Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Sports, Hobbies & Interests => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on June 14, 2023, 11:29:09 AM

Title: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on June 14, 2023, 11:29:09 AM
It's harder than ever this year to see a gap in the football year , but I'm using the Champions League final as the end.

So off we go again
Title: Re: Football 2023 -2024
Post by: jeremyp on June 14, 2023, 11:32:18 AM
So you decided that the Women's World Cup is in 23-24, not 22-23. Or are we going to have a separate thread?
Title: Re: Football 2023 -2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on June 14, 2023, 11:38:37 AM
So you decided that the Women's World Cup is in 23-24, not 22-23. Or are we going to have a separate thread?
I think a separate thread. My decision was arbitrary tonan extent but lots of football actually in the 23 -24 season will have kicked off by then.  The close season has been getting smaller for a long time and the timing of last year's World Cup made that almost impossible to see.

ETA - I was forgetting that I had prepared a Women's World Cup thread earlier

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=19666.0
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on June 19, 2023, 12:52:16 PM
Well the sackings have started quickly


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65951241
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Outrider on June 19, 2023, 01:39:55 PM
Well the sackings have started quickly


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65951241

Well, my crew seem to be plumbing deeper and deeper - we were building up managers who go on to bigger and better things for a while. Martinez went on Belgium, Paolo Suze to Serie A, Brendan Rogers to Liverpool and Celtic, and then we took on a few managers who'd already achieved to take us further - Guidolin, Bob Bradley, and then back to people on the way up - Graham Potter, Steve Cooper.

This season? Russell Martin's jumping ship to go to a club who've just been relegated to the same league as us, and we're looking at a guy who just failed to get a team out of League 1....

They do make it hard to keep supporting, sometimes.

O.
Title: Re: Football 2023 -2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on June 20, 2023, 10:35:54 AM
Not a 'sacking' but another manager gone

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65956639
Title: Re: Football 2023 -2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on June 20, 2023, 10:52:34 AM
Bukayo Saka's second goal last night has to be one of the best in a very long while. Not just his touch, turn and finish, but Alexander-Arnold's quite astonishing pass. Sara said afterwards that Trent had said at half time that he was going to give Saka this pass, and boy was he right - a one-touch pass that Saka didn't have to break stride to take and must have been 40-50 yards.
Title: Re: Football 2023 -2024
Post by: jeremyp on June 20, 2023, 12:43:36 PM
Not a 'sacking' but another manager gone

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65956639
Interesting, but, frankly, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. If I were a manager that got my team promoted through the Championship playoffs, I would seriously consider quitting. Sheffield Wednesday is very likely to struggle next season and the manager will probably be the first casualty.
Title: Re: Football 2023 -2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on June 20, 2023, 12:52:13 PM
Interesting, but, frankly, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. If I were a manager that got my team promoted through the Championship playoffs, I would seriously consider quitting. Sheffield Wednesday is very likely to struggle next season and the manager will probably be the first casualty.
Agree. I think that managers have in general been more 'loyal' than clubs, partly because they would have to give up the job  and if sacked they will likely get a bigger pay ooff. But if it's seen that they then lose cachet following a sacking, though that may be questionable, then the risk profile changes.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on June 21, 2023, 08:04:36 PM
Interesting stance from Neville, not sure it's feasible


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65956434
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 03, 2023, 08:19:40 PM
And Gerrard to manage in Saudi


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65889461
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 04, 2023, 10:35:23 PM
And Firmino moves to Saudi


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66105022
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 24, 2023, 12:09:02 PM
£259m bid for Mbappe from Saudi!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66291108
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 24, 2023, 12:54:22 PM
£259m bid for Mbappe from Saudi!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66291108
Crazy money - but I doubt he'll go. He's 24 and surely he's going to want to win more stuff in the big European leagues. A move to Saudi etc is surely what players do for big money at the end of their careers.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 24, 2023, 01:31:44 PM
Crazy money - but I doubt he'll go. He's 24 and surely he's going to want to win more stuff in the big European leagues. A move to Saudi etc is surely what players do for big money at the end of their careers.
I tend to agree but it is being indicated that this is a 1 season contract. If Mbappe stays at PSG for a year until a free transfer to Real, he's likely to only add a Ligue 1 title.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on July 24, 2023, 04:14:25 PM
I tend to agree but it is being indicated that this is a 1 season contract. If Mbappe stays at PSG for a year until a free transfer to Real, he's likely to only add a Ligue 1 title.

He should move to Arsenal on a free transfer* He'll get all the games he wants and probably win the EPL, FA Cup and at least some European silverware.

*in my opinion
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 24, 2023, 04:18:52 PM
I tend to agree but it is being indicated that this is a 1 season contract. If Mbappe stays at PSG for a year until a free transfer to Real, he's likely to only add a Ligue 1 title.
I get the argument, but it wouldn't be locked on that Real would move for him in a year's time. He'd have been kicking his heals with next to no properly competitive football and there is always the risk of injury. The world of transfers moves on - a player who seemed to be able to command top dollar one year can find their value rapidly goes down (or up in other cases).

Certainly taking what would be, in effect, a year's sabbatical smack in the middle of the your career would be unprecedented.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 24, 2023, 05:23:29 PM
I get the argument, but it wouldn't be locked on that Real would move for him in a year's time. He'd have been kicking his heals with next to no properly competitive football and there is always the risk of injury. The world of transfers moves on - a player who seemed to be able to command top dollar one year can find their value rapidly goes down (or up in other cases).

Certainly taking what would be, in effect, a year's sabbatical smack in the middle of the your career would be unprecedented.

If it's a year's contract, he would be free to Real, just as he would be at the end of next year at PSG.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 24, 2023, 05:32:40 PM
If it's a year's contract, he would be free to Real, just as he would be at the end of next year at PSG.
Sure - but he's available now to anyone prepared to shell out serious cash, which could include Real.

My point is that if he spends a year as a performing seal (as someone else not so eloquently put it) that might count against him as Real may lose interest. Other great players are available!!
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on July 25, 2023, 10:04:16 AM
Sure - but he's available now to anyone prepared to shell out serious cash, which could include Real.
£260 million is more than serious cash.
Quote
My point is that if he spends a year as a performing seal (as someone else not so eloquently put it) that might count against him as Real may lose interest. Other great players are available!!
Are there any other players in Mbappé's class who are still on the right side of thirty?
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 25, 2023, 10:34:28 AM
£260 million is more than serious cash.Are there any other players in Mbappé's class who are still on the right side of thirty?
The rumours around the money he would be offered are almost incredible.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 25, 2023, 11:04:13 AM
£260 million is more than serious cash.
But it is only a theoretical offer - that PSG seem happy to accept is largely irrelevant, I mean why wouldn't they. Whether or not it turns from something purely hypothetical onto something real is entirely dependent on whether Mbappe is interested in stepping aside from serious football for a year at the height of his career.

While his agent may be rather keen on the deal as they will also make a fortune, there are likely to be wiser heads cautioning that clubs will note that this move would make it clear that he's more interested in money than actually playing for a club and winning trophies. Those wise heads will also caution that a year playing non competitive football may render him off the pace and not properly match fit for the Euros next summer. So by summer 2024 we could have Mbappe, whose performances have simply vanished below the radar for a year, who disappoints at the Euros and is clearly known (by his actions) not really to be interested in playing for a big club rather than for the money.

And let's not forget that Mbappe turned down the chance to join Real Madrid last year - presumably because his head was turned by the money. So it is entirely possible that Real's interest will go cold for a player who has already turned them down and shown that he isn't interested in maximising the chances or winning big club trophies at big clubs at the peak of his career.

Are there any other players in Mbappé's class who are still on the right side of thirty?
Err Erling Haaland just to name one.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on July 25, 2023, 11:42:30 AM
But it is only a theoretical offer - that PSG seem happy to accept is largely irrelevant, I mean why wouldn't they. Whether or not it turns from something purely hypothetical onto something real is entirely dependent on whether Mbappe is interested in stepping aside from serious football for a year at the height of his career.
PSG would be foolish not to accept such an offer unless they can extend his contract. If they don't accept such an offer and they don't extend his contract, he can walk away next year for nothing. They paid €180 million (rumoured) for him. €300 million would be a good return and could finance some really good players.

Quote
While his agent may be rather keen on the deal as they will also make a fortune, there are likely to be wiser heads cautioning that clubs will note that this move would make it clear that he's more interested in money than actually playing for a club and winning trophies.
It's just business. Players are often putting money ahead of club. Don't forget top tier players are accustomed to lavish lifestyles and will be retiring in their mid thirties. They need to accumulate a lot of wealth during their careers in order to continue to live in the style to which they are accustomed. Players often make decisions that are bizarre from a footballing perspective but make financial sense. For example, anybody moving to Real Madrid (or previously Barcelona) who isn't absolutely exceptional risks never getting a game. They do it anyway for the pay cheque.

Quote
Those wise heads will also caution that a year playing non competitive football may render him off the pace and not properly match fit for the Euros next summer. So by summer 2024 we could have Mbappe, whose performances have simply vanished below the radar for a year, who disappoints at the Euros and is clearly known (by his actions) not really to be interested in playing for a big club rather than for the money.

It might temporarily take the edge off his ability but it wouldn't be as bad as a player coming back from a long term injury and that happens routinely. If after a year he comes back with a price tag of say €150 million, there will be plenty of clubs lining up to sign him. He'll still only be 25 at that time.

Quote
And let's not forget that Mbappe turned down the chance to join Real Madrid last year - presumably because his head was turned by the money. So it is entirely possible that Real's interest will go cold for a player who has already turned them down and shown that he isn't interested in maximising the chances or winning big club trophies at big clubs at the peak of his career.
PSG is, or at least has been as much a vehicle for winning trophies as Real Madrid. They haven't won the ECL yet, but you wouldn't bet against them.

Of course, there's another possible motive for staying at PSG and that is that it is a French club and Mbappé is French. Footballers have made decisions based on geography in the past.
Quote
Err Erling Haaland just to name one.
Haaland is not in Mbappé's class. He's a top striker but he needs a good team behind him to provide service (Norway - Scotland shows us what happens when he doesn't get it). Mbappé is a much more complete player.

Side note: Haaland is qualified to play cricket for Yorkshire.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 25, 2023, 12:17:39 PM
PSG would be foolish not to accept such an offer unless they can extend his contract. If they don't accept such an offer and they don't extend his contract, he can walk away next year for nothing. They paid €180 million (rumoured) for him. €300 million would be a good return and could finance some really good players.
Of course it is a great deal for PSG - the additional bonus being that for at least one year they won't have Mbappe potentially playing against them for another team in the Champions League.

But PSG aren't in control of the deal - it only happens if Mbappe agrees to move. That's what you seem to be missing. If Mbappe says 'sure, I'll kick my heals for a year', then it is deal done. If, on the other hand Mbappe, says 'no', then the pressure increases on PSG to accept a lower offer from another club that Mbappe is prepared to sign for, or run the risk that he'll end up being able to go for free next summer.

The point being that Mbappe's signature (which is Mbappe's decision), rather than PSG agreeing a fee to sell is the key.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 25, 2023, 12:25:01 PM
Haaland is not in Mbappé's class.
Really - I think that Harland is absolutely in Mbappe's class and has made the shift from a small club to a big one competing at the top level astonishingly well. He's a different type of player, so to an extent you are comparing apples with oranges, but currently I think it is pretty hard to argue that Harland and Mbappe aren't in the same class.

