Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Steve H on April 01, 2018, 03:58:12 PM

Title: Where are you politically?
Post by: Steve H on April 01, 2018, 03:58:12 PM
Me? Left of sensible.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Maeght on April 01, 2018, 04:05:21 PM
Has that got anything to do with Religion and Ethics?
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Steve H on April 01, 2018, 04:11:38 PM
This is the "Politics and Current Affairs" section of the forum, is it not? In any case, it arguably has something to do with ethics.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Anchorman on April 01, 2018, 04:53:25 PM
Scottish Nationalist.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Maeght on April 01, 2018, 04:56:23 PM
This is the "Politics and Current Affairs" section of the forum, is it not? In any case, it arguably has something to do with ethics.

It is. Just wondered why we have that section under the general heading of Religion and Ethics and what it had to do with those things.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Steve H on April 01, 2018, 05:05:06 PM
Scottish Nationalist.
Not party, you plonker - position on the left-right spectrum. (I'd be an SNP member if I lived in Scotland, fwiw.)
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Robbie on April 01, 2018, 05:27:17 PM
I voted medium left, sometimes think I'm centre left depending on issues. In between the two really.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Harrowby Hall on April 01, 2018, 05:50:21 PM
I think a single left-right measure is meaningless when trying to assess one's political position. An orthogonal dimension authoritarian-libertarian is also required.

I am left of centre and on the liberal side of centre.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 01, 2018, 06:34:36 PM
Which is covered here. I am according to this slightly left of centre, and about as libertarian as you can get. 


https://www.politicalcompass.org/test
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: floo on April 01, 2018, 06:38:59 PM
Not party, you plonker - position on the left-right spectrum. (I'd be an SNP member if I lived in Scotland, fwiw.)

Why do you have to be so rude?
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: jeremyp on April 01, 2018, 06:50:05 PM
It is. Just wondered why we have that section under the general heading of Religion and Ethics and what it had to do with those things.
People would talk about politics and current affairs anyway. Having a section for it allows people, like yourself, who are not interested in the topic to avoid it.

Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Gonnagle on April 01, 2018, 06:54:46 PM
Dear Steve,

You don't have Corbynite, I am a Corbynite, what category does that put me in, according to the press I am a Socialist or a Communist, or, OR, I am anti Judaism.

So lets see!! I am a wee bit left of centre, I voted Maggie in so I am a wee bit right of centre, I like the SNP, so I am a Tartan Tory, back to right of centre! I like the Green party, where are the Green party on your spectrum, probably left of centre.

Nah!! Sorry Steve can't choose from your 20th century definitions, I choose Jeremy Corbyn, a man who looks to future, a man who sits quite squarely in the 21st century, a century when we wake up a smell the capitalism.

Gonnagle.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Maeght on April 01, 2018, 06:56:56 PM
People would talk about politics and current affairs anyway. Having a section for it allows people, like yourself, who are not interested in the topic to avoid it.

That could apply to anything though. And who said I wasn't interested in politics?
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: jeremyp on April 01, 2018, 07:12:02 PM
And who said I wasn't interested in politics?
The fact that you are complaining about the P&CAS bosrd's existence.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Maeght on April 01, 2018, 07:17:32 PM
The fact that you are complaining about the P&CAS bosrd's existence.

I was complaining, I was wondering.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Stranger on April 01, 2018, 07:40:37 PM
I voted "Medium-left" because the policies I support tend to be scattered between Labour, Lib-Dems, and Green but the political compass (https://www.politicalcompass.org/test) site (linked by NS above) reckons I'm very left but also rather libertarian: -8.38, -7.03 (https://www.politicalcompass.org/yourpoliticalcompass?ec=-8.38&soc=-7.03).
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Anchorman on April 01, 2018, 07:50:46 PM
Not party, you plonker - position on the left-right spectrum. (I'd be an SNP member if I lived in Scotland, fwiw.)


