Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rhiannon on August 02, 2018, 09:53:04 AM
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A very touching film marred by the stupid headline. It might as well say ‘caring for a child with an illness’, which could mean anything from a tummy bug to leukaemia. The vast majority of MH problems are nothing like as sad and as hard as this and my feeling is that in continuing to put each and every kind of mental health problem under one banner we are just furthering the fear and stigma.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-45023283/they-deserve-life-to-be-happy-caring-for-a-child-with-mental-health-issues
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I would find it very hard to cope with a child with mental health issues, as opposed to learning difficulties like our two adopted sons.
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Why? And how do you define 'mental health difficulties'?
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As Rhiannon noted the idea that there is a simple thing such as mental health issues, and you address it in that way is just odd. With only a hint of joking, isn't being a teenager by definition having 'mental health issues '?
Speaking as someone who has had depression on and off from before the age of 10, I think my parents would say/have said that I was a mostly very easy child/teenager to parent, at some stages because of rather than despite the depression. (at least that's what I tell ourselves on the not too bad days).
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"I would find it very hard to cope with children with learning difficulties, rather than children with mental health issues."
Is that acceptable?
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As Rhiannon noted the idea that there is a simple thing such as mental health issues, and you address it in that way is just odd. With only a hint of joking, isn't being a teenager by definition having 'mental health issues '?
Speaking as someone who has had depression on and off from before the age of 10, I think my parents would say/have said that I was a mostly very easy child/teenager to parent, at some stages because of rather than despite the depression. (at least that's what I tell ourselves on the not too bad days).
How many parents even notice, NS?
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"I would find it very hard to cope with children with learning difficulties, rather than children with mental health issues."
Is that acceptable?
As a honest expression, yes. The question surely is can it be justified as based on any reasonable knowledge of mental health.
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As a honest expression, yes. The question surely is can it be justified as based on any reasonable knowledge of mental health.
Maybe as an 'honest expression' it is ok. But what it actually does is compares one kind of children with additional needs to another.
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How many parents even notice, NS?
That's sort of what I was covering with my tongue in cheek comment about teenagers. We like labels and miss the spectrum of behaviour.
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That's sort of what I was covering with my tongue in cheek comment about teenagers. We like labels and miss the spectrum of behaviour.
:(
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Maybe as an 'honest expression' it is ok. But what it actually does is compares one kind of children with additional needs to another.
Except surely on one level it is only about the person making it. I have found it easier to care for people suffering from severe physical illnesses, than those suffering dementia. It may be different for others but that's just reporting how it felt for me.
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Except surely on one level it is only about the person making it. I have found it easier to care for people suffering from severe physical illnesses, than those suffering dementia. It may be different for others but that's just reporting how it felt for me.
One thing I learned from my days on Mumsnet is that such value judgements shouldn't be said out loud, especially in the presence of parents whose kids have SEND of any kind. It's unfair to people who face judgement every day, especially the children themselves.
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One thing I learned from my days on Mumsnet is that such value judgements shouldn't be said out loud, especially in the presence of parents whose kids have SEND of any kind. It's unfair to people who face judgement every day, especially the children themselves.
Isn't that a judgement of people expressing what they find hard that makes an unfair judgement? When I found dealing with dementia harder than physical disablement, it's me saying that about me. I shouldn't be able to say that?
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"I would find it very hard to cope with children with learning difficulties, rather than children with mental health issues."
Is that acceptable?
Yes.
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Yes.
Why?
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Why?
From my point of view, I would find it much more challenging than a child with learning difficulties, especially if the child's mental health issues were serious.
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From my point of view, I would find it much more challenging than a child with learning difficulties, especially if the child's mental health issues were serious.
That's just repeating what you said as the reason. This is circular logic. It's a fallacy. As Rhiannin, asked what do you define as mental health issues?
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Isn't that a judgement of people expressing what they find hard that makes an unfair judgement? When I found dealing with dementia harder than physical disablement, it's me saying that about me. I shouldn't be able to say that?
Maybe this is irrational but it is a different thing when saying 'I couldn't cope with a parent with dementia' to 'I couldn't cope with a child with Down's' or whatever. Or maybe it isn't. What is being said about that child is a value judgement - that 'this condition' is so appalling to me that I couldn't cope with it. And people feel differently about their kids than they do their parents or loved ones. If your kid has an issue it tends to bring out the tiger parent in you.
I'm linking to 'Wouldn't Change a Thing' because I think it is the perception of a paediatric illness or condition that shapes what we think we can and can't cope with. I know that LR thinks that someone with MH conditions shouldn't be allowed to parent, for example, but most parents with MH issues do just fine. Her perception of what MH illness is skews what she thinks about parenting a child with a MH issue, which usually bears little resemblance to dealing with the kind of very severe illness in the link.
http://www.wouldntchangeathing.org
Which is kind of the point of the thread really - the misconceptions of what 'mental health issues' even are.