Mbappe hasn't really enhanced his position in the 22/23 season while Harland has, frankly, blitzed it both domestically and in Europe.

Will be interesting to see who win's the various player of the season awards for the past year - suspect Harland and Vini Jn, plus possibly DeBruijn will be ahead of Mbappe.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on July 25, 2023, 12:26:47 PM
Really - I think that Harland is absolutely in Mbappe's class and has made the shift from a small club to a big one competing at the top level astonishingly well.
I don't disagree with the second part, but Mbappé is Messi/Nymar level. Haaland is not.


Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 25, 2023, 12:28:33 PM
Side note: Haaland is qualified to play cricket for Yorkshire.
So is anyone - Yorkshire dumped the requirement that their players had to have been born in Yorkshire years ago - in fact over 30 years ago, so before Harland was even born.

The more interesting point being that Harland could have played football for England.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 25, 2023, 12:33:08 PM
I don't disagree with the second part, but Mbappé is Messi/Nymar level. Haaland is not.
Again you are comparing apples and oranges - Mbappe is more of a Messi type player, but that doesn't mean he is necessarily better. Harland has been smashing records that have stood for decades - which I think is notable as you are comparing Mbappe with others who are still playing. Mbappe is, potentially, a one in a generation player of his type (albeit the awards this year may declare that Vini Jn, who is a similar type of player is currently better than Mbappe)  - if Harland carries on as he is he could easily become the best striker for many generations.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 25, 2023, 12:33:53 PM
Really - I think that Harland is absolutely in Mbappe's class and has made the shift from a small club to a big one competing at the top level astonishingly well. He's a different type of player, so to an extent you are comparing apples with oranges, but currently I think it is pretty hard to argue that Harland and Mbappe aren't in the same class.

Mbappe hasn't really enhanced his position in the 22/23 season while Harland has, frankly, blitzed it both domestically and in Europe.

Will be interesting to see who win's the various player of the season awards for the past year - suspect Harland and Vini Jn, plus possibly DeBruijn will be ahead of Mbappe.
If scoring a hattrick in a World Cup final doesn't really enhance your position, then you are on another level to Haaland.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 25, 2023, 12:49:09 PM
If scoring a hattrick in a World Cup final doesn't really enhance your position, then you are on another level to Haaland.
I meant in club football. You can't really compare their respective international records as one plays for a top side, full of other stars - the other for Norway.

His record last season for PSG hasn't really enhanced his reputation, has it. Again failing to get beyond the round of 16 in the Champions League.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 25, 2023, 01:20:48 PM
It's just business. Players are often putting money ahead of club. Don't forget top tier players are accustomed to lavish lifestyles and will be retiring in their mid thirties. They need to accumulate a lot of wealth during their careers in order to continue to live in the style to which they are accustomed.
Nope - as far as I am aware this is unprecedented. Sure - for yonks we've had players at the end of their careers signing for big money to play in uncompetitive leagues - e.g. Japan (Lineker), USA (Best and others). But this has always been a swan song move where players don't really mind playing in what are effectively exhibition matches, as they were making a bit of last ditch money before they retired.

This is different - Mbappe is at the peak of his career - do correct me if I'm wrong but I cannot think of another example of a top player at the peak of their careers making a move of this type.

Players often make decisions that are bizarre from a footballing perspective but make financial sense. For example, anybody moving to Real Madrid (or previously Barcelona) who isn't absolutely exceptional risks never getting a game. They do it anyway for the pay cheque.
Well, firstly I guess it is debatable whether a squad player at Real Madrid gets paid much more than a 'first on the team sheet' for Crystal Palace (as an example). But I think that in most cases players will think they will play when they sign (even if in reality they don't) - perhaps not hugely regularly, but sufficiently to get winners medals with Real Madrid rather than nothing with Crystal Palace. Now that may be a few substitute appearances - but the possibility of coming on as a sub for Real Madrid in a winning Champions League final might be rather more of a motivation than just the money.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 25, 2023, 03:07:51 PM
Seen elsewhere


There was once a lad called MBappe
Whose life at PSG was unhappy
So he left his chateau
And followed the dough
To a league that's no better than crappy
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 27, 2023, 01:37:58 PM
Mbappe not going to Saudi

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/26/kylian-mbappe-refuses-to-meet-al-hilal-officials-to-discuss-transfer-to-saudi
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on July 27, 2023, 02:05:59 PM
Again you are comparing apples and oranges
I think you'll find I'm comparing footballers with footballers.

Quote
- Mbappe is more of a Messi type player, but that doesn't mean he is necessarily better.
True, but he is better. If you had ten people for your team and for the eleventh you had the choice between Haaland and Mbappé, you'd choose the latter every time.

Quote
Harland has been smashing records that have stood for decades

That's because he is a striker. Most of the records are about scoring goals.

Quote
- which I think is notable as you are comparing Mbappe with others who are still playing. Mbappe is, potentially, a one in a generation player of his type (albeit the awards this year may declare that Vini Jn, who is a similar type of player is currently better than Mbappe)  - if Harland carries on as he is he could easily become the best striker for many generations.
Mbappé is 24 and Haaland is 23. Neither have reached their peak yet.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on July 27, 2023, 02:08:41 PM
Nope - as far as I am aware this is unprecedented.
Really? Players are always putting money before club. This is why they can be bought by Real Madrid and Barceno (well, not so much the latter anymore) despite being unlikely to get any much team football.

 
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 27, 2023, 02:11:36 PM
Really? Players are always putting money before club.
The unprecedented part (not that is is going to happen) would be a player at the peak of their career moving to a club in a non established league, that happens to have money. The current example is Saudi, but in previous times it was Japan or the USA. Top players have seen out the end of their careers in those leagues - and earning huge sums to do so - but I'm unaware of anyone doing so in the peak of their career.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 27, 2023, 02:23:54 PM
Really? Players are always putting money before club. This is why they can be bought by Real Madrid and Barceno (well, not so much the latter anymore) despite being unlikely to get any much team football.
So you are a mindreader then Jeremy - knowing exactly why a player might chose to move clubs. Remember that particularly now football isn't just a team game but a squad game so I suspect those that do move to the big clubs will expect to play a decent number of games as part of that squad rotation. And that may well be sufficient to win a host of winners medals that they'd have no hope of winning if they'd stayed at a small club.

Here is a good example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julián_Álvarez_(footballer)

He hasn't played all that much, but seems to be a key member of the squad. Did he move from River Plate to Man City just for the massively increased wages - or perhaps because he thought he might be a key member of a squad that would be playing in top competitions and could win a treble (as happened). Add to that the value of playing alongside the great players and top coaches that you get at a big club in terms of improving as a player.

Given that becoming a top player requires not only supreme talent but total commitment and dedication, and in many cases significant personal sacrifice (e.g. Messi whose family moved continents to give him a chance) I think it is insulting in the extreme to suggest that all players are interested in is the money.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on July 27, 2023, 03:41:43 PM
Yawn.

It's all moot now, but had Mbappé gone to Saudi Arabia it would be for a shed load of money and it would have been one year. There's no reason to presume he wouldn't be snapped up by a top club when he got back. In fact it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 27, 2023, 04:04:21 PM
Yawn.

It's all moot now, but had Mbappé gone to Saudi Arabia it would be for a shed load of money and it would have been one year. There's no reason to presume he wouldn't be snapped up by a top club when he got back. In fact it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise.
That he wasn't even prepared to contemplate that move (despite it earning him far more in the 23/24 season than he will earn if he stays at PSG, nor even if he moves to Real or another big club) rather undermines your argument that footballers are only interested in the money.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 27, 2023, 04:12:38 PM
Yawn.

It's all moot now, but had Mbappé gone to Saudi Arabia it would be for a shed load of money and it would have been one year. There's no reason to presume he wouldn't be snapped up by a top club when he got back. In fact it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise.
The Mbappe saga demonstrates that was PSG 'only interested in the money' not the player.

Out of interest if this is correct:

One of the bigger English signings of the summer - MacAllister from Brighton to Liverpool involves him taking a pay cut - £63k last season at Brighton to £48k a week next season at Liverpool.

https://salarysport.com/football/player/alexis-mac-allister/
https://salarysport.com/football/premier-league/liverpool-f.c./

He'll probably be less likely to play every game at Liverpool, clearly he isn't doing it for the money. Maybe, just maybe (whisper it quietly so Jeremy doesn't hear) he's making the move because he thinks he might have a better chance of winning trophies at Liverpool than Brighton.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on July 28, 2023, 10:37:47 AM
That he wasn't even prepared to contemplate that move
How do you know he didn't contemplate it? Now you are the mind reader.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on July 28, 2023, 10:42:19 AM
One of the bigger English signings of the summer - MacAllister from Brighton to Liverpool involves him taking a pay cut - £63k last season at Brighton to £48k a week next season at Liverpool.

https://salarysport.com/football/player/alexis-mac-allister/
https://salarysport.com/football/premier-league/liverpool-f.c./

He'll probably be less likely to play every game at Liverpool, clearly he isn't doing it for the money. Maybe, just maybe (whisper it quietly so Jeremy doesn't hear) he's making the move because he thinks he might have a better chance of winning trophies at Liverpool than Brighton.

Is that supposed to prove anything? Footballers move clubs for all sorts of reasons including financial ones. I don't know why you think that's a problem.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 28, 2023, 11:18:26 AM
Footballers move clubs for all sorts of reasons including financial ones.
Hmm - says the guy you previously said:

'Players are always putting money before club.'

Now you appear to have changed your tune to:

'Players are sometimes putting money before club.'

And if that is your view I don't disagree - but I disagree with your inference that footballers are all money grabbing sods always putting money before club.

And actually the Mbappe saga is exactly the opposite - he's refused to contemplate a move that would earn him far more than he is currently earning at PSG. And it appears he really wants to move to Real Madrid, and to do so he will almost certainly have to take a pay cut as Real are very unlikely to be able to afford the wages he is currently on at PSG (he is currently earning over twice as much as the top earning Real player), let alone what he would have earned had he been prepared to put money before club by moving to Saudi.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 28, 2023, 11:22:19 AM
Hmm - says the guy you previously said:

'Players are always putting money before club.'

Now you appear to have changed your tune to:

'Players are sometimes putting money before club.'

And if that is your view I don't disagree - but I disagree with your inference that footballers are all money grabbing sods always putting money before club.

And actually the Mbappe saga is exactly the opposite - he's refused to contemplate a move that would earn him far more than he is currently earning at PSG. And it appears he really wants to move to Real Madrid, and to do so he will almost certainly have to take a pay cut as Real are very unlikely to be able to afford the wages he is currently on at PSG (he is currently earning over twice as much as the top earning Real player), let alone what he would have earned had he been prepared to put money before club by moving to Saudi.
Just to help you out with your understanding of English


https://www.phrasemix.com/phrases/someone-is-always-doing-something
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on July 28, 2023, 11:34:27 AM
Hmm - says the guy you previously said:

'Players are always putting money before club.'

