Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Literature, Music, Art & Entertainment => Topic started by: Hope on July 13, 2015, 09:56:23 PM

Title: King Charles III
Post by: Hope on July 13, 2015, 09:56:23 PM
An interesting take on what might happen when the current monarch dies.  Mind you, it is 2.5 hours long!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b061fmty
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Anchorman on July 13, 2015, 10:07:05 PM
Whatever Westminster, Lambeth Palace or Chuck himself wants to call him, Charles 'III' he is not - just as his mum  is NOT Elizabeth 'II- regardless of Churchill's daft claim.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Shaker on July 13, 2015, 10:13:46 PM
Why must we have another one of these dysfunctional leeches?
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Anchorman on July 13, 2015, 11:07:06 PM
Agreed, Shaker.
The upper class version of Benefit Street needs sanctioned.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Harrowby Hall on July 14, 2015, 09:26:01 AM
Just a minor constitutional point.

Why do people assume that he will choose his own name as his regnal name? He doesn't have to be Charles III. He could be George VII.

Or Wayne I.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Shaker on July 14, 2015, 11:18:48 AM
I heard that on acceding to the throne he wouldn't take the style of King Charles III anyway, Charles having rather unfortunate associations for the royal family.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Anchorman on July 14, 2015, 01:06:56 PM
........and their so-called 'United' kingdom.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Hope on July 14, 2015, 01:35:58 PM
I'm afraid I can't see the monarchy being done away with for some time, whatever some here would like.

This programme was an attempt to look at what a monarch might choose to do under their constitutional rights as monarch.  Whether or not Charlie decides to be called Charles III or Alfred II or whatever is irrelevant to the story.  After all, it is 'before the event' fiction.

By the way, I do find some people's antagonism to the monarchy on the grounds that it doesn't represent them quite amusing.  The only part of the UK that has never had a national representative on the throne is N.Ireland, as far as I am aware.  In fact, it could be argued that both Scotland and Wales have have representative monarchs since the last English representative.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: floo on July 14, 2015, 02:18:01 PM
We are much better off with a monarchy who has no political power, than an elected head of state who has, imo!
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Hope on July 14, 2015, 02:21:06 PM
We are much better off with a monarchy who has no political power, than an elected head of state who has, imo!
Quite agree, Floo.  Imagine an elected Head of State with political power vetoing a Parliamentary Bill that has been passed by both Houses of Parliament!!
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Anchorman on July 14, 2015, 04:31:47 PM
Like many, I will not acknowledge or defer to an unelected, unappointed anachronism.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Hope on July 14, 2015, 05:27:45 PM
Like many, I will not acknowledge or defer to an unelected, unappointed anachronism.
So, you won't acknowledge your local policeman?
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Shaker on July 14, 2015, 05:29:52 PM
What makes police anachronistic?
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on July 14, 2015, 05:40:53 PM
I heard that on acceding to the throne he wouldn't take the style of King Charles III anyway, Charles having rather unfortunate associations for the royal family.
In Ireland he will be known as Charles de Turd.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Anchorman on July 14, 2015, 07:05:59 PM
Like many, I will not acknowledge or defer to an unelected, unappointed anachronism.
So, you won't acknowledge your local policeman?


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Policemen are appointed to the role by their superiors, having undertaken a course of instruction.
They are subject to scrutiny and discipline by their superiors - and elected councils.
This situation does not apply in the case of the Windsors.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: jeremyp on July 14, 2015, 07:13:39 PM
Whatever Westminster, Lambeth Palace or Chuck himself wants to call him, Charles 'III' he is not - just as his mum  is NOT Elizabeth 'II- regardless of Churchill's daft claim.

Yes they are.  The rule is simple:  you take the highest regnal number.  And it is just a number so stop getting your sporran in a twist.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: jeremyp on July 14, 2015, 07:15:17 PM
I heard that on acceding to the throne he wouldn't take the style of King Charles III anyway, Charles having rather unfortunate associations for the royal family.

I can understand why he wouldn't want to be a Charles.  Both Charles's so far were pretty useless... oh, wait, it sounds like the ideal name for him.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: jeremyp on July 14, 2015, 07:16:34 PM
We are much better off with a monarchy who has no political power, than an elected head of state who has, imo!

an elected head of state would have no political power (along the lines of the Irish head of state) which poses the question: why does anybody care that the monarch is not elected?
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: jeremyp on July 14, 2015, 07:18:31 PM
I heard that on acceding to the throne he wouldn't take the style of King Charles III anyway, Charles having rather unfortunate associations for the royal family.
In Ireland he will be known as Charles de Turd.

