Should we leave the EEC?

[BashfulAnthony]

"Should we leave the EEC?"

YES!!

[Hope]

"Should we leave the EEC?"

YES!!

It's difficult to leave something that doesn't exist, BA and others.  The EEC effectively ceased to exist in 1993.

Upon the formation of the European Union (EU) in 1993, the EEC was incorporated and renamed as the European Community (EC). In 2009 the EC's institutions were absorbed into the EU's wider framework and the community ceased to exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Community

[Hope]

Can't see any reason why we shouldn't have a referendum about joining a federated Europe, instead of having it imposed on us, without a choice.

ippy

We've been in a form of federated Europe since 1993, but like you ippy, I think that would make for a more realistic referendum

[Jack Knave]

When  the  EU  disintegrates  I  will  have  the pleasure  of  telling  you  lot, "I  Told  You  So!" 

I would like to remind people of what I said in October with regards to what is now happening with Greece et al and what is being said on the Grexit thread. I reckon by the end of the year things will look substantially different for the EU and its future.

Why don't you wait until the EU disintegrates before being smug, then you won't look like a twat.

I see you don't say 'if' so you must agree with me it is going to disintegrate. In which case I look percipient and prescient and superior, as I was saying this last October if not before this!!!

[Jack Knave]

When  the  EU  disintegrates  I  will  have  the pleasure  of  telling  you  lot, "I  Told  You  So!" 

I would like to remind people of what I said in October with regards to what is now happening with Greece et al and what is being said on the Grexit thread. I reckon by the end of the year things will look substantially different for the EU and its future.

Hi Jack,

I would agree that the Greek 'solution' has a very good chance of coming unstuck and if that happened the Euro would be in crisis, but that would not be an end to the EU. Possibly it would bring about the more sensible EU that  Cameron is seeking.

And what is Cameron seeking? It is not one that the people want, that is, the left of Greece, Spain et al and the right of Britain, France et al. It would keep in place the elite lot like the bankers and big corporations. And all this will keep the antagonism that is building up in the EU.

[Jack Knave]

We have plenty of unemployed here so we don't need low skilled immigrants. And by giving our indigenous people the jobs we would also save on the benefits they have to claim because of all those unnecessary uncontrolled immigrants.

Jack, the problem is that in many places the unskilled jobs have been offered to our unskilled unemployed and, for whatever reason, they have turned them down.  The unskilled jobs remain in situ, so we need to bring in unskilled workers who are willing to fill the vacancies.

They have been brought in because they can be paid a lot less and so push wages down, down to levels that the indigenous people can't live on and that are better off on benefits. It's a crime. We also know that some companies don't even advertise here but go straight to Eastern Europe to get this cheap/slave labour.

[Hope]

They have been brought in because they can be paid a lot less and so push wages down, down to levels that the indigenous people can't live on and that are better off on benefits. It's a crime. We also know that some companies don't even advertise here but go straight to Eastern Europe to get this cheap/slave labour.

iirc, the coalition planned to ban this last.  Not sure whether they ever did.  As far as wages are concerned, the wages paid to the foreign workers (many of whom are actually temporary, seasonal immigrants returning to their home countries at the end of the season) are rarely lower than what the indigenous folk had been offered previously.

[jeremyp]

Why don't you wait until the EU disintegrates before being smug, then you won't look like a twat.

I see you don't say 'if' so you must agree with me it is going to disintegrate.

Nothing lasts forever.  I'd be confident the EU will still be here when I die, hopefully with the UK in it.

In which case I look percipient and prescient and superior, as I was saying this last October if not before this!!!

Currently you look like a twat.  I thought I had made that clear.

[Jack Knave]

They have been brought in because they can be paid a lot less and so push wages down, down to levels that the indigenous people can't live on and that are better off on benefits. It's a crime. We also know that some companies don't even advertise here but go straight to Eastern Europe to get this cheap/slave labour.

iirc, the coalition planned to ban this last.  Not sure whether they ever did.  As far as wages are concerned, the wages paid to the foreign workers (many of whom are actually temporary, seasonal immigrants returning to their home countries at the end of the season) are rarely lower than what the indigenous folk had been offered previously.

The immigrants here are more than just seasonal workers, that sounds like Labour spin. As I said many firms don't bother advertising here but go straight to the cheap labour in E. Europe. Once here they are free to stay and many do hence the migration figures.

[Jack Knave]

Why don't you wait until the EU disintegrates before being smug, then you won't look like a twat.

I see you don't say 'if' so you must agree with me it is going to disintegrate.

Nothing lasts forever.  I'd be confident the EU will still be here when I die, hopefully with the UK in it.

Not in its present form and much reduced. EU 2.0 and an anaemic version.

You must be pretty much on the edge then of leaving your mortal coil!!! I give the EU a year or so. Hope you have made your funeral arrangements

[L.A.]

Why don't you wait until the EU disintegrates before being smug, then you won't look like a twat.

I see you don't say 'if' so you must agree with me it is going to disintegrate.

Nothing lasts forever.  I'd be confident the EU will still be here when I die, hopefully with the UK in it.