That's a figure of speech, it doesn't mean every single instance of a player transfer ever was done purely for money. I apologise if English is not your native language and that idiom was unfamiliar to you.

Edit: I see I have been ninja'd by NS.

Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 28, 2023, 12:40:54 PM
That's a figure of speech, it doesn't mean every single instance of a player transfer ever was done purely for money. I apologise if English is not your native language and that idiom was unfamiliar to you.

Edit: I see I have been ninja'd by NS.
Bit patronising.

Even with the idiom I still disagree as it still implies that this is the motivation in many/most cases, even if not literally always.

Top footballers get paid crazy amounts of money but I don't think getting even more money is the motivation for moving clubs in most cases. Players move to enhance their careers - that may be to play more, to have a better chance of winning trophies, to be at a club that will give them more opportunity to advance as a player. Being paid loads is, of course, a nice additional consequence but not the primary motivation in my opinion.

Don't forget that to even get to be a professional (let alone a top professional) requires years of massive commitment as well as talent. To imply that as soon as a player attains that level that money suddenly becomes the key doesn't really seem plausible.

Sure there are examples where player move primarily for the money, where the club they move to won't give them the other things I've described. But that largely seems to occur at the end of player's careers. So, yup, Jordan Henderson (age 33) has just moved to Saudi for the money (he's over tripled his wages), but I doubt that money, rather than the opportunity to enhance his career, win trophies etc would have been the prime motivation when he moved from Sunderland to Liverpool at the age of 21.

And if Mbappe moves to Real, or Barcelona, or Inter Milan, or Man U, or Liverpool, or even Man City etc, etc he will almost certainly have to take a pay cut as none of those clubs (even Man City) come close to being able to match PSG on player salaries.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 28, 2023, 12:57:33 PM
True, but he is better. If you had ten people for your team and for the eleventh you had the choice between Haaland and Mbappé, you'd choose the latter every time.
They are both forwards but of different types. If I lacked an out and out striker in my first 10 players, then I'd choose Haaland over Mbappe every time. If on the other hand I need a Salah type forward, well I'd choose Mbappe over Haaland. If I lacked a goalkeeper ... well.

That's because he is a striker. Most of the records are about scoring goals.
Mbappe is also a forward, just of a different type.

Mbappé is 24 and Haaland is 23. Neither have reached their peak yet.
True, which is why both look to move to clubs that will enhance their careers, make them better players, win more trophies etc. Haaland did that a year ago (and has been astonishingly successful with that move), Mbappe looks as if that move may be this summer or next summer.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 28, 2023, 06:44:01 PM
Juventus kicked out of European Conference League. And presumably Chelsea would have been too had they qualified.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66342566
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on July 29, 2023, 02:00:24 PM
Bit patronising.

you deserved it.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on July 29, 2023, 02:02:14 PM
Juventus kicked out of European Conference League. And presumably Chelsea would have been too had they qualified.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66342566

Quote
The Blues have spent around £600m on 19 new players since new owner Todd Boehly took charge of the club in May 2022
Wow. Can't say they got value for money.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 04, 2023, 07:14:30 PM
A preview of the league I am interested in the most.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66388728
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 06, 2023, 09:41:37 PM
It's going to be a long season


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66422652
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on August 07, 2023, 05:09:04 PM
Arsenal's first competitive game went quite well. Wrexham not so much.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 08, 2023, 08:34:00 AM
The giant killers of the Faroes


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66405575
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 08, 2023, 09:54:18 PM
The giant killers of the Faroes


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66405575
And KI Klaksvik win first leg against Molde 2 -1
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 09, 2023, 04:33:38 PM
Don't even need the season to start for managers to go.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66447376
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on August 09, 2023, 05:04:53 PM
Don't even need the season to start for managers to go.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66447376

To be fair, they knew Lopetegui was leaving some time ago. It's just taken a long time to appoint a replacement.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on August 10, 2023, 12:03:39 PM
That about wraps it up for Spurs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66412269
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 11, 2023, 08:58:32 AM
That is a lot of money for Caicedo

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66470820
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on August 11, 2023, 09:11:13 AM
Anybody want to make any predictions for the Premier League?

Personally, I think the top two will be the same as last year. Liverpool will recover to top 4 and Spurs will do even worse than last year.

Bournemouth and Notts Forest are the most likely of the non new joiners to get relegated.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 11, 2023, 10:57:46 AM
That about wraps it up for Spurs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66412269
Surely the god of irony will ensure he fails the medical?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66276899
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 13, 2023, 09:20:17 AM
God of irony seems to have worked on the score


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66489307
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on August 13, 2023, 09:22:12 AM
God of irony seems to have worked on the score


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66489307

That would have been his first ever trophy. Oh well.

The real irony would be if Spurs won something this year.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 14, 2023, 11:15:01 AM
Neymar to Saudi


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66495833
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 15, 2023, 03:54:56 PM
De Bruyne out for 4 months


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66513066
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 17, 2023, 08:03:16 PM
.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 19, 2023, 06:03:17 PM
.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 20, 2023, 12:13:39 PM
Messi doing Messi things


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66562210
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 20, 2023, 06:41:55 PM
West Ham beat Chelsea who have one £100m player miss a penalty, and another £100m player give a penalty away.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66490161
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 24, 2023, 05:06:14 PM
Laporte to Saudi


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66602657
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 26, 2023, 07:56:23 PM
And West Ham will be top of the EPL tonight.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66552607
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 27, 2023, 01:52:34 PM
Hibs sack their manager


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66633584
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 28, 2023, 02:56:57 PM
Sensible move for Tierney


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66627893
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on August 29, 2023, 10:30:27 AM
Hibs sack their manager


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66633584

A bit harsh. The five defeats include a loss to an EPL team. The EPL is far above the Scottish Premiership in terms of quality. So that's really four defeats in eight games.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 31, 2023, 08:33:46 PM
Seems like a good deal for Bayern


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66677935
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 01, 2023, 10:19:22 AM
Arsenal must be missing an angel


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66681775
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on September 01, 2023, 12:26:17 PM
Seems like a good deal for Bayern


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66677935

And Harry Kane has also scored in both of his first two league matches
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 01, 2023, 05:03:04 PM
Liverpool turn down £150M for Salah. Can't see how they could accept on the closing day for EPL transfers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66683099
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on September 01, 2023, 06:30:36 PM
Liverpool turn down £150M for Salah. Can't see how they could accept on the closing day for EPL transfers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66683099
£150 million is used to be a lot of money. If they had a viable replacement, they probably should have sold. He's 31 and therefore doesn't have too many years left.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on September 01, 2023, 06:33:26 PM
£150 million is used to be a lot of money. If they had a viable replacement, they probably should have sold. He's 31 and therefore doesn't have too many years left.

Beginning of the transfer window, that's a done deal. Never going be offered that much for him again. No time for a replacement now.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 01, 2023, 06:57:25 PM
Beginning of the transfer window, that's a done deal. Never going be offered that much for him again. No time for a replacement now.
Which makes you wonder if they actually knew it wouldn't be accepted
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 02, 2023, 09:02:14 AM
2.36 Billion!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66688894
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on September 02, 2023, 09:51:51 AM
2.36 Billion!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66688894
What is more important is the net spend rather than the total spend. From the Times this morning total net spend was £1.074m, slightly down on £1,166m last year.

And in terms of clubs net spend ranges from an eyewatering £174m for Chelsea through to Brighton who received £73m more than they spent (one of just four clubs who received more than they spent).
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on September 02, 2023, 08:09:01 PM
What is more important is the net spend rather than the total spend. From the Times this morning total net spend was £1.074m, slightly down on £1,166m last year.

And in terms of clubs net spend ranges from an eyewatering £174m for Chelsea through to Brighton who received £73m more than they spent (one of just four clubs who received more than they spent).

I think focusing transfer fees is a bit misleading. Yes, the amounts are silly but it's wages what does clubs in.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 03, 2023, 12:11:05 PM
Impressive start for Bellingham


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66696278
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 05, 2023, 11:10:39 AM
Henderson said:
"I've gone above and beyond to help [the LGBTQ+ community]. I've worn the laces. I've worn the armband."
Who could ask for anything more!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66714875
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on September 05, 2023, 12:00:02 PM
Henderson said:
"I've gone above and beyond to help [the LGBTQ+ community]. I've worn the laces. I've worn the armband."
Who could ask for anything more!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66714875

Henderson: How to say I'm thick without saying I'm thick.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on September 06, 2023, 02:05:53 PM
Interesting stuff on net transfer spend over the past 10 years with (perhaps unsurprisingly) Man U and Chelsea at the top.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66726456

For details scroll down to section 5:

https://football-observatory.com/MonthlyReport87

What is perhaps interesting is picking out the clubs that have punched above their weight (done pretty well on the field with relatively low levels of new transfer spend) and those that have punched below their weight.

In English terms Liverpool are ranked 9th in net transfer terms, below West Ham, Aston Villa and Newcastle (remember this is over 2014-2023). And their net spend is less than half of Man U and Chelsea. Also their net spend at -£461 isn't that far off Everton's (-£392) and Everton have been woeful over those years.

But perhaps the biggest standout is Real Madrid (-£325), ranked 19th on the list, with net transfer spend over those 10 years less than Bournemouth, Crystal Palace and only a smidge above Nottm Forest!
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on September 07, 2023, 11:07:35 AM
What is perhaps interesting is picking out the clubs that have punched above their weight (done pretty well on the field with relatively low levels of new transfer spend) and those that have punched below their weight.
Manchester City is a massive outlier in that respect. Their success relative to their spending is absolutely outstanding.

Of course, they are looking at a lot of charges of cooking the books and may get into some trouble.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on September 07, 2023, 11:14:05 AM
Manchester City is a massive outlier in that respect. Their success relative to their spending is absolutely outstanding.
Nothing like as much an outlier as Real Madrid. Net spending less than half of Man City and ranked only 19th in the list, yet they've won five Champions League titles in that period.

Of course, they are looking at a lot of charges of cooking the books and may get into some trouble.
Possibly true, although I'm just basing things on the data in the article.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 07, 2023, 04:52:17 PM
The problem with Rodgers' take is surely that Henderson and other players had set themself up for this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66732863
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on September 08, 2023, 01:21:53 PM
Nothing like as much an outlier as Real Madrid. Net spending less than half of Man City and ranked only 19th in the list, yet they've won five Champions League titles in that period.
So? Does that make Man City not an outlier? Nope. Does that mean Man City were not cooking the books? Nope.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on September 08, 2023, 04:46:46 PM
So? Does that make Man City not an outlier? Nope.
There are levels of 'outlier-ness' surely.

It is hard to argue against Real Madrid being the most successful club side in Europe over the past 10 years. Man City have dominated domestically, but not when they have been up against the best across Europe.

But Real Madrid are ranked just 19th in spend terms. Man City are ranked 5th in terms of overall spend, which probably fits with their overall record (domestic and european). Of course the weird thing is that three of the clubs above them are also English clubs.

So I'd conclude that Man City punch above their weight domestically, but not really when you take account of european competitions. Real Madrid just massively punch above their weight.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on September 08, 2023, 05:48:42 PM
Transfer fees are deceptive. It contracts what you need to look at.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on September 08, 2023, 05:54:14 PM
Transfer fees are deceptive. It contracts what you need to look at.
True - the best way to determine 'spend' is a combination of net transfer fee and wages costs.

