Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: jakswan on October 07, 2015, 10:12:48 PM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06g59c3/we-want-our-country-back
Documentary about Britain First party. Just starting watching, it started with one of their supporters shouting 'we are a Christian country'.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06g59c3/we-want-our-country-back
Documentary about Britain First party. Just starting watching, it started with one of their supporters shouting 'we are a Christian country'.
Yes Jak, and toilets have ''Gentlemen'' written on them when the word ''men'' is far more appropriate.
Secondly this hasn't been a ''christian'' country for decades.
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Wow you said something I agree with Srawboy!
Finished watching it, two sad individuals who are utterly deluded.
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Wow you said something I agree with Srawboy!
Finished watching it, two sad individuals who are utterly deluded.
Yes - I watched this and that was the conclusion I came to. The woman certainly seemed to me to be very vulnerable.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06g59c3/we-want-our-country-back
Documentary about Britain First party. Just starting watching, it started with one of their supporters shouting 'we are a Christian country'.
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If BF are Christian, then I'm a chicken curry.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06g59c3/we-want-our-country-back
Documentary about Britain First party. Just starting watching, it started with one of their supporters shouting 'we are a Christian country'.
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If BF are Christian, then I'm a chicken curry.
Strange. Of all the ridiculous shite they spout, their religious affiliation is something I'm quite prepared to accept.
O.
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Eh?
Exactly which Christ-like qualities have that bunch of neo-Nazis shown, Outrider?
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Eh?
Exactly which Christ-like qualities have that bunch of neo-Nazis shown, Outrider?
They believe in Jesus is the son of God, that makes them Christian.
O.
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A cat has for legs, my dog has four legs, therefore my dog is a cat?
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Sadly Christianity seems to host the sublime to the ridiculous and evil!
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A cat has for legs, my dog has four legs, therefore my dog is a cat?
If that's the only criterion you have, then yes, all quadrupeds are cats. What are the criteria for being a Christian? Where's the 'official' check-list? On what are we basing the judgment?
What is more defining for Christianity than accepting that Jesus is the son of God?
O.
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Depends who you ask.
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Eh?
Exactly which Christ-like qualities have that bunch of neo-Nazis shown, Outrider?
I know some Christians who are nationalist.
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Eh?
Exactly which Christ-like qualities have that bunch of neo-Nazis shown, Outrider?
They believe in Jesus is the son of God, that makes them Christian.
O.
"By this shall all men know that you are My disciples...that you love one another."
"Love your neighbour as you love yourself."
"Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors."
"Turn the other cheek"
"For as much as you did these things to these, the least of My brothers, you did them for Me".....
Jesus Christ.
Qualities the BF seem to lack in abundance.
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Eh?
Exactly which Christ-like qualities have that bunch of neo-Nazis shown, Outrider?
I know some Christians who are nationalist.
And I know many Christians who are both nationalist and internationalist.
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Eh?
Exactly which Christ-like qualities have that bunch of neo-Nazis shown, Outrider?
They believe in Jesus is the son of God, that makes them Christian.
O.
"By this shall all men know that you are My disciples...that you love one another."
"Love your neighbour as you love yourself."
"Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors."
"Turn the other cheek"
"For as much as you did these things to these, the least of My brothers, you did them for Me".....
Jesus Christ.
Qualities the BF seem to lack in abundance.
And the Westboro Baptists, and the Roman Catholics... that's your definition of Christianity, other people would claim that your version isn't 'truly' Christian, and there's is.
From the outside you're all equally (in)valid claimants. How am I to judge which of you is genuinely Christian when I don't think the claim has any justification in the first place?
O.
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Eh?
Exactly which Christ-like qualities have that bunch of neo-Nazis shown, Outrider?
They believe in Jesus is the son of God, that makes them Christian.
O.
"By this shall all men know that you are My disciples...that you love one another."
"Love your neighbour as you love yourself."
"Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors."
"Turn the other cheek"
"For as much as you did these things to these, the least of My brothers, you did them for Me".....
Jesus Christ.
Qualities the BF seem to lack in abundance.
And the Westboro Baptists, and the Roman Catholics... that's your definition of Christianity, other people would claim that your version isn't 'truly' Christian, and there's is.
From the outside you're all equally (in)valid claimants. How am I to judge which of you is genuinely Christian when I don't think the claim has any justification in the first place?
O.
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I'd suggest that those who are not Christian judge those who claim to be by their adherance to not only the words, but the deeds of the one they claim to follow - namely Jesus.
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I'd suggest that those who are not Christian judge those who claim to be by their adherance to not only the words, but the deeds of the one they claim to follow - namely Jesus.
That's a judgment, perhaps, on whether they are 'good' at Christianity, but are bad Christians still not Christians?