Some of the SNP's policies are centre left, others liberal, a few radical - and culturally conservative.
To categorise them as 'left of centre' would therefore ber to limit them.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Robbie on April 01, 2018, 08:43:27 PM
Which is covered here. I am according to this slightly left of centre, and about as libertarian as you can get. 
https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Thanks for that link, my score:-
Economic Left/Right: -1.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.05

A couple of the questions I dithered over but most were straightforward.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Steve H on April 01, 2018, 09:26:20 PM
I voted "Medium-left" because the policies I support tend to be scattered between Labour, Lib-Dems, and Green but the political compass (https://www.politicalcompass.org/test) site (linked by NS above) reckons I'm very left but also rather libertarian: -8.38, -7.03 (https://www.politicalcompass.org/yourpoliticalcompass?ec=-8.38&soc=-7.03).
I've done that as well, and that's about where I was.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: jeremyp on April 02, 2018, 10:18:38 AM
I voted "Medium-left" because the policies I support tend to be scattered between Labour, Lib-Dems, and Green but the political compass (https://www.politicalcompass.org/test) site (linked by NS above) reckons I'm very left but also rather libertarian: -8.38, -7.03 (https://www.politicalcompass.org/yourpoliticalcompass?ec=-8.38&soc=-7.03).
-2.75 -4 for me.

Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Harrowby Hall on April 02, 2018, 01:02:30 PM
The questionnaire has placed me further to the lest that I would have put myself. I am close to Green (which I think is fair enough) but I would not consider myself to be a modern day Gandhi!

I suspect that the forced-choice design of the questionnaire has produced a value ( L-R:  -5,25;  A-L:  -3.95) which accentuates my own values rather than relflects them.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Grace of God on April 02, 2018, 02:36:50 PM
Me? Left of sensible.

the colour and the names will change but the waste of space we call politicians will always remain the same.. IMO...
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Steve H on April 02, 2018, 04:52:26 PM
the colour and the names will change but the waste of space we call politicians will always remain the same.. IMO...
That is excessively cynical. There are plenty of decent politicians - mainly on the left, of course.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Aruntraveller on April 03, 2018, 11:05:54 AM
I voted medium left and came out on the test thingie with L/R-6.75 & A/L-6.21.

About what I expected.

Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: jakswan on April 03, 2018, 03:37:38 PM
Dear Steve,

You don't have Corbynite, I am a Corbynite, what category does that put me in, according to the press I am a Socialist or a Communist, or, OR, I am anti Judaism.

So lets see!! I am a wee bit left of centre, I voted Maggie in so I am a wee bit right of centre, I like the SNP, so I am a Tartan Tory, back to right of centre! I like the Green party, where are the Green party on your spectrum, probably left of centre.

Maybe populist following with little political ideals of your own.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: jakswan on April 03, 2018, 03:42:58 PM
Centre, with swings on some issues to both sides, I'd nationalise the insolvency industry (utterly corrupt), I think having national investment bank is a good idea, so those are 'left', I think the private sector does have a role to play in NHS, so that is 'right'.

I could vote Labour if they were being honest, on economics their last manifesto amounted to a pack of lies.

Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: jakswan on April 03, 2018, 03:48:15 PM

Some of the SNP's policies are centre left, others liberal, a few radical - and culturally conservative.
To categorise them as 'left of centre' would therefore ber to limit them.

They are right wing but spin left, e.g. tax policy:-

Left, Labour 1p on income tax
Centre, Lib Dems 1p on income tax
Right of centre, SNP some raises on income tax.
Right, Tories decreases on income tax.

How many years did Sturgeon whinge about 'Tory austerity' but will not raise taxes to end it.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 03, 2018, 03:57:08 PM
They are right wing but spin left, e.g. tax policy:-

Left, Labour 1p on income tax
Centre, Lib Dems 1p on income tax
Right of centre, SNP some raises on income tax.
Right, Tories decreases on income tax.

How many years did Sturgeon whinge about 'Tory austerity' but will not raise taxes to end it.

So your 'will not' is disproved by your statement of some raises.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: jakswan on April 03, 2018, 04:41:34 PM
So your 'will not' is disproved by your statement of some raises.

To end 'Tory austerity' the SNP would have to raise taxes which would raise enough money to eradicate Tory cuts, some raises means and commitment to go no further means they will not end Tory austerity.

Do you agree that the SNP are a centre-right spin left party?
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 03, 2018, 04:57:44 PM
To end 'Tory austerity' the SNP would have to raise taxes which would raise enough money to eradicate Tory cuts, some raises means and commitment to go no further means they will not end Tory austerity.