There was some info on this some while back - memory suggests I included this in a thread many moons ago to somewhat refute the notion that you can definitely just 'buy' success. Certainly you need to spend big to have a chance of success in England, but spending big does not guarantee success. So I think on that particular measure over a number of years Everton had spent more than Liverpool, yet were typically mid table to skirting with relegation compared to their rivals across Stanley Park's success both in the Premier League and Champions League.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 09, 2023, 10:24:04 AM
29 degrees in Glasgow in September and Scotland with 5 wins out of first five matches in qualifying. Strange times!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66757340
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 12, 2023, 12:33:54 PM
A friendly to celebrate the 150th and 9 month and a few days  anniversary of the oldest international match.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66729198
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on September 12, 2023, 12:51:20 PM
A friendly to celebrate the 150th and 9 month and a few days  anniversary of the oldest international match.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66729198
Let's hope for more goals than the original fixture!
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on September 12, 2023, 01:36:37 PM
Let's hope for more goals than the original fixture!

Paul Gascoigne's goal in 1996 where he chipped the ball over Colin Hendry's head before drilling it into the net is the only goal in football that I can remember in detail.

Scottish members, look away now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evnXFu744uY
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 12, 2023, 02:04:24 PM
I'd happily take a defeat against England if there was a draw between Norway and Georgia.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on September 12, 2023, 02:07:44 PM
I'd happily take a defeat against England if there was a draw between Norway and Georgia.
I doubt England would care either if they lost.

Friendlies really are a waste of time, except as final warm up games before a big tournament.

Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Outrider on September 12, 2023, 10:15:18 PM
I'd happily take a defeat against England if there was a draw between Norway and Georgia.

One out of two ain't bad? :(

O.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on September 13, 2023, 09:43:43 AM
One out of two ain't bad? :(

O.

Not really sure what the problem is. One win takes Scotland mathematically clear of Norway. If they can't beat Georgia, there's not much point in going to Euro 24 anyway.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Outrider on September 13, 2023, 10:00:01 AM
Not really sure what the problem is. One win takes Scotland mathematically clear of Norway. If they can't beat Georgia, there's not much point in going to Euro 24 anyway.

As a 'dual-national' Anglo-Scot, I'm overjoyed at the prospect of seeing them on a major stage again :)

O.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 13, 2023, 02:52:26 PM
Whisper it, but maybe the Chinese won't win a World Cup before 2050. Though I would suspect holding it there is inevitable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66796294
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 13, 2023, 07:18:53 PM
Women's Nations League starts later this month. The anomalous issue about the Olympics for the nations in the UK is interesting.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66801533
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on September 13, 2023, 09:00:23 PM
Women's Nations League starts later this month. The anomalous issue about the Olympics for the nations in the UK is interesting.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66801533

I'm amazed that the other home nations agreed to that.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 13, 2023, 09:15:56 PM
I'm amazed that the other home nations agreed to that.
Looking at it in this article, it means that they had to choose one team to be participating in qualifying but that the Olympic team can be selected from all the nations. In which case that makes sense for the other home nations.


https://www.teamgb.com/article/how-do-you-qualify-for-womens-football-in-the-olympics/YlvhmnLTMb8DLn8Mi55PW
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on September 14, 2023, 08:46:39 AM
Looking at it in this article, it means that they had to choose one team to be participating in qualifying but that the Olympic team can be selected from all the nations. In which case that makes sense for the other home nations.


https://www.teamgb.com/article/how-do-you-qualify-for-womens-football-in-the-olympics/YlvhmnLTMb8DLn8Mi55PW

That make sense. It means there is a chance of selection for other home nations' players even though their national teams would have little chance of qualifying by themselves.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 16, 2023, 10:43:55 AM
Sancho plans a move away from Man Utd?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/66827225
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 23, 2023, 12:52:28 PM
Reasonable summation of my reaction to the England Scotland match last night. On looking at the Women's Nations League, there seems to be a difference as opposed to the men in that the bottom two teams, and top two teams in the 4 team groups get relegated and promoted, as opposed to one in the men's.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66897681
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on September 23, 2023, 01:16:36 PM
the bottom two teams, and top two teams in the 4 team groups get relegated and promoted, as opposed to one in the men's.

Not quite true. The third placed team has a play-off match against one of the second placed teams in the next tier down.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 23, 2023, 01:26:00 PM
Not quite true. The third placed team has a play-off match against one of the second placed teams in the next tier down.
Ah, thanks, that makes a bit more sense.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 23, 2023, 01:31:45 PM
Lingard training at Al-Ettifaq

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66901288
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 23, 2023, 05:29:21 PM
Have to enjoy that in the FA Cup 2nd Qualifying Round there is a match between Quorn and Leek Town.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 24, 2023, 11:06:31 AM
Timely win for Man Utd leaving the 3 promoted teams from last year in the bottom 3.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66828986
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 24, 2023, 05:38:30 PM

Can't imagine this is going to go well for Ajax

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66907389
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 24, 2023, 06:41:59 PM
Dreadful result for Sheffield United


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66835401
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 25, 2023, 03:01:33 PM
Domino's Pizza trolling Chelsea
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 27, 2023, 06:51:26 PM
Aston Villa and The Clingy Shirts


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66932993
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 27, 2023, 06:54:22 PM
Can't imagine this is going to go well for Ajax

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66907389
3 day hat trick.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66907389
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 30, 2023, 09:00:05 PM
The fall out from admitting this error in the Spurs Liverpool game will be interesting.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66973987
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 01, 2023, 08:48:59 PM
Rangers sack Michael Beale


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66818135
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 04, 2023, 02:42:42 PM
Klopp wants a replay. In general I like Klopp but this is idiocy.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67003386
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on October 04, 2023, 05:28:52 PM
Klopp wants a replay. In general I like Klopp but this is idiocy.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67003386

Yes, saw that earlier. He needs to just suck it up. Liverpool were hard done by in that match, but it happens sometimes.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on October 04, 2023, 06:30:16 PM
Yes, saw that earlier. He needs to just suck it up. Liverpool were hard done by in that match, but it happens sometimes.
A replay really isn't a sensible suggestion.

But what I cannot understand is why the decision wasn't corrected. From the audio it appears that the VAR team recognised that they'd made a horrific mistake literally second after the play resumed. And they informed the ref (well actually the 4th official) straight away that the game should be delayed while the error was rectified. But nothing happened. That's the madness - who would have complained if the error (which was obvious to everyone) was immediately rectified.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 05, 2023, 02:14:06 PM
West Ham with chance to break recod for longest unbeaten run by an English team in Europe.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67014086
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 05, 2023, 07:45:53 PM
.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 06, 2023, 08:50:20 AM
Replay surely?


https://talksport.com/football/1590878/laser-union-saint-gilloise-goalkeeper-liverpool-europa-league/
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 08, 2023, 11:17:23 AM

Bellingham continues his hugely impressive start with Real.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67041967
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 08, 2023, 09:55:46 PM
Interesting sending off decision


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67046430
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 09, 2023, 07:59:16 PM
Mon ih  Machar


https://news.stv.tv/sport/amateur-football-side-keeping-heads-held-high-following-51-0-defeat
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 16, 2023, 11:18:31 AM
Hurrah for Scotland qualifying for the Euro Championships, and here's why they need to keep winning. Also the disallowed McTominay goal in Spain, even if we do keep winning maybe what stops us winning the group.


https://news.stv.tv/sport/germany-here-we-come-key-dates-for-scotland-ahead-of-euro-2024
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on October 16, 2023, 11:44:32 AM
Hurrah for Scotland qualifying for the Euro Championships, and here's why they need to keep winning. Also the disallowed McTominay goal in Spain, even if we do keep winning maybe what stops us winning the group.


https://news.stv.tv/sport/germany-here-we-come-key-dates-for-scotland-ahead-of-euro-2024

Quote
Spain to drop points against Georgia or Cyprus

Not gonna happen.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 17, 2023, 07:42:18 AM
Not gonna happen.
Agree but that doesn't mean that winning both games and coming the highest ranked second isn't important.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 17, 2023, 11:22:49 AM
Unimportant given what is going on in Palestine and Israel but the European qualifiers are getting tight in terms of timescale.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/israel-ap-uefa-switzerland-kosovo-b2428453.html


This is added to by the abandonment in Belguim last night


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67132315


ETA: I wonder what reaction there would be were Israel to qualify.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on October 17, 2023, 01:38:18 PM
Unimportant given what is going on in Palestine and Israel but the European qualifiers are getting tight in terms of timescale.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/israel-ap-uefa-switzerland-kosovo-b2428453.html


This is added to by the abandonment in Belguim last night


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67132315


ETA: I wonder what reaction there would be were Israel to qualify.

One of the Swedish players has pointed out that, since Belgium has qualified and Sweden can't, there's no need to replay that match. Although he's probably forgotten about the matter of seedings.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 17, 2023, 09:48:41 PM
Good performance from England to confirm qualification


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67061856
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Outrider on October 18, 2023, 08:19:15 AM
Good performance from England to confirm qualification


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67061856

I don't really watch much football, these days, but I did put this on last night. England seemed OK, Italy seemed like a shadow of what they've been in years past - am I just out of touch with football, or were England that good? Or are Italy really (comparatively) pedestrian?

O.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 18, 2023, 08:38:51 AM
I don't really watch much football, these days, but I did put this on last night. England seemed OK, Italy seemed like a shadow of what they've been in years past - am I just out of touch with football, or were England that good? Or are Italy really (comparatively) pedestrian?

O.
Bit of both. Italy's European Championship win came with a period of effective play that has been surrounded before and after with failures at championships, and failures to qualify for championships. That one of their better players, Tonali, was absent related to possible betting irregularities may not have helped.

England look genuinely amongst the favourites again. Their run over the last 2 World Cups and getting to the final in the Euros to lose to Italy were not flukes. I think Southgate may be overly loyal to some players, Maguire and Phillips last night, but the team has a number of genuinely world class players, and in Bellingham a player in great form.

England, France, and Portugal with the phenomenon CR, are the outstanding form teams for next year.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on October 18, 2023, 08:44:02 AM
I don't really watch much football, these days, but I did put this on last night. England seemed OK, Italy seemed like a shadow of what they've been in years past - am I just out of touch with football, or were England that good? Or are Italy really (comparatively) pedestrian?

O.

They are not what they used to be. They failed to qualify for either of the last two World Cups, although, of course, they are the current European champions.