O.
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Eh?
Exactly which Christ-like qualities have that bunch of neo-Nazis shown, Outrider?
According to the Bible, 666 is an evil number, and represents the beast, or the anti-Christ. But to Muslims, this is a holy number.Which interpretation do you choose?
Whatever is said makes no difference... God wins in the end.
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Eh?
Exactly which Christ-like qualities have that bunch of neo-Nazis shown, Outrider?
I know some Christians who are nationalist.
And I know many Christians who are both nationalist and internationalist.
Well one could argue 'Christ-like' qualities would preclude any form of nationalism. Actually I have no idea what 'Christ-like' qualities are so perhaps you could explain that first.
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Eh?
Exactly which Christ-like qualities have that bunch of neo-Nazis shown, Outrider?
I know some Christians who are nationalist.
And I know many Christians who are both nationalist and internationalist.
Well one could argue 'Christ-like' qualities would preclude any form of nationalism. Actually I have no idea what 'Christ-like' qualities are so perhaps you could explain that first.
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I'd have thought that any reading of the words, deeds and actions of Jesus would do the explaining for me.
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Eh?
Exactly which Christ-like qualities have that bunch of neo-Nazis shown, Outrider?
I know some Christians who are nationalist.
And I know many Christians who are both nationalist and internationalist.
Well one could argue 'Christ-like' qualities would preclude any form of nationalism. Actually I have no idea what 'Christ-like' qualities are so perhaps you could explain that first.
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I'd have thought that any reading of the words, deeds and actions of Jesus would do the explaining for me.
We'd think that, too, but then there wouldn't be thousands of different sects of the cult... and yet there are.
O.
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Eh?
Exactly which Christ-like qualities have that bunch of neo-Nazis shown, Outrider?
I think it's the Christian-like qualities of intolerance and bigotry...
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06g59c3/we-want-our-country-back
Documentary about Britain First party. Just starting watching, it started with one of their supporters shouting 'we are a Christian country'.
Can a country be 'Christian'? Can it be Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, Pagan, ...?
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06g59c3/we-want-our-country-back
Documentary about Britain First party. Just starting watching, it started with one of their supporters shouting 'we are a Christian country'.
Can a country be 'Christian'? Can it be Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, Pagan, ...?
It can be, where the fact that it has official faith which is written into the legislature, where religious figures are explicitly part of the political system and so on - currently I believe that means it's just Saudi Arabia and the UK... although I suspect ISIS would like to be included, but I don't think anyone's recognising them as a country at the moment.
O.
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The Vatican City is an independent state. They have a religious bloke ruling them.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06g59c3/we-want-our-country-back
Documentary about Britain First party. Just starting watching, it started with one of their supporters shouting 'we are a Christian country'.
Can a country be 'Christian'? Can it be Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, Pagan, ...?
It can be, where the fact that it has official faith which is written into the legislature, where religious figures are explicitly part of the political system and so on - currently I believe that means it's just Saudi Arabia and the UK... although I suspect ISIS would like to be included, but I don't think anyone's recognising them as a country at the moment.
O.
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What d'you mean by 'UK', Outrider?
As far as I'm aware, there is no estblished church in the UK.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06g59c3/we-want-our-country-back
Documentary about Britain First party. Just starting watching, it started with one of their supporters shouting 'we are a Christian country'.
Can a country be 'Christian'? Can it be Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, Pagan, ...?
It can be, where the fact that it has official faith which is written into the legislature, where religious figures are explicitly part of the political system and so on - currently I believe that means it's just Saudi Arabia and the UK... although I suspect ISIS would like to be included, but I don't think anyone's recognising them as a country at the moment.
O.
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What d'you mean by 'UK', Outrider?
As far as I'm aware, there is no estblished church in the UK.
No, there isn't, but there is in England. Not that I said an established church was necessary; representatives of the established church in England sit in the UK parliament, and the head of state of the UK (and Scotland) is the head of the established Church of England - it's not a good situation any way you look at it.
O.
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Who's arguing, Outrider?
Certainly not I !
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Who's arguing, Outrider?
Certainly not I !
Misunderstood the depth of your point :)
O.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06g59c3/we-want-our-country-back
Documentary about Britain First party. Just starting watching, it started with one of their supporters shouting 'we are a Christian country'.
-
If BF are Christian, then I'm a chicken curry.
Strange. Of all the ridiculous shite they spout, their religious affiliation is something I'm quite prepared to accept.
O.
Yes because that suits your confirmation bias when any sensible person could figure out that instead of appealing to a traditional national churchgoing position they could equally appeal to tea drinking, black cab, pearly kings, bowler hats, page three and buttered scones for tea.
''We are a Bowler hat wearing nation''.