When I was at school, we had an Irish dinner lady.  We were called into the "dining room" by year so we knew it was our turn when she called on the "turd years".  My friend asked her what was for dinner one day and she said "third".
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Anchorman on July 14, 2015, 07:20:26 PM
Whatever Westminster, Lambeth Palace or Chuck himself wants to call him, Charles 'III' he is not - just as his mum  is NOT Elizabeth 'II- regardless of Churchill's daft claim.

Yes they are.  The rule is simple:  you take the highest regnal number.  And it is just a number so stop getting your sporran in a twist.


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So forget James I or II of the 'UK', then.
Re-write history to read James VI & VII ( not forgetting his son, acknowledged, but never crowned, as James VIII)
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 14, 2015, 07:22:55 PM
As a republican, regnal numbers are an irrelevance.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: jeremyp on July 14, 2015, 07:27:23 PM
Whatever Westminster, Lambeth Palace or Chuck himself wants to call him, Charles 'III' he is not - just as his mum  is NOT Elizabeth 'II- regardless of Churchill's daft claim.

Yes they are.  The rule is simple:  you take the highest regnal number.  And it is just a number so stop getting your sporran in a twist.


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So forget James I or II of the 'UK', then.

Neither of them was ever King of the UK.  Technically the earlier one was James I of England and VI of Scotland (or vice versa, if you prefer) and his son was James II of England and VII of Scotland.

Quote
Re-write history

I'm sorry, but that is what you just tried to do.  James VII/II lost the crowns in 1688.  The Acts of Union didn't happen until 1707.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Hope on July 14, 2015, 07:39:57 PM
As a republican, regnal numbers are an irrelevance.
Whether or not one is a monarchist/republican, regnal numbers have a historical relevance.  I appreciate that some here seem to regard history as irrelevant, but not everyone does.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Hope on July 14, 2015, 07:42:25 PM
I can understand why he wouldn't want to be a Charles.  Both Charles's so far were pretty useless... oh, wait, it sounds like the ideal name for him.
IIRC, the Charles's were Stuarts; with Scotland considering independence, would he want to associate himself with a Scottish brand?   ;)
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Hope on July 14, 2015, 07:44:43 PM
What makes police anachronistic?
I was thinking about the unelected and unappointed bits. 
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 14, 2015, 08:07:05 PM
As a republican, regnal numbers are an irrelevance.
Whether or not one is a monarchist/republican, regnal numbers have a historical relevance.  I appreciate that some here seem to regard history as irrelevant, but not everyone does.

For someone who talks about literary genres, you have a tin ear for normal expression. Besides I prefer the nickname classification Charlie the H******s, Charlie the S*****r, and Charlie the C*****d(er) asterisked as getting the forbidden error message
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Hope on July 14, 2015, 08:32:12 PM
Besides I prefer the nickname classification Charlie the H******s, Charlie the S*****r, and Charlie the C*****d(er) asterisked as getting the forbidden error message
None of that means that regnal numbers have no relevance.

By the way, I try not to refer to Charles anyway.  I'd rather the monarchy jumped a generation if it is to continue.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 14, 2015, 08:44:44 PM
Besides I prefer the nickname classification Charlie the H******s, Charlie the S*****r, and Charlie the C*****d(er) asterisked as getting the forbidden error message
None of that means that regnal numbers have no relevance.

By the way, I try not to refer to Charles anyway.  I'd rather the monarchy jumped a generation if it is to continue.

You still have a tin ear. The argument about which regnal number is 'right' is to me irrelevant. That isn't an argument about the relevance to history in any sense since this is meaningless to history, it's about worrying about things being 'right' which the position of republicanism precludes an opinion on. Useful/normally used are entirely different matters.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Shaker on July 14, 2015, 08:47:06 PM
Besides I prefer the nickname classification Charlie the H******s, Charlie the S*****r, and Charlie the C*****d(er) asterisked as getting the forbidden error message
None of that means that regnal numbers have no relevance.

By the way, I try not to refer to Charles anyway.  I'd rather the monarchy jumped a generation if it is to continue.
That's the thing about monarchies; it doesn't matter a damn what you'd rather see. You get what you get and you'd better like it, sunshine.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Anchorman on July 14, 2015, 09:09:49 PM
Whatever Westminster, Lambeth Palace or Chuck himself wants to call him, Charles 'III' he is not - just as his mum  is NOT Elizabeth 'II- regardless of Churchill's daft claim.

Yes they are.  The rule is simple:  you take the highest regnal number.  And it is just a number so stop getting your sporran in a twist.


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So forget James I or II of the 'UK', then.