England does have a good team though. We are currently ranked fourth in the World as of the end of September (Italy 9th) and I think we are worth that spot. I think the top three are some distance ahead of us though.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 18, 2023, 05:57:12 PM
No True English Fan Fallacy?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67142612
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 19, 2023, 03:08:25 PM
One of the Swedish players has pointed out that, since Belgium has qualified and Sweden can't, there's no need to replay that match. Although he's probably forgotten about the matter of seedings.
Match won't be replayed. Draw awarded

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67143280



Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 21, 2023, 10:08:35 PM
Hope the Hibs fans identify anyone who did this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67184901
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 22, 2023, 08:47:58 PM
Hope the Hibs fans identify anyone who did this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67184901
Meanwhile this at Man City


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67188823
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 22, 2023, 10:45:17 PM
Meanwhile this at Man City


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67188823
Also Anfield

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-67188270
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 24, 2023, 01:54:51 PM
Apparently Al-Ettifaq, managed by Steven Gerrard, lost to Al-Riyadh at the weekend in front of 696 fans. Meanwhile 702 fans went to watch Clitheroe v Newcastle Town in the 8th tier of English football on Saturday, and 3,195 was the attendance at Bury v Wythenshawe Town in the 9th tier.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 26, 2023, 04:05:50 PM
Tonali banned for 10 months

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67201451
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 28, 2023, 05:21:39 PM
2.goals from Bellingham in a win for Real Madrid in El Classico


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67251398
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on October 28, 2023, 07:37:26 PM
Three goals for Nketiah in drubbing of Sheffield United.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67179271
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 30, 2023, 02:39:22 AM
Lyon manager 'seriously injured' as team bus attacked in Marseille.

Not sure what should happen here.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67258093
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on October 30, 2023, 08:26:33 AM
People should be arrested and sent to prison for serious assault and criminal damage.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 30, 2023, 08:40:03 AM
People should be arrested and sent to prison for serious assault and criminal damage.
Agree but in terms of the club?
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on October 30, 2023, 08:44:13 AM
Agree but in terms of the club?

Do you mean Lyon or Marseille? I guess there is an argument that Marseille should get a sanction because their fans have "brought them in to disrepute" plus harmed Lyon's potential future performances.

But I do have a problem with punishing clubs for the actions of a few fans they don't have control over.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 30, 2023, 09:26:40 AM
Do you mean Lyon or Marseille? I guess there is an argument that Marseille should get a sanction because their fans have "brought them in to disrepute" plus harmed Lyon's potential future performances.

But I do have a problem with punishing clubs for the actions of a few fans they don't have control over.
Marseille. And while clubs don't have complete conyrol over fans there is obviously some control. I don't think the idea of never taking action against a club works.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on October 30, 2023, 09:38:32 AM
while clubs don't have complete conyrol over fans there is obviously some control.
How much control did the club have over these thugs?

Quote
I don't think the idea of never taking action against a club works.

What action should be taken against this club that would be fair to everybody?


Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 30, 2023, 10:12:12 AM
How much control did the club have over these thugs?

What action should be taken against this club that would be fair to everybody?
Surely the question of control is dependent on what 'these things' are. If, for example, someone gets injured in the stadium because of a large firework that they didn't have sufficient staff on to ensure was kept out?

As to what is 'fair to everybody', I'd be at a loss making a suggestion that I thought passed that criterion for pretty much anything. I opened the discussion on what should be done by saying I wasn't sure.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on October 30, 2023, 10:38:18 AM
Surely the question of control is dependent on what 'these things' are.
"these things"? I wrote "these thugs" meaning the people that did the assault on the bus.

Quote
If, for example, someone gets injured in the stadium because of a large firework that they didn't have sufficient staff on to ensure was kept out?
Yes, I agree that would be on the club.

Quote
As to what is 'fair to everybody', I'd be at a loss making a suggestion that I thought passed that criterion for pretty much anything. I opened the discussion on what should be done by saying I wasn't sure.

Unless it can be shown that the club was negligent in some way, the responsibility for this assault is on the people who did it. Punishing the club, would be punishing people who are innocent of wrong doing. For example, ordering the rescheduled match to be played behind closed doors punishes fans who were not involved. Docking points punishes fans and the club even though they were not involved. Ideally, you target the punishment at the individuals who did the crime.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 30, 2023, 10:47:52 AM
"these things"? I wrote "these thugs" meaning the people that did the assault on the bus.
Yes, I agree that would be on the club.

Unless it can be shown that the club was negligent in some way, the responsibility for this assault is on the people who did it. Punishing the club, would be punishing people who are innocent of wrong doing. For example, ordering the rescheduled match to be played behind closed punishes fans who were not involved. Docking points punishes fans and the club even though they were not involved. Ideally, you target the punishment at the individuals who did the crime.

Apologies for the misreading 

Part of the idea of 'punishing' the club here, or indeed the fans, is that it encourages better behaviour all round, and it mean it is seen to be being taken seriously by the football authorities. Say there is a full house of 60,000 at a hane and large sections of the home fans are constantly racist chanting. The club bars those it can identify but it's only a minority. Would you say no further action should be taken?

As to the question of collective punishment in sport, if one was absolutely against it, then you wouldn't have sendings off. 
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 02, 2023, 02:54:05 PM
Ten Hag's coat on the shooglie peg.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67293894
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on November 02, 2023, 04:08:05 PM
Ten Hag's coat on the shooglie peg.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67293894

Interesting how fortunes differ. Arsenal also conceded three goals and are out, but nobody is questioning Arteta's position. Mind you, reading the BBC match report, I think he might have decided to throw the game.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 03, 2023, 04:52:00 PM
Be interesting what might happen if it can be shown that Milan knew.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67313204
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 04, 2023, 09:52:31 AM

I think Rashford having a planned birthday party is the amongst the smallest issues for Man Utd.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67314370
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on November 04, 2023, 01:15:07 PM
I think Rashford having a planned birthday party is the amongst the smallest issues for Man Utd.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67314370

FTA
Quote
[Ten Hag] confirmed Rashford had not been omitted from the starting line-up for Wednesday's EFL Cup fourth-round defeat by Newcastle as a disciplinary measure.

Overly harsh punishment to make him play an EFL Cup fixture.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 06, 2023, 09:50:05 PM
FTA
Overly harsh punishment to make him play an EFL Cup fixture.
lol
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 06, 2023, 10:25:58 PM
Quite a match between Spurs and Chelsea.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67258895
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 08, 2023, 08:06:03 PM
And an extraordinary penalty shoot between Coleraine and Ballymena


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67360598
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 14, 2023, 04:20:00 PM
81 shots! From old Caledonia, my thoughts are with New Caledonia.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67417235
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 17, 2023, 10:33:50 AM
Emotional win but I'm still struggling with the idea that they've played 5 matches already in qualifying for the 2026 World Cup.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67447739
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 17, 2023, 01:16:46 PM
'Everton receive immediate 10-point Premier League deduction' - ooh err...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67448714
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on November 17, 2023, 05:09:55 PM
'Everton receive immediate 10-point Premier League deduction' - ooh err...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67448714

Call me a cynic. but it seems to me that, if the Man City case had been dispatched with the same alacrity, they'd already be playing in the Championship.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 17, 2023, 07:03:00 PM
Call me a cynic. but it seems to me that, if the Man City case had been dispatched with the same alacrity, they'd already be playing in the Championship.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 21, 2023, 02:43:27 PM
San Marino just can't stop scoring


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67400096
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 21, 2023, 06:33:42 PM
Newcastle to be allowed to loan players from PIF-owned Saudi clubs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67490620
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on November 22, 2023, 01:16:17 PM
Newcastle to be allowed to loan players from PIF-owned Saudi clubs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67490620

Obvious FFP loophole is obvious.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 23, 2023, 02:51:25 PM

Xabi Alonso and 'Neverkusen'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67402898
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 24, 2023, 12:30:29 PM
When I read the headline about pilots and air traffic controllers talking to referees about VAR, I looked for the joje but reading the article, I can see it might be useful.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67517181
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on November 24, 2023, 06:52:07 PM
When I read the headline about pilots and air traffic controllers talking to referees about VAR, I looked for the joje but reading the article, I can see it might be useful.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67517181

This is all one big joke. VAR should be simple. I don't understand why it's so hard in the PL. Instead of asking pilots, why don't they just look a rugby?
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on November 25, 2023, 10:53:33 AM
This is all one big joke. VAR should be simple. I don't understand why it's so hard in the PL. Instead of asking pilots, why don't they just look a rugby?
It's easier with Rugby. The game is more stop start by nature
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 29, 2023, 11:34:56 AM
The rules and the inconsistency between them makes this farce almost inevitable

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/67562308
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 30, 2023, 10:01:38 PM
Maybe this will feature in a future version of this thread if we are still here

https://www.sportbible.com/football/football-news/ffp-rule-trial-date-set-premier-league-564897-20231130
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on December 02, 2023, 01:58:06 PM
I think it will need an improved England

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67599057
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on December 03, 2023, 11:58:55 AM
I think it will need an improved England

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67599057

I doubt it. Scotland are ranked 19 places below England.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on December 03, 2023, 12:03:58 PM
I doubt it. Scotland are ranked 19 places below England.
It's about winning the group in order to have a chance of qualifying for the Olympics. If the Dutch beat Belguuim, England need to beat Scotland by 3 more goals than the Dutch's margin of victory in the Belgium game. Given it was 2-1 to England at home vs Scotland and the article is positing an improved Scotland, then England would need to improve.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on December 03, 2023, 12:09:09 PM
It's about winning the group in order to have a chance of qualifying for the Olympics. If the Dutch beat Belguuim, England need to beat Scotland by 3 more goals than the Dutch's margin of victory in the Belgium game. Given it was 2-1 to England at home vs Scotland and the article is positing an improved Scotland, then England would need to improve.

But if the Dutch don't beat Belgium, just getting more points will be enough.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on December 03, 2023, 12:19:54 PM
But if the Dutch don't beat Belgium, just getting more points will be enough.
And given the Dutch are the other strongest team in the group on form playing Belguim at home...
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on December 05, 2023, 10:54:59 AM
A "Monster Mistake".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67618251

Yes, I'd say so. The referee should have shown yellow cards to some of the players trying to intimidate him.

As for the mistake that led to that, it was pretty minor.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on December 05, 2023, 09:52:16 PM
Quite extraordinary


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67603766
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on December 06, 2023, 10:37:26 AM
Quite extraordinary


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67603766

Unfortunately, it was not quite enough.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on December 06, 2023, 10:49:09 AM
Unfortunately, it was not quite enough.
It was the combination of the 2 results and the swings in the last minutes that I thought was extraordinary. Unfortunately because of the weird Olympics qualifying thing, the result will always be questioned, even if it didn't result in England getting through.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on December 06, 2023, 10:57:10 AM
It was the combination of the 2 results and the swings in the last minutes that I thought was extraordinary. Unfortunately because of the weird Olympics qualifying thing, the result will always be questioned, even if it didn't result in England getting through.

How many of Scotland's players would actually have been in the Olympic squad? How many would have got a game? It was a crazy conflict of interest but I don't think many, if any, of the Scotland players would have been thinking about it.

Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on December 06, 2023, 11:07:47 AM
How many of Scotland's players would actually have been in the Olympic squad? How many would have got a game? It was a crazy conflict of interest but I don't think many, if any, of the Scotland players would have been thinking about it.
The questioners would just say that the number was  potentially greater than zero. As to whether they would have been thinking about it, given they had already been asked about it not only pre game but prior to the start of the group, there's no denying the awareness of it. The result does look like an outlier given both teams general performance in the group, and the match between them in the group when England won 2-1 at home. The same can be said of the Netherlands - Belgium result.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on December 06, 2023, 12:45:06 PM
It was the combination of the 2 results and the swings in the last minutes that I thought was extraordinary. Unfortunately because of the weird Olympics qualifying thing, the result will always be questioned, even if it didn't result in England getting through.
The situation was absolutely crazy and I wonder who this huge conflict of interest wasn't noted earlier. You simply can't have a situation where it is in the interests of players (even some players) on one side to lose and to lose heavily.