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Maybe this is irrational but it is a different thing when saying 'I couldn't cope with a parent with dementia' to 'I couldn't cope with a child with Down's' or whatever. Or maybe it isn't. What is being said about that child is a value judgement - that 'this condition' is so appalling to me that I couldn't cope with it. And people feel differently about their kids than they do their parents or loved ones. If your kid has an issue it tends to bring out the tiger parent in you.
I'm linking to 'Wouldn't Change a Thing' because I think it is the perception of a paediatric illness or condition that shapes what we think we can and can't cope with. I know that LR thinks that someone with MH conditions shouldn't be allowed to parent, for example, but most parents with MH issues do just fine. Her perception of what MH illness is skews what she thinks about parenting a child with a MH issue, which usually bears little resemblance to dealing with the kind of very severe illness in the link.
Which is kind of the point of the thread really - the misconceptions of what 'mental health issues' even are.
If a birth child of mine had developed an eating disorder, serious anxiety, depression or any of the other things considered to be a mental illness I would have found it very hard to cope with them. I would have given it my best shot of course, but would probably have been found wanting. I would definitely not cope with an adult who had dementia, like my late mother, for instance. If my husband goes down that route, like his older brother, I will put him in a home.
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If a birth child of mine had developed an eating disorder, serious anxiety, depression or any of the other things considered to be a mental illness I would have found it very hard to cope with them. I would have given it my best shot of course, but would probably have been found wanting. I would definitely not cope with an adult who had dementia, like my late mother, for instance. If my husband goes down that route, like his older brother, I will put him in a home.
Depression and anxiety are very different things from an eating disorder. The latter has the highest mortality rate of all mental illnesses.
What behaviours do you think a child with anxiety might have?
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If a birth child of mine had developed an eating disorder, serious anxiety, depression or any of the other things considered to be a mental illness I would have found it very hard to cope with them. I would have given it my best shot of course, but would probably have been found wanting. I would definitely not cope with an adult who had dementia, like my late mother, for instance. If my husband goes down that route, like his older brother, I will put him in a home.
Your have no clue about mental illness. That you think you could diagnose it shows that
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Depression and anxiety are very different things from an eating disorder. The latter has the highest mortality rate of all mental illnesses.
What behaviours do you think a child with anxiety might have?
Losing their temper BIG TIME over trivia, as I know for a fact, having experience of a child with anxiety whom I know well. I would have found it hard to cope with 24/7, as his parent had to do when he was younger.
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Losing their temper BIG TIME over trivia, as I know for a fact, having experience of a child with anxiety whom I know well. I would have found it hard to cope with 24/7, as his parent had to do when he was younger.
So actually you really don't know shit then.
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So actually you really don't know shit then.
What are you on about? I know plenty about a child with anxiety having looked after him when he was young.
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What are you on about? I know plenty about a child with anxiety having looked after him when he was young.
And yet you can't tell the difference between a panic reaction and a temper tantrum.
And anxious kids don't panic over 'trivia', they panic over things that scare them.
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And yet you can't tell the difference between a panic reaction and a temper tantrum.
And anxious kids don't panic over 'trivia', they panic over things that scare them.
You obviously don't know what you are talking about. He was diagnosed with anxiety syndrome when he was young. One of the ways it exhibited itself was by throwing a serious temper tantrum, he could do a lot of damage when occurred and had to be physically restrained.
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Anxiety syndrome?
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Anxiety disorders in children sometimes manifest themselves differently to those in adults. I can actually imagine how frustrating it must be for a child when they cannot express themselves adequately and no-one (adult) seems to understand, maybe are even cross or judgemental. That could build up inside and come out in rage. It takes a lot of patience, love and insight to care for a child like that who will feel quite ill and 'different'. They need to know they are loved and secure regardless.
Writing about that is making me feel anxious and weepy btw ::). I can just imagine how terrible it must be to feel that no-one cares enough about the turmoil inside to be bothered to delve beneath the surface.
LR you might find this article interesting : https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/anxiety-disorders-in-children/
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Exactly, Robbie. Anxiety disorders, which come in myriad forms.
There's a whole shit more to it than a 'temper tantrum'. A common thing that I've noticed is that other adults think the the child is 'acting up', when in fact they are out of their comfort zone and feel really scared. I can remember similar things happening to me as a child. For example, my grandmother wanted to go to the cemetery and visit my granddad's grave, but I'd never been to one before and felt terrified of what would happen, and of the sadness of the adults around me. So I got upset and I probably looked stroppy and entitled, so we didn't go and everyone told me how selfish I was. I hated myself for that for so long after.
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Exactly, Robbie. Anxiety disorders, which come in myriad forms.