Neither of them was ever King of the UK.  Technically the earlier one was James I of England and VI of Scotland (or vice versa, if you prefer) and his son was James II of England and VII of Scotland.

Quote
Re-write history

I'm sorry, but that is what you just tried to do.  James VII/II lost the crowns in 1688.  The Acts of Union didn't happen until 1707.


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Using your logic, then, Liz Windsor is not Lizzie 'II' of the UK, then - as there has never been a Lizzie I.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Anchorman on July 14, 2015, 09:15:44 PM
I can understand why he wouldn't want to be a Charles.  Both Charles's so far were pretty useless... oh, wait, it sounds like the ideal name for him.
IIRC, the Charles's were Stuarts; with Scotland considering independence, would he want to associate himself with a Scottish brand?   ;)


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Unfortunately, yes.
Chairlie has identified strongly with his silver spoon pal's hous....Dumfries House, which he helped raise £70 nillion to buy, thus enriching the already bloated coffers of Johnny Dumfries.
It's two miles from my house - google it, and, while your at it, Google 'Knockroon' - supposed to be Chairlie's Scottish Poundberry, but rapidly turning into a farce...like him, actually.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Hope on July 15, 2015, 12:26:33 PM
Using your logic, then, Liz Windsor is not Lizzie 'II' of the UK, then - as there has never been a Lizzie I.
As I understand it, Elizabeth Windsor is technically titled Queen Elizabeth in N. Ireland, Scotland and Wales, and only EIIR in England.  I think the problem is that the media tend to aggregate the UK and generalise and hence many of the population follow suit.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: jeremyp on July 15, 2015, 01:25:54 PM

Using your logic, then, Liz Windsor is not Lizzie 'II' of the UK, then - as there has never been a Lizzie I.

There has been a Lizzie I of England which is a constituent part of the Union.

ETA if we ever have another James and we call him James III then you'll have something to complain about.  Charles III or George VII won't be a problem though.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: SqueakyVoice on July 15, 2015, 03:58:17 PM
...

Or Wayne I.

Then the King's Christmas message could start with,

"Wayne One! Wayne One! Party time!  Excellent!..."
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: cyberman on July 16, 2015, 07:50:14 PM
Just a minor constitutional point.

Why do people assume that he will choose his own name as his regnal name? He doesn't have to be Charles III. He could be George VII.

Or Wayne I.

In the past he has said that he would use "George VII"
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Hope on July 16, 2015, 10:43:11 PM
In the past he has said that he would use "George VII"
This rings a bell, though I seem to remember a suggestion, whether by him or someone else, of Arthur.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Anchorman on July 17, 2015, 08:33:15 AM
In the past he has said that he would use "George VII"
This rings a bell, though I seem to remember a suggestion, whether by him or someone else, of Arthur.



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Wot - as in the dopey cat from the Kattomeat ad?
Good choice.
Although Benny from Top cat would have been better.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Hope on July 17, 2015, 08:37:21 AM
Wot - as in the dopey cat from the Kattomeat ad?
Good choice.
Although Benny from Top cat would have been better.
No, as in one of his given names.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Anchorman on July 17, 2015, 08:39:30 AM
Ah! you mean Arthur, after the so-called "Duke of Connaught":
Or Philip after the pillock with the mouth the size of a pit opening who sired him?
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Hope on July 17, 2015, 09:00:15 AM
Ah! you mean Arthur, after the so-called "Duke of Connaught":
Or Philip after the pillock with the mouth the size of a pit opening who sired him?
and which royal pillock are you named after?   ;)
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Anchorman on July 17, 2015, 09:15:24 AM
Ah! you mean Arthur, after the so-called "Duke of Connaught":
Or Philip after the pillock with the mouth the size of a pit opening who sired him?
and which royal pillock are you named after?   ;)


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James, brother of Jesus.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Hope on July 17, 2015, 09:20:52 AM
James, brother of Jesus.
So, how do you know that our Charlie wasn't named after the legendary 5th or 6th century British king? 
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Anchorman on July 17, 2015, 09:26:27 AM
Well, at least he was named after a potential Scot (if Arthur existed).
It would be just like the Windsor wasters to name their hope after a myth.
Title: Re: King Charles III
Post by: Hope on July 17, 2015, 09:36:31 AM
Well, at least he was named after a potential Scot (if Arthur existed).
It would be just like the Windsor wasters to name their hope after a myth.
It is likely that the Arthur that we see in things like Malory's 'Le Morte D'Arthur' and Chretian de Troyes' writings is false, but historians are divided on whether there was a king/warlord who acted in ways that would eventually become immortalised by such writing.