So probably for the best that England failed to qualify as I image the Netherlands would have been incensed if England had gone through (or rather GB&NI had gone through) because Scotland (a part of the qualifying team) had lost to England.

Now we won't know how many, if any, Scottish players might have been selected for a GB&NI team, but I suspect Weigman would have had pressure to 'spread the love' and not pick only, of overwhelmingly, English players. And even if there were only a couple of Scottish players on the field last night in contention, others may have believed they were or wanted to help their team mates - which in this case would be by losing heavily.

Oh and just to be clear - I don't think that football should be an Olympic sport anyhow.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on December 06, 2023, 01:24:32 PM
The situation was absolutely crazy and I wonder who this huge conflict of interest wasn't noted earlier. You simply can't have a situation where it is in the interests of players (even some players) on one side to lose and to lose heavily.

So probably for the best that England failed to qualify as I image the Netherlands would have been incensed if England had gone through (or rather GB&NI had gone through) because Scotland (a part of the qualifying team) had lost to England.

Now we won't know how many, if any, Scottish players might have been selected for a GB&NI team, but I suspect Weigman would have had pressure to 'spread the love' and not pick only, of overwhelmingly, English players. And even if there were only a couple of Scottish players on the field last night in contention, others may have believed they were or wanted to help their team mates - which in this case would be by losing heavily.

Oh and just to be clear - I don't think that football should be an Olympic sport anyhow.
It was noted earlier - see the link in reply 105.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on December 06, 2023, 02:48:55 PM
It was noted earlier - see the link in reply 105.
I think we'd all noted the non-sense of the arrangement previously. But at the time it was a purely theoretical matter - we didn't know that the theoretical conflict would actually be realised whereby the last game(s) of the qualifying would come down to goal difference (or even at one point during the match, goals scored) with England playing Scotland, with England success in the group required for a GB team in the Olympics to remain possible.

Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on December 07, 2023, 07:56:43 AM
Great win from Aston Villa. Part of me thinks that Manchester City will just pull together a long run of victories in the second half of the season as they have done frequently lately but very interesting title race.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67644794
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on December 11, 2023, 05:32:04 PM
'Greek football goes behind closed doors for two months'

Huge action to take but will it really address the problems?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67684377
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on December 11, 2023, 11:30:25 PM

So after Greece suspend crowds, Turkey suspends football. Quite incredible stuff with a club president attacking a ref.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67688071
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on December 19, 2023, 04:10:02 PM
Steve Cooper sacked at Notts Forest

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67757915
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on December 19, 2023, 05:04:18 PM
The Case of The Tiny Shinpads


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67761709
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on December 22, 2023, 06:41:24 PM
Suarez joins Inter Miami. Apparently 'the two-year contract he signed with Gremio in 2022 was ended early because Suarez felt he could not play another full season in Brazil with a knee problem and the travelling distances for games.' Well obviously the US is the obvious league to join given that.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67806904
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on December 31, 2023, 02:39:07 PM
Sacked twice before the New Year


https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/lee-johnson-efl-fleetwood-hibernian-31773390
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 02, 2024, 11:39:54 AM
And Rooney out after 15 games


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67858866
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 05, 2024, 10:34:48 PM

Joey Barton is unwell

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67897623
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 07, 2024, 10:55:53 AM
The romance of the Cup (French)


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67903643
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 15, 2024, 04:54:49 PM
Everton and Notts Forest charged for financial breaches for 2022-23 season. Lawyers will be happy.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67978537
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 15, 2024, 09:21:26 PM
Messi gets FIFA Player of the Year. Really?


https://www.reuters.com/sports/soccer/messi-named-fifa-player-2023-2024-01-15/
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 16, 2024, 02:55:47 PM
Think this is a reasonable take on gambling in football in the light of Ivan Toney's return from ban.


https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2024/jan/13/ivan-toney-is-back-but-nothing-has-changed-gambling-is-embedded-in-football
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: bluehillside Retd. on January 16, 2024, 03:33:35 PM
NS,

Quote
Think this is a reasonable take on gambling in football in the light of Ivan Toney's return from ban.


https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2024/jan/13/ivan-toney-is-back-but-nothing-has-changed-gambling-is-embedded-in-football

Just for funsies, Ivan Toney’s full name is Ivan Benjamin Elijah Toney. With initials like that you’d think Brentford FC would have known what to expect  ;)
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 16, 2024, 06:06:55 PM
Date set for Man City's hearing but currently it's a secret.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67993371
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 20, 2024, 09:52:09 PM
Can his support carrie Buckie Thistle to the shining win, or will they rage as they sre sent into the dead zone? Will it be misery, or a blaze into joyland. We won't find out till later if it's a fairy tale, or feels like a cell in the dark tower. There will be those with insomnia tonight, waiting to take their place in the stand, hoping for revival not desperation.


https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68010221
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 26, 2024, 12:19:03 PM
Klopp leaving Liverpool (never to return) at end of season.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68104699
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on January 26, 2024, 01:34:13 PM
Klopp leaving Liverpool (never to return) at end of season.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68104699
Gutted about this - as a Liverpool fan this is terrible news, but he's such a big and likeable personality (unlike many other successful managers since the PL inception!!) he will be a massive loss to the Premier League.

One stat-oid that really surprised me from the article is this:

'Klopp is the only Liverpool manager to win the league title, European Cup/Champions League, FA Cup and EFL Cup with the Reds.'

Given Liverpool's dominance from the late 70s to 1990 that really surprises me.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 26, 2024, 01:53:58 PM
Gutted about this - as a Liverpool fan this is terrible news, but he's such a big and likeable personality (unlike many other successful managers since the PL inception!!) he will be a massive loss to the Premier League.

One stat-oid that really surprised me from the article is this:

'Klopp is the only Liverpool manager to win the league title, European Cup/Champions League, FA Cup and EFL Cup with the Reds.'

Given Liverpool's dominance from the late 70s to 1990 that really surprises me.
Yep, both to him being a loss, and to the stat being a surprise - but Shankly never won the European Cup, Dalglish couldn't, Fagan wasn't really in place for that long. Paisley's lack of the FA Cup is the stand out. They won it the final before he took over in 1974 and then not again till 1986.

Germany national manager for Klopp?
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on January 26, 2024, 02:34:59 PM
Yep, both to him being a loss, and to the stat being a surprise - but Shankly never won the European Cup, Dalglish couldn't, Fagan wasn't really in place for that long. Paisley's lack of the FA Cup is the stand out. They won it the final before he took over in 1974 and then not again till 1986.

Germany national manager for Klopp?
Correct on the reasons why none of the others won all four. The one that I suspect a lot of people forget is that Liverpool didn't win the FA cup during that period when they were so dominant in the league and in the European Cup.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 26, 2024, 02:40:28 PM
Correct on the reasons why none of the others won all four. The one that I suspect a lot of people forget is that Liverpool didn't win the FA cup during that period when they were so dominant in the league and in the European Cup.
Has the FA Cup become something that is won by a smaller group of clubs or is that just what it feels like?
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on January 26, 2024, 04:23:58 PM
Has the FA Cup become something that is won by a smaller group of clubs or is that just what it feels like?
Don't really understand the question - but I think the strongest clubs have tended to regularly win the trophy, meaning it is somewhat surprising that Liverpool didn't from 1974 to 1986, despite their dominance in other competitions. In that period they won the league eight times, the European cup four times and the League Cup four times. So rather unexpected that they didn't win the FA Cup during that period.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 26, 2024, 04:37:21 PM
Speculation on Klopp's successor

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68106586
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 27, 2024, 10:40:32 AM
Kalvin Phillips loan means he can play against Liverpool but not Man City. Does seem unfair.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/westham-mancity-kalvin-phillips-loan-31969384
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on January 27, 2024, 11:03:42 AM
Gutted about this - as a Liverpool fan this is terrible news, but he's such a big and likeable personality (unlike many other successful managers since the PL inception!!) he will be a massive loss to the Premier League.

One stat-oid that really surprised me from the article is this:

'Klopp is the only Liverpool manager to win the league title, European Cup/Champions League, FA Cup and EFL Cup with the Reds.'

Given Liverpool's dominance from the late 70s to 1990 that really surprises me.
As an Arsenal fan, I'm really happy for him.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on January 27, 2024, 11:09:34 AM
Kalvin Phillips loan means he can play against Luverpool but not Man City. Does seem unfair.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/westham-mancity-kalvin-phillips-loan-31969384

I agree.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 27, 2024, 11:43:55 AM
Don't really understand the question - but I think the strongest clubs have tended to regularly win the trophy, meaning it is somewhat surprising that Liverpool didn't from 1974 to 1986, despite their dominance in other competitions. In that period they won the league eight times, the European cup four times and the League Cup four times. So rather unexpected that they didn't win the FA Cup during that period.
I was wondering if it was harder to win because the wins it was more competitive with the winners coming from more teams. Up till 1993 there had been 5 doubles in English football, since then there have been 8.

Brian Clough has the same gap of the FA Cup at Forest as Paisley.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on January 27, 2024, 12:05:30 PM
I was wondering if it was harder to win because the wins it was more competitive with the winners coming from more teams. Up till 1993 there had been 5 doubles in English football, since then there have been 8.
The top teams are further ahead than they used to be and so less likely to lose.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 27, 2024, 12:54:03 PM
Genk vs Anderlecht to be replayed after VAR error.

What if it were to happen at a World Cup/Champions League? This is going to be problematic.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/anderlecht-genk-var-replay-error-b2485908.html
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on January 27, 2024, 04:29:36 PM
Genk vs Anderlecht to be replayed after VAR error.

What if it were to happen at a World Cup/Champions League? This is going to be problematic.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/anderlecht-genk-var-replay-error-b2485908.html

It's utterly stupid. They should have just said "tough luck". Before VAR that's what would have happened.

Not that I understand the ruling. The argument seems to be that a Genk player's goal was ruled out because he was in the penalty area when the penalty was taken, but it is somehow evened out because some Anderlecht defenders were also breaking the rules. Either I haven't understood the situation or the ruling is wrong.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 28, 2024, 02:26:08 AM
And Xavi to leave Barcelona at end of season.

Add in the Euro 2024, and it's going to be full on managerial Runaround then!


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68120429
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 28, 2024, 09:47:07 AM
Great story on the fight yo allow Newport to play in Wales in Newport


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68096720
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on January 28, 2024, 11:05:15 AM
Great story on the fight yo allow Newport to play in Wales in Newport


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68096720
It’s astonishing the the Welsh FA thought they could dictate the leagues that Newport plays in.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 02, 2024, 09:17:52 AM
Huge drop in EPL transfer fees in the January window

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68174872
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 03, 2024, 09:28:23 AM
Did Bellingham call Greenwood a rapist? Is that actually against the rules?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68186145
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 05, 2024, 07:31:41 AM
Bit early, I think, to start a 2026 World Cup thread. All matches from quarter finals to be played in US.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68200774
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 09, 2024, 08:34:20 AM
The draw for the Nations thingy


https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68235884
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 09, 2024, 10:17:49 PM
Blue cards? Not sure it makes much sense.


https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68253885
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 10, 2024, 11:50:53 AM
It's our ball and we're not going to let you play

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68261461
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on February 10, 2024, 01:03:07 PM
Blue cards? Not sure it makes much sense.


https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68253885

If it curbs player dissent with the referee, I'm all for it. Not sure why they can't just give a yellow card though, given that two blues will also get you sent off.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 10, 2024, 01:43:37 PM
If it curbs player dissent with the referee, I'm all for it. Not sure why they can't just give a yellow card though, given that two blues will also get you sent off.
Adding a card which seems to have no real difference from what a yellow card can be awarded seems just to make confusion inevitable.

