Author Topic: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title  (Read 1621 times)

Steve H

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« Last Edit: October 30, 2025, 07:22:53 PM by Steve H »
The world is fulfilled by being understood by man.
Giovanni Pico della Mirandola.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2025, 07:31:06 PM »
The nonce formerly known as Prince

Gordon

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2025, 07:39:40 PM »
Excellent - now we just need to get rid of the rest of them.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2025, 10:19:21 AM »
This popped up on my FB feed from Michael Rosen, excellent:

This post is not about Andrew.
This post is not even really about the Royal Family.
What I'm trying to do is get into the assumptions of what's being saId by commentators.
So here goes:
for the Royal Family (the British monarchy) to exist, there has to be a whole apparatus of commentary that ensures we accept that the British monarchy must exist. Mostly, it is massively successful. Most of the time, most people seem to think that it's a good idea. Some people are hugely enthusiastic about it. Some people like it. Some people think it's OK. Some people simply accept it.
When things are trogging along - appearances and highlights (weddings, funerals, etc) - the apparatus doesn't have to do very much other than just make sure that these events get coverage. It really is not much different from people like me or anyone else in the entertainment industry getting 'coverage'.
The interesting moments are when a crisis happens. At times like these the apparatus has to go into top gear to ensure that no matter what excrement is hurled at individuals, the brand (the 'Firm') stays. How do they do it?
One way is to ensure that whatever is going on in the crisis is portrayed as a soap opera ie that it's 'about' the personalities involved. ('He was good. She was bad.' Or vice versa 'She was good. He was bad.' etc etc, as if it's a film or novel). This way, we are shielded from seeing anything going on because of the power, the wealth and the privileged position. We're allowed to glimpse it - and outsiders, like Americans, are allowed to say it - but what can't be said is that an event like this crisis, can't be described as an inevitable, essential part of the craziness of having such an incredible piece of wealth and privilege at the heart of British society.
Another way is to have commentators on TV etc, nodding sagely about how this or that member of the Brand is behaving really well, in the midst of the chaos and scandal. So we get constructions that appear to be critical but are in fact about retrieving virtue from the wreckage. We get phrases like, 'the Royal Family may be tarnished but...' Along with words like 'damaged but...' What this does is appear to concede that something awful has happened but the institution is good and must be seen to be good. The 'but' in these sentences is all important. The 'but' is about how Royal x or Royal y has behaved really well. Or that Royal x was deeply troubled but in the end 'got it right'.
And one other way the  apparatus gets to work is to normalise the abnormal. I said that I wasn't going to refer to the specifics about this latest crisis, but in one sense I will. What has happened to Andrew (and here's me using his first name as if I know him! See how I got sucked into the Brand there!) is some kind of punishment and that now 'he's one of us'. 'He's just an ordinary citizen.' Is he? He seems to have been given a house on a private estate.  And this is presented as if he's out on his ear, on the streets and tomorrow he's standing outside a letting agency looking at the photos of one-bedroom flats in a run-down side of town, wondering who's going to help him out with his deposit, and who's going to write a reference for him, based on good behaviour during his previous tenancies. Lols.
So once again, the Brand is saved through descriptions of this exile into luxury as normal. We should agree and accept that's fine. I've forgotten the arrangement made for little fascist Duke of Windsor but I can remember how his complaints that he didn't have enough dosh did occasionally reach the ears of the British public. Didn't he have a rather nice flat in Paris or on the French Riviera (or both?)? Again, it's not the personal that I'm talking about here. It's the way the commentators structure our acceptance that this is how this Brand must behave.
In toto then, we are given a brilliantly managed bit of tutting. There's unease, concern, a lot of frowning, a bit of sighing, occasional condemnation but overall it's all OK, and it's the best we can have, the most desirable institution, the best way to organise the machinery of the state's ceremonial duties. In short we are blessed. Concerned but blessed.
Amen.
When he moves I watch him from behind
He turns and laughter flickers in his eyes
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2025, 11:25:44 AM »
A prince can make a belted knight,
A marquis, duke, and a' that;
But an honest man's aboon his might,
Gude faith, he maunna fa' that!
For a' that, and a' that,
Their dignities and a' that;
The pith o' sense, and pride o' worth,
Are higher rank than a' that.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2025, 11:34:11 AM by Nearly Sane »

Spud

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2025, 06:41:37 PM »
Innocent until proven guilty.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2025, 07:25:30 PM »
Innocent until proven guilty.
He's guilty about his lying about his contact with Epstein after Epstein had admitted prostituting minors.

Steve H

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2025, 08:34:37 PM »
Innocent until proven guilty.
[iPresumed[/i] innocent until proven guilty - not quite the same thing.
The world is fulfilled by being understood by man.
Giovanni Pico della Mirandola.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2025, 12:44:48 AM »
Marina Hyde on this


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/oct/31/firm-prince-andrew-windsor-king-prince-william

There is someone out there thinking of a version  of Kind Hearts and Coronets where they kill the 7 in line to the throne so Andy becomes king... ooh look that's me

Spud

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2025, 09:26:19 AM »
He's guilty about his lying about his contact with Epstein after Epstein had admitted prostituting minors.
Is that a crime though? The only crime he's accused of is the one with Giuffrey, with no evidence produced except a faked picture. Why hasn't Harry been stripped of his titles?

Nearly Sane

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2025, 09:31:30 AM »
Is that a crime though? The only crime he's accused of is the one with Giuffrey, with no evidence produced except a faked picture. Why hasn't Harry been stripped of his titles?
I didn't say it was a crime he hasn't been charged with anything , being a Royal isn't an ordinary job. As to Harry has he been lying about not supporting admitting rapists?


