Critical thinking, Why? Because apparently I am rubbish at it.

[Free Willy]

To quote Cupitt
"I take the idea of God as something like a guiding spiritual ideal that you use to orientate your life by, God is our values, God symbolises the goal of spiritual life.

With all due respect, isn't that a bit like playing football without any goals?

[Nearly Sane]

With all due respect, isn't that a bit like playing football without any goals?

Since I'm not a non realist Christian I have no idea. SteveH used to describe himself as such, I don't know if he still does, but he might explain better 


I don't really care about the classifications in terms of non belief and differing types of belief. It's more where you are on the spectrum of prick and not a prick

[Gonnagle]

Dear Thread,

You know!! ( done in the voice of the Vicar talking to his son ) this old forum ( and yes it is old ) sometimes is same old same old but every now and then it comes to life, a little spark, a jewel, a warm fuzzy exciting feeling comes over me ( no Sandra Bullock has still not replied to my emails ), anyway, God as a metaphor, God is all in the mind, I am now a sexed up Atheist ( can I just do the sexed up part please ) and just to add, God is real as real as you and me but only realer, much more realer, but thank you gentlemen, this theist versus Atheist nonsense just got interesting.

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

To quote Cupitt
"I take the idea of God as something like a guiding spiritual ideal that you use to orientate your life by, God is our values, God symbolises the goal of spiritual life.

Dear Sane,

I will take that, for starters, but there was a time when the best place to start was saying what God was not, but I will need to look it up again, there is a word or saying for it, anyway on topic, this critical thinking stuff, is it not just Socratic discourse, Socratic thinking, sounds like it to me, should be called Socratic critical thinking yes/no?

Gonnagle.

[Stranger]

...and just to add, God is real as real as you and me but only realer, much more realer...

So now you're contradicting yourself. What a surprise!

Back to not knowing what the fuck you mean by 'God'. Ho-hum.

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Sane,

I will take that, for starters, but there was a time when the best place to start was saying what God was not, but I will need to look it up again, there is a word or saying for it, anyway on topic, this critical thinking stuff, is it not just Socratic discourse, Socratic thinking, sounds like it to me, should be called Socratic critical thinking yes/no?

Gonnagle.

I think the word you are thinking of is apophatic.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

Cheers

The Orthodox tradition of apophatic, or negative, theology holds that none of our concepts can properly be affirmed of God, who transcends all human concepts.

Gonnagle.

[Maeght]

Dear Thread,

You know!! ( done in the voice of the Vicar talking to his son ) this old forum ( and yes it is old ) sometimes is same old same old but every now and then it comes to life, a little spark, a jewel, a warm fuzzy exciting feeling comes over me ( no Sandra Bullock has still not replied to my emails ), anyway, God as a metaphor, God is all in the mind, I am now a sexed up Atheist ( can I just do the sexed up part please ) and just to add, God is real as real as you and me but only realer, much more realer, but thank you gentlemen, this theist versus Atheist nonsense just got interesting.

Gonnagle.

More word salad.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Maeght,

Thank you.

Gonnagle.

[Maeght]

Dear Maeght,

Thank you.

Gonnagle.

Anytime.

[ekim]

Dear Sane,

Cheers

The Orthodox tradition of apophatic, or negative, theology holds that none of our concepts can properly be affirmed of God, who transcends all human concepts.

Gonnagle.

..... often called  Via Negativa in Christian theology

St Thomas Aquinas [13th C Italian philosopher]  We cannot know what God is but rather what he is not.

Meister Eckhart  [13th C German Dominican Theologian]   There is no knowing what God is.   Something we do know, namely, what God is not.

St. Augustine  [4th C Bishop]    For when we aspire from this depth to that height, it is a part of no small knowledge if, before we can know what God is, we can know what he is not.

[Bramble]

   There is no knowing what God is. 

How can one 'believe' in something without knowing what it is one believes in? Apophaticism would seem to suggest that 'belief in God' is an oxymoron. Most theology deals with concepts about God but if these are inadmissible then such belief would by definition constitute idolatry. "Every religion is idolatry" (Cornelius Castoriadis). Was Jung correct to suggest that one of the main functions of religion is to protect people from the experience of God? Whatever the unknowable God may be, perhaps the dreaded atheist is, albeit inadvertently, closer to it than the faithful, lost as they must be in idolatrous fancies.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Thread,

A thread discussing God, what bliss

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

How can one 'believe' in something without knowing what it is one believes in? Apophaticism would seem to suggest that 'belief in God' is an oxymoron. Most theology deals with concepts about God but if these are inadmissible then such belief would by definition constitute idolatry. "Every religion is idolatry" (Cornelius Castoriadis). Was Jung correct to suggest that one of the main functions of religion is to protect people from the experience of God? Whatever the unknowable God may be, perhaps the dreaded atheist is, albeit inadvertently, closer to it than the faithful, lost as they must be in idolatrous fancies.

Dear Brambles,

The dreaded Atheists Are they dreaded

How can one 'believe' in something without knowing what it is

For me ( personally ) it starts with a man who changed the world for ever and ever Amen.

perhaps the dreaded atheist is, albeit inadvertently, closer to it than the faithful


Oh no!! Am I playing for the wrong team

lost as they must be in idolatrous fancies.

Aye! Atheists! All Heathens

Gonnagle.

[Stranger]

A thread discussing [meaningless word I won't explain], what bliss

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger, good evening to you.

You try to answer my question in Posts: 11374 and discuss these qualities/virtues and I will try to answer your question that you say I won't define/describe, deal?

Gonnagle.

[Stranger]

You try to answer my question in Posts: 11374...