Not in its present form and much reduced. EU 2.0 and an anaemic version.

You must be pretty much on the edge then of leaving your mortal coil!!! I give the EU a year or so. Hope you have made your funeral arrangements

There are a lot of reasons why the EU needs to reform in a number of areas (and Britain is not alone in realising that) but there are also a lot of advantages in being a member of the worlds largest trading bloc.

There is a good chance that we will be able to vote to remain inside a reformed EU.

[Jack Knave]

Why don't you wait until the EU disintegrates before being smug, then you won't look like a twat.

I see you don't say 'if' so you must agree with me it is going to disintegrate.

Nothing lasts forever.  I'd be confident the EU will still be here when I die, hopefully with the UK in it.

Not in its present form and much reduced. EU 2.0 and an anaemic version.

You must be pretty much on the edge then of leaving your mortal coil!!! I give the EU a year or so. Hope you have made your funeral arrangements

There are a lot of reasons why the EU needs to reform in a number of areas (and Britain is not alone in realising that) but there are also a lot of advantages in being a member of the worlds largest trading bloc.

There is a good chance that we will be able to vote to remain inside a reformed EU.

Depends on what you see as needing reform? My version of reform would totally change the function of the EU and it would become a radically different animal.

As for what will be on offer at the referendum you seem to be aiming your hopes way too high.

[Nearly Sane]

Why don't you wait until the EU disintegrates before being smug, then you won't look like a twat.

I see you don't say 'if' so you must agree with me it is going to disintegrate.

Nothing lasts forever.  I'd be confident the EU will still be here when I die, hopefully with the UK in it.

Not in its present form and much reduced. EU 2.0 and an anaemic version.

You must be pretty much on the edge then of leaving your mortal coil!!! I give the EU a year or so. Hope you have made your funeral arrangements

There are a lot of reasons why the EU needs to reform in a number of areas (and Britain is not alone in realising that) but there are also a lot of advantages in being a member of the worlds largest trading bloc.

There is a good chance that we will be able to vote to remain inside a reformed EU.

Maybe there is but not because of this govt which is still unable to even begin to describe what reforms they actually want.

[jeremyp]

 Hope you have made your funeral arrangements

Why should I?  We all know that you are pretty clueless on economics and European politics.

[Jack Knave]

 Hope you have made your funeral arrangements

Why should I?  We all know that you are pretty clueless on economics and European politics.

That's two dangerous assumptions you are making there, Jeremy.

[Sassy]

The EU was a bad idea and the whispers are that they want to include 16-17 years olds on the electrol roll, so they can get us back in the EU for their cheap holidays.
The rule should be that they cannot vote on matters that took place before they can became of voting age.

[Nearly Sane]

The EU was a bad idea and the whispers are that they want to include 16-17 years olds on the electrol roll, so they can get us back in the EU for their cheap holidays.
The rule should be that they cannot vote on matters that took place before they can became of voting age.

Which would be entirely non democratic. Applied generally it would mean that no one who becomes of voting age can vote in any election if the incumbent is standing.

[jeremyp]

The EU was a bad idea

Now we are no longer in it, it seems obvious to anybody who is paying attention that it is a pretty good idea.

and the whispers are that they want to include 16-17 years olds on the electrol roll, so they can get us back in the EU for their cheap holidays.

That's one good reason for rejoining. There are others.

The rule should be that they cannot vote on matters that took place before they can became of voting age.

Rejoining the EU hasn't taken place yet. They would surely be allowed to vote on it, just as many people voted for or against Brexit even though they were not of voting age when the first referendum happened.

[Gordon]

The EU was a bad idea and the whispers are that they want to include 16-17 years olds on the electrol roll, so they can get us back in the EU for their cheap holidays.
The rule should be that they cannot vote on matters that took place before they can became of voting age.

Which would mean that parties that advanced a manifesto that involved repealing laws that were enacted before anyone entitled to vote today was born would be making invalid electoral promises.

Can't see that working, or that having a sub-divided electorate would in any sense be practical or, dare I say it, democratic.

[Outrider]

The EU was a bad idea and the whispers are that they want to include 16-17 years olds on the electrol roll, so they can get us back in the EU for their cheap holidays.
The rule should be that they cannot vote on matters that took place before they can became of voting age.

They wouldn't be, they'd be voting on things to happen in the future, that's how time works. It wouldn't undo the colossal clusterfuck that was Brexit, it would decide to change course and go back to cooperation and coordination with our closest allies - their future, which they have more of than we do.

O.

[Maeght]

The EU was a bad idea and the whispers are that they want to include 16-17 years olds on the electrol roll, so they can get us back in the EU for their cheap holidays.
The rule should be that they cannot vote on matters that took place before they can became of voting age.

Nonsense. As Outrider said, they wouldn't be voting on a matter that happened in the past anyway but on a matter of the present and future, which is much more relevant to the young.

[Aruntraveller]

I love having reminders that I live in a country where some people have willingly voted to make us all poorer. Yay.

[Gordon]

I looked at the OP of this thread - by dear old Elevenses, who was such a lovely man and who succumbed far too soon to his cancer. First reply was by Wiggy, another sad loss.