Do you agree that the SNP are a centre-right spin left party?
They have raised taxes (which you said they will not do) , and tried to do it via a more redistributive, and therefore more 'left wing' process than the 1p on basic taxation. I think they are a centre left party, not very far left, but then we don't have any of those.

Note in addition to trying a redistributive element here, they've also allowed bigger rises,on thee highest poll tax bands to do the same thing.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: jakswan on April 03, 2018, 06:56:56 PM
They have raised taxes (which you said they will not do) , and tried to do it via a more redistributive, and therefore more 'left wing' process than the 1p on basic taxation. I think they are a centre left party, not very far left, but then we don't have any of those.

Fair enough I'll rephrase my original statement to:-

How many years did Sturgeon whinge about 'Tory austerity' but will not raise taxes high enough to end it.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 03, 2018, 07:08:32 PM
Fair enough I'll rephrase my original statement to:-

How many years did Sturgeon whinge about 'Tory austerity' but will not raise taxes high enough to end it.
You mean when the powers to do it in a redistributive fashion, I.e. not raise basic tax but adjust higher taxes, that would be none iirc since last year the allowance at the higher rate was kept lower, and this year we have adjustments in the tax rates.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: jakswan on April 04, 2018, 09:19:39 AM
You mean when the powers to do it in a redistributive fashion, I.e. not raise basic tax but adjust higher taxes, that would be none iirc since last year the allowance at the higher rate was kept lower, and this year we have adjustments in the tax rates.

So the SNP will be ending austerity by raising higher rate of taxes? Does everyone in Scotland know this? 
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 04, 2018, 09:24:06 AM
So the SNP will be ending austerity by raising higher rate of taxes? Does everyone in Scotland know this?



https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-most-scots-back-snp-s-tax-rise-plan-1-4664721
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: jakswan on April 05, 2018, 01:48:18 PM

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-most-scots-back-snp-s-tax-rise-plan-1-4664721

I was out of touch didn't realise these new bands were coming in but again we see Labour to the left of SNP on this issue wanting much more done to overcome austerity.

I think the SNP is a party at best of the centre, I'd say almost Blairte on the left - right spectrum, and that it likes to spin to the left, its good strategy, keeps everyone's, sometimes fawning, support. Its an opinion, that you disagree is very much up to you.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 05, 2018, 03:07:21 PM
I was out of touch didn't realise these new bands were coming in but again we see Labour to the left of SNP on this issue wanting much more done to overcome austerity.

I think the SNP is a party at best of the centre, I'd say almost Blairte on the left - right spectrum, and that it likes to spin to the left, its good strategy, keeps everyone's, sometimes fawning, support. Its an opinion, that you disagree is very much up to you.
Well we see that a Labour spokesperson portrayed their policy as more radical to be precise, but even if that is true in this case that's not useful in stating that the SNP are not being left of centre here. As I've already argued I think a redistributive policy such as the SNP here is inherently left wing. I know that you keep saying that you think the SNP are centre right, and I know that's your opinion, but that's just repetition - what you need is arguments. So given that your idea that they weren't using the taxation plans has been shown to be incorrect, and I note you ignored the not raising of the higher allowance last year, and the allowance to raise higher council tax payments at the same time, I'm not sure what you are basing your case on.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: jakswan on April 05, 2018, 05:49:30 PM
So given that your idea that they weren't using the taxation plans has been shown to be incorrect,

Nope that wasn't what i said.

How many years did Sturgeon whinge about 'Tory austerity' but will not raise taxes high enough to end it.

Quote
and I note you ignored the not raising of the higher allowance last year, and the allowance to raise higher council tax payments at the same time, I'm not sure what you are basing your case on.

Basing a case? Merely stating an opinion.
Title: Re: Where are you politically?
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 05, 2018, 05:57:11 PM
Nope that wasn't what i said.

How many years did Sturgeon whinge about 'Tory austerity' but will not raise taxes high enough to end it.

Basing a case? Merely stating an opinion.

To be fair, given you said they had changed taxes a bit but also were not willing to change taxes in the same post it's quite difficult to work out what you are trying to say. And that's without you actually not knowing with what was happening to taxes.

Already covered the question of why taxes weren't raised earlier, there was no possibility of making it redistributive because any move on one tax band had to be applied to them all.


If you simply want to post 'opinion' as something different from something you might want to justify, then I will wave au revoir to such 'discussions'.