In what thread? This one only has 40 posts. And posts, plural? You only gave one number. I thought Searching for GOD but that's running at 52127 posts.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

If you used this critical thinking that you keep throwing at everyone you would know as well as me that since man stepped out of the cave he has tried to define/describe God, never has and I don't think ever will, my very humble and also very weak definition, God is every best quality that any man can hope to rise too, the question I would ask you is, what are they?

Gonnagle.

Dear Stranger,

My question in bold.

Gonnagle.

[Gordon]

Dear Stranger, good evening to you.

You try to answer my question in Posts: 11374 and discuss these qualities/virtues and I will try to answer your question that you say I won't define/describe, deal?

Gonnagle.

Gonners

Have a look at Aristotle's  'Virtue Ethics' - you might find that useful.

[Gonnagle]

Gonners

Have a look at Aristotle's  'Virtue Ethics' - you might find that useful.

Dear Gordon,

Aristotle! I am more of a Socrates man but!

Virtues are acquired through habit and practice, not innate.

Is that right Mr Aristotle, what habits, what practices, whose habits and whose practices.

My habits and my practices start with ( only start mind you! ) one habit, one practice and that is the golden rule a man I know ( Our Lord Jesus Christ ) was asked a question, what is the greatest commandment but he didn't leave it there he went on to explain how you do the first commandment, by following the second greatest commandment.

Mathew 22 verses 37-40

Not a bad way to live, tough sometimes but very rewarding.

And I know what some of the replies will be, this rule is mentioned in many holy books and philosophies, and that is great, but I am a Christian✝️✝️✝️

Gonnagle.

PS: Good here ain't it

[Maeght]

Dear Gordon,

Aristotle! I am more of a Socrates man but!

Virtues are acquired through habit and practice, not innate.

Is that right Mr Aristotle, what habits, what practices, whose habits and whose practices.

My habits and my practices start with ( only start mind you! ) one habit, one practice and that is the golden rule a man I know ( Our Lord Jesus Christ ) was asked a question, what is the greatest commandment but he didn't leave it there he went on to explain how you do the first commandment, by following the second greatest commandment.

Mathew 22 verses 37-40

Not a bad way to live, tough sometimes but very rewarding.

And I know what some of the replies will be, this rule is mentioned in many holy books and philosophies, and that is great, but I am a Christian✝️✝️✝️

Gonnagle.

PS: Good here ain't it

Why are you a Christian?

[Gordon]

Dear Gordon,

Aristotle! I am more of a Socrates man but!

Virtues are acquired through habit and practice, not innate.

Is that right Mr Aristotle, what habits, what practices, whose habits and whose practices.

My habits and my practices start with ( only start mind you! ) one habit, one practice and that is the golden rule a man I know ( Our Lord Jesus Christ ) was asked a question, what is the greatest commandment but he didn't leave it there he went on to explain how you do the first commandment, by following the second greatest commandment.

Mathew 22 verses 37-40

Not a bad way to live, tough sometimes but very rewarding.

And I know what some of the replies will be, this rule is mentioned in many holy books and philosophies, and that is great, but I am a Christian✝️✝️✝️

Gonnagle.

PS: Good here ain't it

Have a look at Aristotle's 'golden mean', which is a bit more helpful that the so-called, and of little value, 'golden rule': you see I may not want 'done unto me' what others might want 'done unto them.

So at full time it's Aristotle 1 Jesus 0.

[Gonnagle]

Why are you a Christian?

Dear Maeght,

It's a bloody long list but here goes.

1. I was born at the centre of the Universe.
2. I was blessed by being born a jock.
3. My Mother and Father were Christian, but they did not have much time for religion, to busy putting food on the table.
4. I was sent to Sunday school but hated it, would much rather prefer playing football with my mates.
5. I was also blessed with an enquiring mind, favourite word WHY.
6. Being brought up in the centre of the Universe I was told to hate ( not by my parents ) members of the RC religion, as I grow older I asked why.
7. From number 6 I started asking what does God say about this nonsense.
8. I suppose that is where my love affair with all religions comes from.
9. The bad times in my life is when I walked away.
10. The good times, when I returned to him✝️

How's that for starters, call it indoctrination if you want, I am absolutely fine with that.

Gonnagle

PS: Sorry, 11, it works, I would thoroughly recommend it✝️

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Gordon,

So at full time it's Aristotle 1 Jesus 0.


It is 22.30hrs, I am supposed to be relaxing, not having fits of laughter old friend but thank you

I would reply, sorry the ref is taking it to the VAR, your goal may be disallowed not to familiar with Aristotle, will check him out tomorrow.

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Gordon,

This Aristotle guy, sounds very interesting.

The act of contemplation ( theoria ) is what is most pleasant and best. If, then, God is always in that good state in which we sometimes are, this compels our wonder, and if in a better this compels it yet more.
And God is in a better state. And life also belongs to God is that actuality, and Gods self dependent actuality is life most good and eternal. We say therefore that God is living being, eternal, most good, so that life and duration continuous and eternal belongs to God, for this is God.

According to Karen Armstrong Aristotle thought theologia discourse about God, was the highest philosophy because it was concerned with the highest mode of being, what I take from reading about this Aristotle is, the mere act of thinking about God brings you closer to God, sounds about right to me.

This Golden Mean.

The "golden mean" is a philosophical concept, popularized by Aristotle, that suggests virtuous behavior lies in the balanced middle ground between two extremes: excess and deficiency. It's about finding the right balance in actions, emotions, and character traits to achieve moral excellence.


Sorry Gordon but the Ref has disallowed your goal, good call, for me the golden mean and the golden rule can walk happily hand in hand, so still 0-0 but it is only half time, lets see what the boys in the commentary box say

Gonnagle.