ETA and plenty people lose their jobs for morally dubious actions that are not illegal
« Last Edit: November 02, 2025, 12:37:44 PM by Nearly Sane »

Aruntraveller

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2025, 09:33:32 AM »
Quote
with no evidence produced except to prove it is a faked picture

FTFY
When he moves I watch him from behind
He turns and laughter flickers in his eyes
Intent and direct when he speaks, I watch his lips

Spud

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2025, 02:30:15 PM »
I didn't say it was a crime he hasn't been charged with anything , being a Royal isn't an ordinary job. As to Harry has he been lying about not supporting admitting rapists?


ETA and plenty people lose their jobs for morally dubious actions that are not illegal
I get that, and accept that he has to move out of his house and lose his titles. But if he hasn't done anything with Giuffrey, the clamour from the public is really disproportionate.

FTFY
See the photo above. It's evidence that proves it has been tampered with. There's much more, but that's the undeniable evidence, because there is no way his fingers can line up in the way the photo shows unless the forefinger has been elongated.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2025, 03:10:28 PM »
I get that, and accept that he has to move out of his house and lose his titles. But if he hasn't done anything with Giuffrey, the clamour from the public is really disproportionate.
See the photo above. It's evidence that proves it has been tampered with. There's much more, but that's the undeniable evidence, because there is no way his fingers can line up in the way the photo shows unless the forefinger has been elongated.
What is proportionate clamour for someone lying about their contact with an admitted underage rapist?

Aruntraveller

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2025, 03:53:53 PM »
Quote
See the photo above. It's evidence that proves it has been tampered with. There's much more, but that's the undeniable evidence, because there is no way his fingers can line up in the way the photo shows unless the forefinger has been elongated.

I know you've done all this before, so I don't want to prolong this part of the discussion. To put it succinctly, I don't believe the claim that it is fabricated.
When he moves I watch him from behind
He turns and laughter flickers in his eyes
Intent and direct when he speaks, I watch his lips

Spud

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2025, 06:23:32 PM »
What is proportionate clamour for someone lying about their contact with an admitted underage rapist?
The article you linked in #8 says he was asked if he had seen or spoken to Epstein after Epstein's conviction. He wasn't asked about emails, so technically he didn't lie. Maybe I've missed something?

Gordon

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2025, 07:47:39 PM »
The article you linked in #8 says he was asked if he had seen or spoken to Epstein after Epstein's conviction. He wasn't asked about emails, so technically he didn't lie. Maybe I've missed something?

I think you are missing that he is a smug and arrogant brat with an overactive sense of entitlement who arranged to pay twelve million pounds to someone he says he didn't know!

Mind you - I am enjoying the schadenfreude.   

Nearly Sane

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2025, 08:14:32 AM »
The article you linked in #8 says he was asked if he had seen or spoken to Epstein after Epstein's conviction. He wasn't asked about emails, so technically he didn't lie. Maybe I've missed something?
I didn't make any claim that that article said  anything about that. The 2010 meet is what I was referring to.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prince-andrew-epstein-title-windsor-mountbatten-queen-virginia-giuffre-scandal-b2856615.html

Spud

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2025, 09:20:39 AM »
I didn't make any claim that that article said  anything about that. The 2010 meet is what I was referring to.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prince-andrew-epstein-title-windsor-mountbatten-queen-virginia-giuffre-scandal-b2856615.html
I watched the relevant bit in the interview, and he definitely denied 'any contact' with Epstein after 2010. Maitlis clarified by asking if he saw him or spoke to him again. Iirc the leaked emails reveal that Epstein asked him to show someone around London. But there's no evidence that he ever saw him again. So I guess technically he did lie, but only concerning emails. He said he was concerned that he shouldn't be seen with him again, so in his mind apparently that's what he was refering to by 'no contact'.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2025, 09:33:28 AM »
We asked 100 people: Would you pay 12 million pounds to someone you don't know?

They said: Piss off, you're having a laugh.
When he moves I watch him from behind
He turns and laughter flickers in his eyes
Intent and direct when he speaks, I watch his lips

Nearly Sane

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2025, 10:02:13 AM »
I watched the relevant bit in the interview, and he definitely denied 'any contact' with Epstein after 2010. Maitlis clarified by asking if he saw him or spoke to him again. Iirc the leaked emails reveal that Epstein asked him to show someone around London. But there's no evidence that he ever saw him again. So I guess technically he did lie, but only concerning emails. He said he was concerned that he shouldn't be seen with him again, so in his mind apparently that's what he was refering to by 'no contact'.
Again you are denying a claim is didn't make. He lied about the extent of his contact with Epstein throughout the period. He say Epstein after he had been convicted of sex trafficking a minor.

Spud

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2025, 10:04:25 AM »
We asked 100 people: Would you pay 12 million pounds to someone you don't know?

They said: Piss off, you're having a laugh.
That she accepted the payoff could indicate that she knew she couldn't win the case.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2025, 10:06:55 AM by Spud »

Spud

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2025, 10:06:14 AM »
Again you are denying a claim is didn't make. He lied about the extent of his contact with Epstein throughout the period. He say Epstein after he had been convicted of sex trafficking a minor.
He admitted he saw Epstein in 2010, so where is the lie?

Gordon

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2025, 10:07:25 AM »
Sure. That she accepted the payoff could indicate that she knew she couldn't win the case.

Or perhaps she had 12 million good reasons to draw a line under the legal stuff.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Andrew to lose 'Prince' title
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2025, 10:11:56 AM »
He admitted he saw Epstein in 2010, so where is the lie?
After it was revealed and after he lied about the extent of his contact with Epstein. And after Eostein had been jailed for sex trafficking a minor.