There's a whole shit more to it than a 'temper tantrum'. A common thing that I've noticed is that other adults think the the child is 'acting up', when in fact they are out of their comfort zone and feel really scared. I can remember similar things happening to me as a child. For example, my grandmother wanted to go to the cemetery and visit my granddad's grave, but I'd never been to one before and felt terrified of what would happen, and of the sadness of the adults around me. So I got upset and I probably looked stroppy and entitled, so we didn't go and everyone told me how selfish I was. I hated myself for that for so long after.
I am not stupid Rhi, I am aware of the fact that anxiety disorders have a lots of different components to them. My grandson's anxiety disorder, more often than not, was displayed as a violent temper tantrum. Maybe you would like to challenge his medic and his diagnosis! Fortunately in his teenage years he is managing to control it, as he has studied his problem in depth and has worked out strategies, which help him to cope with it.
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I am not stupid Rhi, I am aware of the fact that anxiety disorders have a lots of different components to them. My grandson's anxiety disorder, more often than not, was displayed as a violent temper tantrum. Maybe you would like to challenge his medic and his diagnosis! Fortunately in his teenage years he is managing to control it, as he has studied his problem in depth and has worked out strategies, which help him to cope with it.
LR, I may be wrong here but from everything you describe I have had in my mind that you are talking about the grandchild that you have mentioned who has ASD. That comes with its own set of challenges, however high-functioning the individual, including anxiety, but it's a different situation to anxiety in a child without it. I'm glad that your grandson is able to control it. It is something that can be managed and even overcome, which is one reason why the stigma around MH and also conditions like ASD are so sad (I too have experience of both), although I'd like to think that things are changing.
If you feel uncomfortable about your private family stuff being discussed here you can ask the mods to remove theses posts.
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LR, I may be wrong here but from everything you describe I have had in my mind that you are talking about the grandchild that you have mentioned who has ASD. That comes with its own set of challenges, however high-functioning the individual, including anxiety, but it's a different situation to anxiety in a child without it. I'm glad that your grandson is able to control it. It is something that can be managed and even overcome, which is one reason why the stigma around MH and also conditions like ASD are so sad (I too have experience of both), although I'd like to think that things are changing.
If you feel uncomfortable about your private family stuff being discussed here you can ask the mods to remove theses posts.
Yes he has Asperger's too, but that condition appears to have granted him a very high intelligence so it isn't all bad at all. As I have stated before I think my husband also has the condition, that is probably why I was attracted to him as he was so different to any of the other guys, I had come across, when I was a teenager.
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Maybe as an 'honest expression' it is ok. But what it actually does is compares one kind of children with additional needs to another.
So what?
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Exactly, Robbie. Anxiety disorders, which come in myriad forms.
There's a whole shit more to it than a 'temper tantrum'. A common thing that I've noticed is that other adults think the the child is 'acting up', when in fact they are out of their comfort zone and feel really scared. I can remember similar things happening to me as a child. For example, my grandmother wanted to go to the cemetery and visit my granddad's grave, but I'd never been to one before and felt terrified of what would happen, and of the sadness of the adults around me. So I got upset and I probably looked stroppy and entitled, so we didn't go and everyone told me how selfish I was. I hated myself for that for so long after.
You lost my interest at "comfort zone", a tedious psycho-babble cliche.
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So what?
Because judging one set of kids as 'better' than another isn't a good thing. It's not a comparison saying 'these do this and these do that', it is saying 'these are acceptable to me, these aren't.'
A lot of people don't have choices over what they can and cannot 'cope with', especially when it comes to parenting. Additional layers of judgement aren't helpful.
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You lost my interest at "comfort zone", a tedious psycho-babble cliche.
Never mind. Why bother trying to learn something when you can be smug and self-satisfied instead?
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Maybe as an 'honest expression' it is ok. But what it actually does is compares one kind of children with additional needs to another.
So what?
"Mental health issues" is too broad a term. Think about it, you can't compare anxiety with schizophrenia. As Rhiannon said it's like putting a tummy bug and leukaemia under one umbrella.
You lost my interest at "comfort zone", a tedious psycho-babble cliche.
No it isn't, it's a widely used expression for many things and has been for a very long time. Work, play, hobbies, holidays, study, the company you keep. We all have comfort zones in which we are confident.
Why so curmudgeonly?
Never mind. Why bother trying to learn something when you can be smug and self-satisfied instead?
I think 'Not Genial Today' just got out of bed on the wrong side this morning.
LR sorry I didn't realise when you talked about caring for a child with anxiety that you were meaning your grandson. Thought it might be someone you just babysit for. You have first hand experience of a child with anxiety.
There are situations in which and people with whom I would not feel comfortable and confident. I'd make an effort but not make a career out of them.