Introducing sin bins doesn't seem as likely to have an effect as in rugby, and may be countetproductive.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on February 11, 2024, 11:31:38 AM
Adding a card which seems to have no real difference from what a yellow card can be awarded seems just to make confusion inevitable.

Introducing sin bins doesn't seem as likely to have an effect as in rugby, and may be countetproductive.

In rugby, the penalty for dissent is 10 metres, which seems totally reasonable to me. It doesn't seriously affect the balance of play, so the referee can award it as frequently as need be. They did try a similar experiment in football a few years ago but it went nowhere.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on February 15, 2024, 09:02:12 AM
Harry Kane left Spurs to win trophies.

It's not going well

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68298282
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on February 15, 2024, 12:04:35 PM
Looks like Roy Hodgson is getting fired.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68303964
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 15, 2024, 01:05:12 PM
Looks like Roy Hodgson is getting fired.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68303964
He can go and do something sensible for a man of his age like stand for US president.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on February 19, 2024, 10:09:37 AM
Could be an amazing end to the Premier League season with Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal just a whisker apart.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on February 19, 2024, 12:02:56 PM
Could be an amazing end to the Premier League season with Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal just a whisker apart.
If Man City win their game in hand, there will be three teams at the top separated by two points.

Aston Villa are probably a little too far behind to make it a four way contest.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 19, 2024, 05:18:14 PM
Second sacking for Beale

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68340952
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ProfessorDavey on February 19, 2024, 06:10:39 PM
If Man City win their game in hand, there will be three teams at the top separated by two points.
And Man City dropping points at home over the weekend made it more interesting still, particularly as Man City have to go to Liverpool and Arsenal have to go to Man City before the end of the season. On paper Liverpool look to have the best chance, but Man City always seem to go on a huge winning streak at the end of the season and Liverpool have significant injury issues.

Aston Villa are probably a little too far behind to make it a four way contest.
Realistically they are in a three-way battle for the final Champions League spot with Spurs and an in-form Man U.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 19, 2024, 06:11:36 PM
And Hodgson goes to be replaced by Glasner

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68342650
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 21, 2024, 06:05:20 PM
None of the other teams in the 'north' are going to want Man Utd's stadium to be the "national stadium in the north'


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68361025
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 26, 2024, 01:33:10 PM
Everton's punishment reduced to 6 points, making it less likely that the relegation battle became a legal one this year


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68273436
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on February 26, 2024, 02:49:26 PM
Everton's punishment reduced to 6 points, making it less likely that the relegation battle became a legal one this year


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68273436

It's not quite over.

Quote
Everton are facing another possible points deduction after being charged with breaching rules for a second time in January, for the three seasons up to 2022-23.

That case could not be heard until their appeal against the 10-point deduction was competed.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 28, 2024, 09:21:59 AM
The Haaland performance last night was quite extraordinary but an FA Cup round that's all midweek matches?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68420426
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on February 28, 2024, 09:45:22 AM
... but an FA Cup round that's all midweek matches?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68420426

TV rights.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 28, 2024, 11:56:23 AM
.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 29, 2024, 05:07:12 PM
Eh?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68433101
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 06, 2024, 08:16:11 AM
Not the best time to be a Sheffield United fan


Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on March 06, 2024, 10:11:22 AM
Not the best time to be a Sheffield United fan
Ouch
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 08, 2024, 09:49:56 AM
Nice little article on the possible end for now of the Guardiola - Klopp rivalry.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68440317
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 08, 2024, 01:55:07 PM
Abada leaves Celtic. Sectarianism strikes again


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68507625
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 09, 2024, 03:17:49 PM
Warnock leaves Aberdeen after a month.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68522760
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 15, 2024, 11:35:10 AM
Interesting draw for the quarter and semi finals of the Champions League.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68573522
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 16, 2024, 12:58:54 PM
Top pucture is Roma fans first leg of the Roma Brighton tie. Bottom one is Brighton's reply at home.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 18, 2024, 02:51:08 PM
Nottingham Forest docked 4 points for financial irregularities, dropping them into a relegation place.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68594865
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 18, 2024, 10:20:21 PM

Man City make daring £100m bid for the four points taken from Nottingham Forest

https://newsthump.com/2024/03/18/man-city-make-daring-100m-bid-for-the-six-points-taken-from-nottingham-forest/
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 21, 2024, 06:53:51 PM
Leicester charged with financial rule breaches


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68580638
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 30, 2024, 09:34:50 AM
Apparently Chelsea should be 4th based on the data. Not sure why we need to play the games at all, let's just run a simulation.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68694784
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on March 30, 2024, 06:16:40 PM
Apparently Chelsea should be 4th based on the data. Not sure why we need to play the games at all, let's just run a simulation.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68694784

So he’s saying they are underperforming. Is that on the manager?
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on March 30, 2024, 06:18:16 PM
Apparently Chelsea should be 4th based on the data. Not sure why we need to play the games at all, let's just run a simulation.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68694784
Also, not all the data: the number of games won and drawn counts as data.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 31, 2024, 09:07:09 PM
Brilliant free kick


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/68704147
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 02, 2024, 12:17:12 PM
Apparently this is the new mural of Jamie Vardy at the King Power stadium
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 02, 2024, 08:30:39 PM
Leicester charged with financial rule breaches


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68580638
And given this, who knows whether they will get promoted even if they were to win the Championship


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68709502
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 02, 2024, 09:36:57 PM
Brighton doing rather better

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68691248
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on April 03, 2024, 11:11:29 AM
And given this, who knows whether they will get promoted even if they were to win the Championship


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68709502

I don't think the Premier League has jurisdiction over EFL clubs. I suppose they could refuse to let Leicester come back up, but is it more likely that they will start the season with a significant negative points total?
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 03, 2024, 12:45:43 PM
I don't think the Premier League has jurisdiction over EFL clubs. I suppose they could refuse to let Leicester come back up, but is it more likely that they will start the season with a significant negative points total?
Yep, I think you're right.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 04, 2024, 08:29:00 PM
Interesting set of graphs and figures on the Financial in the Premier league.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68713522
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 05, 2024, 12:14:47 AM
What an incredible game!


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68681425
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 05, 2024, 07:14:58 PM
I'm with Motherwell here. The Dens Park issue has been going on all season. It's a farce that this is happening in the Scottish Premiership.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68734390
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on April 05, 2024, 07:47:32 PM
I'm with Motherwell here. The Dens Park issue has been going on all season. It's a farce that this is happening in the Scottish Premiership.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68734390

Not sure if it's quite the same thing because games have always been postponed due to waterlogging, but I think rules concerning the state of the pitch go too far. A pitch should live with the seasons.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 05, 2024, 07:51:50 PM
Not sure if it's quite the same thing because games have always been postponed due to waterlogging, but I think rules concerning the state of the pitch go too far. A pitch should live with the seasons.
It's because the owners haven't been willing to spend the money on it. Tannadice, Dundee Utd's ground, which is almost next door hasn't had the problems.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on April 06, 2024, 11:44:33 AM
I'm with Motherwell here. The Dens Park issue has been going on all season. It's a farce that this is happening in the Scottish Premiership.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68734390

What is "the split"?
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on April 06, 2024, 11:46:29 AM
Not sure if it's quite the same thing because games have always been postponed due to waterlogging, but I think rules concerning the state of the pitch go too far. A pitch should live with the seasons.

A waterlogged pitch can be dangerous. If there is a significant risk of injury, you can't play the match.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 06, 2024, 11:56:17 AM
What is "the split"?
For the last five games of the season, the league splits into top six and bottom six, and they play 5 games against the teams in whichever part of the split they are in. As there are 12 teams in the league, it means they all play each other 3 times, and then another 5 games, so total of 38 games. When there were 10 teams, they played each other 4 times which meant 36 games, which is what happens in the 3 lower leagues. Obviously were they to do that in a 12 team league it's 44 which is too many. Not ideal but ...
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 06, 2024, 01:38:57 PM
Match going ahead


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68748080
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 08, 2024, 02:55:19 PM
Everton docked another 2 points


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68723109
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on April 08, 2024, 03:49:24 PM
Everton docked another 2 points


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68723109

Done quickly, which is good, now let's get to City. Granted, the number of alleged breaches is many times more, but if they're found guilty of only 10% of the 115 charges, they must have a massive penalty awaiting, just for the sake consistency and credibility.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 08, 2024, 09:28:24 PM
Match going ahead


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68748080
But the postponed match against Rangers is in danger of being postponed again


https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/rangers-face-anxious-dundee-wait-28957175
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on April 09, 2024, 10:30:55 AM
Done quickly, which is good,
No, not really. There's going to be an appeal but it won't happen until after the end of the season. Given Everton's position in the league, it is possible that the result of the appeal might change the relegated teams. That's not a good look.
Quote
now let's get to City. Granted, the number of alleged breaches is many times more, but if they're found guilty of only 10% of the 115 charges, they must have a massive penalty awaiting, just for the sake consistency and credibility.
The rugby premiership was not at all afraid to relegate their best team when it broke the pay cap rules. I'll be interested to see if the Premier League has the same kind of guts.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 09, 2024, 01:34:33 PM
'Security raised for Champions League ties after threat'



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68769669
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on April 09, 2024, 02:57:50 PM
No, not really. There's going to be an appeal but it won't happen until after the end of the season. Given Everton's position in the league, it is possible that the result of the appeal might change the relegated teams. That's not a good look.

Yeah, you're right. Just read an article on this.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68764608
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on April 09, 2024, 02:59:41 PM
The rugby premiership was not at all afraid to relegate their best team when it broke the pay cap rules. I'll be interested to see if the Premier League has the same kind of guts.

Rugby is usually better at these things though, probably because less money is involved.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 09, 2024, 03:07:28 PM
Rugby is usually better at these things though, probably because less money is involved.
Though rugby clubs' financials are a mess.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 09, 2024, 10:20:16 PM
Was looking at the process of qualifying for the Women's Euros after tonight's matches. A little convoluted.
....


https://www.uefa.com/womenseuropeanqualifiers/draws/
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on April 10, 2024, 08:43:56 AM
Was looking at the process of qualifying for the Women's Euros after tonight's matches. A little convoluted.
....


https://www.uefa.com/womenseuropeanqualifiers/draws/
Couldn't agree more. I wonder what the reasoning was.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 10, 2024, 08:55:44 AM
Couldn't agree more. I wonder what the reasoning was.
I suppose it means that a lot of matches will continue to have some meaning, and is an attempt to deal with the lack of maturity of some teams by providing competitive fixtures. That Switzerland are playing though qualified is also presumably related to that.

