlad has shifted 62% further away from being humorous.





(Waits to see if the '..before it wears off' joke is dragged out in response, yet again!)

That depends in large part on Mr Gervais' current engagements.

[ProfessorDavey]

The idea that people are flocking to science from religion is delusional. First of all because, as the atheist Stephen J Gould pointed out they are different domains of human activity and secondly because they, like some of their governments are no longer following the science. Sadly, I think apatheism is antiintellectual full stop.

And thirdly, the rank scientism your posts embody is now passay.

Even though your post is largely incoherent waffle, you are correct that this shift away from religion is probably not about people 'flocking to science'. I suspect the reason is rather similar to why religiosity is declining in the UK. It isn't about people flocking anywhere, indeed it doesn't require a single person to shift from being religious to non-religious. It is all about the differences in religiosity between generations and old people (the most religious generation) dying and being replaced by young people who are much less religious, and won't get any more religious as they get older.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Even though your post is largely incoherent waffle, you are correct that this shift away from religion is probably not about people 'flocking to science'. I suspect the reason is rather similar to why religiosity is declining in the UK. It isn't about people flocking anywhere, indeed it doesn't require a single person to shift from being religious to non-religious. It is all about the differences in religiosity between generations and old people (the most religious generation) dying and being replaced by young people who are much less religious, and won't get any more religious as they get older.

This is all about argumentum ad populum, isn't it.
At the end of the day you cannot make people intellectually, emotionally or spiritually involved in either science or Christianity and on both counts they are are becoming less so.

[ProfessorDavey]

This is all about argumentum ad populum, isn't it.

I am making no such point. And argumentum ad populum is a claim that something is right just because it is popular. I made no such claim. What I did do is provide an explanation for why there has been a reduction in people in the USA claiming religious affiliation, I made no suggest that it means that religion is wrong or is right, still less any claim that god exists or does not exist.

Stop misrepresenting me Vlad.

[ProfessorDavey]

At the end of the day you cannot make people intellectually, emotionally or spiritually involved in either science or Christianity and on both counts they are are becoming less so.

There is clearly evidence from the USA, and indeed the UK and virtually all similar countries that the populations, overall are becoming less involved in christianity. I've tried to explain why, and likely it does not involve individual people turning away from christianity once they've reached adulthood in any great numbers. It is all to do with generational replacement (and why, leaving aside immigration, we can be very confident in predicting the trends for decades to come).

You have made a claim that people are becoming less involved in science. Evidence please. And of course I doubt many people were ever emotionally or spiritually involved in science anyhow. But nonetheless, can you provide evidence please that people are becoming less intellectually involved in science.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

There is clearly evidence from the USA, and indeed the UK and virtually all similar countries that the populations, overall are becoming less involved in christianity. I've tried to explain why, and likely it does not involve individual people turning away from christianity once they've reached adulthood in any great numbers. It is all to do with generational replacement (and why, leaving aside immigration, we can be very confident in predicting the trends for decades to come).

You have made a claim that people are becoming less involved in science. Evidence please. And of course I doubt many people were ever emotionally or spiritually involved in science anyhow. But nonetheless, can you provide evidence please that people are becoming less intellectually involved in science.

Certainly the growth of the antivax and antimask movement in the UK, the abandonment of science to new atheism by the likes of Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris.

[ProfessorDavey]

Certainly the growth of the antivax and antimask movement in the UK, the abandonment of science to new atheism by the likes of Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris.

Yet more non-sense Vlad. Growth implies two, or more, comparable data points that can be compared. I have no idea (and nor do your) whether had there been a pandemic in, for example 2011 whether there would have been greater or less people refusing to get a vaccine.

Actually the levels of trust in science and scientists has undoubtedly risen during the pandemic, but I don't think you can draw broader conclusions from incredibly unusual and crisis circumstances.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Yet more non-sense Vlad. Growth implies two, or more, comparable data points that can be compared. I have no idea (and nor do your) whether had there been a pandemic in, for example 2011 whether there would have been greater or less people refusing to get a vaccine.

Actually the levels of trust in science and scientists has undoubtedly risen during the pandemic, but I don't think you can draw broader conclusions from incredibly unusual and crisis circumstances.

Lessexpenditure in science in terms of UK GDP..

[Aruntraveller]

Lessexpenditure in science in terms of UK GDP..

Wouldn't that be the fault of the C of E. You know the Conservative party at prayer.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Wouldn't that be the fault of the C of E. You know the Conservative party at prayer.

What in an increasingly secular society?
I suggest that England's natural party of Government is more Eton than Eden.

[ProfessorDavey]

Lessexpenditure in science in terms of UK GDP..

In what way is that relevant to a claim that people (i.e. the general public) are becoming less involved in science or that people have less trust in science or scientists.

Oh, I'll answer it for you - it doesn't.

[ProfessorDavey]

I suggest that England's natural party of Government is more Eton than Eden.

You do realise that Justin Welby, the current Archbishop of Canterbury, senior bishop and principal leader of the CofE is ... err ... an old Etonian.

Had that slipped your mind Vlad?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You do realise that Justin Welby, the current Archbishop of Canterbury, senior bishop and principal leader of the CofE is ... err ... an old Etonian.

Had that slipped your mind Vlad?

Justin Welby is a twat.

[ProfessorDavey]

Justin Welby is a twat.

And yet you have regularly supported him being automatically given a seat in the House of Lords for no other reason than his position within a completely different organisation. There are no other people who gain their seats in the Lords automatically  through appointment to a position in a completely separate organisation. Oops, my mistake, there are 25 others - all bishops of the CofE.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

And yet you have regularly supported him being automatically given a seat in the House of Lords for no other reason than his position within a completely different organisation. There are no other people who gain their seats in the Lords automatically  through appointment to a position in a completely separate organisation. Oops, my mistake, there are 25 others - all bishops of the CofE.

Regarding Welby..........You can't win 'em all.
Like some Christians in the eighties I wasn't opposed to disestablishment, but along came the New Atheists and reports that members of smaller religious groups felt the arrangement to be a bit of a bulwark against active secularism and antireligionism and so I sympathise with that. I know you guys think your the good guys but you make people uncomfortable for all the wrong reasons.

[jeremyp]

This is all about argumentum ad populum, isn't it.

This isn't about non religion being right because it is popular, it is about religion being unpopular because it is wrong.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

This isn't about non religion being right because it is popular, it is about religion being unpopular because it is wrong.

I still make that an argumentum ad populum Jeremy.Have you hit the Liquers early?9⅝

[Steve H]

So what? Is truth decided by a popular vote now?