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Yes because that suits your confirmation bias when any sensible person could figure out that instead of appealing to a traditional national churchgoing position they could equally appeal to tea drinking, black cab, pearly kings, bowler hats, page three and buttered scones for tea.
''We are a Bowler hat wearing nation''.
No, I accept their claim that they are Christians because I don't see any reason to think they aren't. It might wrapped up with a host of other world-view elements I find distasteful, but that's not sufficient for me to think that they are lying about it.
Why should their devotion to other antiquated notions be genuine, but their devotion to the idea of the Christian deity not be?
O.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06g59c3/we-want-our-country-back
Documentary about Britain First party. Just starting watching, it started with one of their supporters shouting 'we are a Christian country'.
Mr. Golding was a BNP councillor on Swanley Town Council. Swanley is a troubled industrial town just inside of the M25, Golding did little for his constituents, since being a town councillor involved attending meetings rather than demonstrations. He then left the BNP because he wanted to be Fuhrer rather than a foot soldier.
Golding & his chums rant on about Christianity simply as an excuse to be rude to Moslems, he and his gang attempted to intimidate a group of local Muslims who wanted to extend their mosque in Keston, an affluent semi rural village between Bromley Common, and Leaves Green. As it turned out the extension was refused by Bromley Council because of logistics issues, Golding & co made no representations presumably because they do not know what "logistics" means.
He & his chums are simply a bunch of unpleasant thugs, they have no connection to Christianity, and YES I and others have posted to that effect on the online edition of our local rag.
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What is more defining for Christianity than accepting that Jesus is the son of God?
I think that's the Nicene Creed in a nutshell. The teachings of Jesus aren't included.
Evangelical churches usually have a statement of faith that bangs on about divine inspiration and penal substitution. But the teachings of Jesus still aren't included.
The RCs have the whole Catechism, which at least has the 10 Commandments in it. Not so much about Jesus though.
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I think that's the Nicene Creed in a nutshell. The teachings of Jesus aren't included.
The Creed as given us by the Niceno-Constantinopolitan fathers was designed specifically to combat Arianism.
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The Church of England Apostles Creed.
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.
Amen.
The religion is NOT CATHOLIC as the word Catholic means 'univeral' church.
But the teachings of Jesus still aren't included.
As for Christ, of course to believe in Christ is to accept his teachings.
By statement of faith believing in Jesus Christ you accept he is the Son of God etc.
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That is not the Creed. This is the Creed approved by the holy councils:
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible;
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all ages, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made:
Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man;
And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried;
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures;
And ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father;
And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spoke by the Prophets;
And we believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins.
We look for the Resurrection of the dead,
And the life of the age to come. Amen.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06g59c3/we-want-our-country-back
Documentary about Britain First party. Just starting watching, it started with one of their supporters shouting 'we are a Christian country'.
They are bunch of nutters, and as far removed from decent moderate Christians as it is possible to be! >:(
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The Creed as given us by the Niceno-Constantinopolitan fathers was designed specifically to combat Arianism.
It is, though, generally considered to be the defining characteristic of Christians, given the wide disagreements on what Jesus' teachings actually constitute amongst the various cults and sects.
O.
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As for Christ, of course to believe in Christ is to accept his teachings. By statement of faith believing in Jesus Christ you accept he is the Son of God etc.
However, different people believing in Christ believe different things about what he teaches. Unless you have something more than your usual boldly asserted confidence about what constitutes the 'true' interpretation of Christ's alleged body of work, we'll have to resort to the idea that Christians are those people who believe in magic-Jesus rather than just a possible historical one.
O.
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However, different people believing in Christ believe different things about what he teaches. Unless you have something more than your usual boldly asserted confidence about what constitutes the 'true' interpretation of Christ's alleged body of work, we'll have to resort to the idea that Christians are those people who believe in magic-Jesus rather than just a possible historical one.
O.
You need to go away and learn the teaching about Spirit and Truth.
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You need to go away and learn the teaching about Spirit and Truth.
No, I need other people to stop going away and pretending like you can learn anything definitive about these ideas in the absence of any reliable or testable sources.
Instead, I'd rather people went off and learnt about being nice to people, accepting differences and a live and let live attitude; that's not just the hardline religious people, or even just the religious people, it's just people in general.
O.
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What's this? The rise of the Christian Provos? I wondered what the vicar was fiddling about with under his cassock last week! ;)
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What's this? The rise of the Christian Provos? I wondered what the vicar was fiddling about with under his cassock last week! ;)
Probably a choirboy.
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Probably a choirboy.
You've spoiled the joke now.
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What's this? The rise of the Christian Provos? I wondered what the vicar was fiddling about with under his cassock last week! ;)
Looks like we might get to find out... http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34940723 :(
O.