It does make working out what you need to do what the province of the spreadsheet.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 10, 2024, 11:10:45 AM
Wrexham - the story continues

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68776585
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 10, 2024, 06:05:59 PM
But the postponed match against Rangers is in danger of being postponed again


https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/rangers-face-anxious-dundee-wait-28957175
And match is indeed postponed again


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68695355
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 11, 2024, 06:55:39 PM
Sheffield Utd will have 2 points deducted if they are relegated for next season.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on April 12, 2024, 04:24:39 PM
Sheffield Utd will have 2 points deducted if they are relegated for next season.
When they are relegated.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 13, 2024, 05:20:45 PM
All the postponements of the Dundee - Rangers game now work in favour of Rangers as Dundee have made the split and have less reason to strain for points on Wednesday,


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68747460
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 14, 2024, 11:37:27 AM
Wrexham - the story continues

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68776585
Promotion gained

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68795289
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 14, 2024, 04:53:55 PM
Don't imagine this was the week Liverpool thought they would suffer 2 home defeats.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68754388
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on April 15, 2024, 08:31:18 AM
Don't imagine this was the week Liverpool thought they would suffer 2 home defeats.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68754388

I would rejoice, but Arsenal lost a match they should have won too.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 15, 2024, 10:38:33 AM
One must have a heart of stone to read the tale of Harry  Kane without laughing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68812568
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on April 15, 2024, 11:25:07 AM
One must have a heart of stone to read the tale of Harry  Kane without laughing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68812568

I think it's well funny.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 15, 2024, 07:07:25 PM
Bad news for Bologna, Scotland, and most of all Ferguson, after a great season.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68819138
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 15, 2024, 10:18:22 PM
Cole Palmer hits his 17 th to 20th goals of the Premier League season

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/68429330
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 16, 2024, 01:20:29 PM

So it looks like the Dundee Rangers match will go ahead this time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68820217
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 17, 2024, 10:13:08 PM
So it looks like the Dundee Rangers match will go ahead this time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68820217
After all that 0-0

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68789796
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 18, 2024, 11:12:38 AM
Kingsley Coman's career in the leagues he has played in till Harry Kane joined Bayern
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 18, 2024, 11:26:14 AM
After all that 0-0

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68789796
  Ah, the banter

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/dundee-tannoy-goes-full-rangers-32612937

Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on April 18, 2024, 06:04:12 PM
Kingsley Coman's career in the leagues he has played in till Harry Kane joined Bayern

Bayern will probably win the Champions League now.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 20, 2024, 01:07:06 PM
Vitesse Arnhem relegated after 18 point deduction following apparent links to Roman Abramovich


https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/apr/19/vitesse-arnhem-relegated-from-eredivisie-after-18-point-deduction


Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on April 20, 2024, 02:06:37 PM
I don't like this one bit. Especially shitty for the lower league sides. The FA Cup was the height of the season for me as a kid. The chance of a replay for lower league sides was always part of that.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68856480
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 20, 2024, 02:34:37 PM
Great win for Chelsea vs Barcelona in the Women's Champions League.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68857830
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 22, 2024, 10:15:51 AM
"Nottingham Forest question VAR official in Everton defeat and 'consider options'"

Surely fines, and possible points deduction (not sure ofif that can be applied).


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68870230
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 23, 2024, 01:35:53 PM
Another call for a match to be replayed


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c2vwq901e93o
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 27, 2024, 10:41:51 AM
Slot follows Klopp


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cn40r131z2no
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 28, 2024, 11:19:37 AM

Chelsea knocked out in the Women's Champions League

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cv2x02nwkzgo
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on April 28, 2024, 05:19:14 PM
Happy Saint Totteringham's Day to one and all.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68867476
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 03, 2024, 04:55:41 PM

Nottingham Forest being charged by FA as I thought they might be.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cg30l8em32no
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 06, 2024, 06:47:51 PM
Great season from Ferguson but will miss Euros through injury.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cd13p97znw4o
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 06, 2024, 07:13:30 PM
What will Moyes legacy be?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c6pyj22z5d8o
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on May 06, 2024, 08:03:36 PM
What will Moyes legacy be?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c6pyj22z5d8o

I think it's the right time to change manager but I really hope the fans give him a good send off. He deserves it. We had three great years in Europe and he helped get us our first bit of silverware for over forty years. I'll never forget that.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 06, 2024, 08:23:08 PM
I think it's the right time to change manager but I really hope the fans give him a good send off. He deserves it. We had three great years in Europe and he helped get us our first bit of silverware for over forty years. I'll never forget that.
I think you may be right about it being the right time. He deserves a huge send off.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 09, 2024, 11:09:46 AM
Bayern will probably win the Champions League now.


And yet not to be. The Trials of Harry Kane continue

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czvj5nddyj0o

While Joselu is the hero


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cd1qwyrp0nlo
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 09, 2024, 10:38:56 PM
49 unbeaten for Leverkusen


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68980160
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 10, 2024, 01:04:45 PM
Everton withdraw appeal against 2 point deduction

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c88zn10ngj7o
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 15, 2024, 10:31:48 AM

Fragile Spurs?



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cydrrdmn05go
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on May 15, 2024, 01:33:52 PM
Fragile Spurs?



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cydrrdmn05go

There will be a number of Spurs supporters who are happy that they lost to Man City.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on May 15, 2024, 04:56:50 PM
There will be a number of Spurs supporters who are happy that they lost to Man City.

My best mate back in England sent me this message last night after Spurs lost. Spurs fan.😂 But of course I want West Ham to win.💪
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 15, 2024, 06:58:10 PM
EPL clubs to vote on whether to keep VAR

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c4n1ndlknk1o
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on May 15, 2024, 07:05:14 PM
EPL clubs to vote on whether to keep VAR

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c4n1ndlknk1o

Just get rid of it. Referees made mistakes for but at least we won't have to wait five minutes for them to make them.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 15, 2024, 07:10:12 PM
Just get rid of it. Referees made mistakes for but at least we won't have to wait five minutes for them to make them.
I think if it looked as if VAR was virtually never wrong then I would lean to keeping it but....
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on May 15, 2024, 07:22:33 PM
I think if it looked as if VAR was virtually never wrong then I would lean to keeping it but....

Exactly!
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on May 16, 2024, 08:42:37 AM
I think if it looked as if VAR was virtually never wrong then I would lean to keeping it but....

It's wrong less often than referees. It's actually physically impossible for a referee and linesmen to judge an off side decision.

It's not as if, in the days before VAR, everybody accepted the referees decisions. There was plenty of whining about them and for those people who want rid of VAR, I would say "fine, but don't ever question the referee again".
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 18, 2024, 07:50:44 PM
De Zerbi leaving Brighton


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cjeed3g258eo
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 18, 2024, 09:12:07 PM
And another trophy chance slips away from Harry Kane


https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/harry-kane-bayern-munich-trophy-32841298
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on May 19, 2024, 11:38:19 AM
Will West Ham be able to do Arsenal a solid today, that's assuming Arsenal win today as well? I don't really like seeing other London clubs win but I hate the idea of City winning again too.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on May 19, 2024, 11:43:08 AM
And another trophy chance slips away from Harry Kane


https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/harry-kane-bayern-munich-trophy-32841298

The only sure way City don't win next season.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on May 19, 2024, 01:41:56 PM
Will West Ham be able to do Arsenal a solid today,
Frankly, I think it's unlikely.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 20, 2024, 09:01:06 AM
Chastening season for the sides promoted into the Premier League.

Given it was only theoretically possible for Luton to stay up on the last day due to Forest's point deduction, I have to wonder if teams coming up are thinking that it may be worth breaching the financial rules if it increases their chance of staying up even at the risk of points deductions. 


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/clw0elp1nj2o
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on May 20, 2024, 09:45:42 AM
Chastening season for the sides promoted into the Premier League.

Given it was only theoretically possible for Luton to stay up on the last day due to Forest's point deduction, I have to wonder if teams coming up are thinking that it may be worth breaching the financial rules if it increases their chance of staying up even at the risk of points deductions. 


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/clw0elp1nj2o

I don't think we need to read too much into one season. TBH I am surprised that it doesn't happen more often.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 21, 2024, 01:42:40 PM
Scotland v Israel Women's Euro 2025 Qualifier to be played without fans.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cp9923repk7o
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 21, 2024, 07:29:47 PM
Pochettino leaves Chelsea


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c1ww8xw8nywo
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 22, 2024, 10:50:32 PM
Atalanta end Leverkusen's unbeaten run


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/cw005j1704lt
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 23, 2024, 03:35:44 PM
.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 23, 2024, 04:16:19 PM
'West Ham appoint Lopetegui as Moyes' replacement' - not a surprise but gives him the chance to properly get involved in transfers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/ce779x49463o
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 23, 2024, 04:48:15 PM
But bad news for West Ham with Paqueta charged with betting breaches


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c2llxjxq955o
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 24, 2024, 11:12:09 AM
WTAF? Why are Newcastle, gubbed 8-0, and Spurs, playing Friday, doing this? Surely the money can't be worth it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c511gvv8z9xo
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 24, 2024, 01:27:05 PM
Looks like Flick to Barcelona in the marvellous managerial merry-go-round


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c72250v375eo
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 25, 2024, 01:14:09 PM
Kompany to Bayern.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cqqqdry56ngo
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 28, 2024, 04:57:04 PM
Review of the Saudi season


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/ckkkd5647pno
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on May 29, 2024, 11:17:57 AM
Review of the Saudi season


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/ckkkd5647pno

That seemed to be as much about which stars in their twilight years could be signed for how much as actual football. Most teams don't even seem to be getting English league one attendances.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on May 30, 2024, 08:12:54 AM
A new country gets a winner of a European cup.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/c988jy177gqt
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on June 01, 2024, 12:47:19 PM
Everton's ownership up in air


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c0wwdpwzld9o
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on June 02, 2024, 10:55:15 AM
15th European Cup/Champions League for Real Madrid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cm55m10dlneo
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on June 02, 2024, 04:53:05 PM
Mbappe to Real Madrid - what a shock!


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czqqg40xv80o
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on June 02, 2024, 07:53:56 PM
15th European Cup/Champions League for Real Madrid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cm55m10dlneo

Must be boring being a Real fan.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on June 03, 2024, 09:37:22 AM
Must be boring being a Real fan.

Not as boring as being an Arsenal fan and watching the team not quite be good enough year after year.

Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on June 03, 2024, 07:18:51 PM

Maresca to Chelsea

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cyxxnve9g23o
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on June 04, 2024, 09:33:10 PM
'Man City launch legal action over financial rules' - the legal Premier League ramps up.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/crggez4w209o
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on June 06, 2024, 06:18:34 PM
'Man City launch legal action over financial rules' - the legal Premier League ramps up.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/crggez4w209o

This tells me City knows they're going to be found guilty on many of the charges, so reporting to "the system is unfair!".
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: jeremyp on June 07, 2024, 12:03:38 PM
This tells me City knows they're going to be found guilty on many of the charges, so reporting to "the system is unfair!".
If they win, it will be a disaster for English football.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: ad_orientem on June 08, 2024, 12:18:11 PM
If they win, it will be a disaster for English football.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Football 2023 - 2024
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 02, 2024, 11:26:28 AM
US out of Copa America at group stage


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/cl5ydj03wyvt